[T10] Tape Stream Miroring incorporation into SPC-5 r11 feedback ... "shall direct"

Dennis Appleyard dennis.appleyard at oracle.com
Mon Aug 8 19:01:11 PDT 2016


Ralph,
I agree with your reasoning and solution.
Thanks,
Dennis

Ralph Weber wrote:
> Kevin,
>
> I am amenable to resolving your issue but I cannot see how to do it.
>
> In SPC-5 r11, the sentence to be changed reads:
>
> "... the copy manager shall and device server shall ..."
>
> If, as proposed, the first shall is removed, then the text will read:
>
> "... the copy manager and device server shall ..."
>
> which to my eye appears to be exactly the same is the r11 second 
> sentence in the paragraph, i.e.,
>
> "... the copy manager and device server shall ..."
>
> I cannot find the "the" that is supposed to be removed.
>
> All the best,
>
> .Ralph
>
>
> On 8/8/2016 11:56 AM, Kevin D Butt wrote:
>> Ralph,
>>
>> I support not using the word "direct" for the reasons you stated. 
>> Your proposed solution, "the copy manager and the device server 
>> shall" is slightly different from the last sentence which is, "the 
>> copy manager and device server" (i.e., the is only one "the" in use). 
>> I may be being a little finical, but using a "the" in both "the copy 
>> manager" and "the device server" seems to emphasize that they are two 
>> separate and distinct entities, whereas using "the copy manager and 
>> device server" does not as strongly indicate they are different and 
>> distinct. In fact, they may be the same.
>>
>> Maybe I am just being picky, but those are my thoughts. I think your 
>> intent would be met by using the exact phrase in the last sentence, 
>> "the copy manager and device server" instead of "the copy manager and 
>> the device server".
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kevin D. Butt
>> SCSI Architect, Tape Firmware, CAMSS
>> T10 Standards
>> MS 6TYA, 9000 S. Rita Rd., Tucson, AZ 85744
>> Tel: 520-799-5280
>> Fax: 520-799-2723 (T/L:321)
>> Email address: kdbutt at us.ibm.com
>> http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/storage/
>>
>>
>>
>> From:        Ralph Weber <roweber at ieee.org>
>> To:        Dennis Appleyard <dennis.appleyard at oracle.com>, Kevin D 
>> Butt/Tucson/IBM at IBMUS, curtis.ballard at hpe.com, Darryl Torske 
>> <darryl.torske at quantum.com>, "T10 org (t10 at t10.org)" <t10 at t10.org>
>> Date:        08/08/2016 02:57
>> Subject:        Re: Tape Stream Miroring incorporation into SPC-5 r11 
>> feedback ... "shall direct"
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding the discussion of "the copy manager shall and the device 
>> server shall" detailed below ...
>>
>> The change currently identified for inclusion in SPC-5 r12 is to 
>> delete the first shall.
>>
>> This particular change has several advantages.
>>
>>     * It is one of the changes proposed during the discussion of the
>>       comment reproduced below.
>>     * As a one-word change, it is the smallest possible change
>>       mentioned during the discussion.
>>     * The change seems to address the oldest outstanding comment,
>>       i.e., "something is missing".
>>     * The resulting text identically matches the last sentence in the
>>       cited paragraph, and that sentence generated no comments.
>>
>> The suggestion that the original text be reinstated deserves a 
>> response, and that response follows.
>>
>> There are substantial risks associated with asking any T10 editor to 
>> incorporate the first-ever usage of a particular word, and this was 
>> the initial problem with the phrase "the copy  manager shall direct 
>> the device server to".
>>
>> Today, the word "direct" is **never** used as a verb in SPC-5. The 
>> only SPC-5 usage of "direct" is in compound names, e.g., 
>> direct-access block device and direct access memory.
>>
>> A recourse to non-traditional phrasing typically masks an attempt to 
>> violate some long-standing precept of SCSI standards. With this alert 
>> in mind, finding the technical flaw in the original text becomes a 
>> cakewalk.
>>
>> Great effort has been expended throughout SAM-x and SPC-x to avoid 
>> defining the details of interactions between copy managers and device 
>> servers. For many years, the goal has been to achieve the greatest 
>> possible flexibility of copy manager product designs. Generally 
>> speaking, minimizing explicit requirements on inside-the-device 
>> interactions has been used to achieve this goal.
>>
>> This decision became the agreed practice after a half-day debate over 
>> whether commands flow through the device server to the copy manager 
>> or go directly to the copy manager. Eventually, it became obvious 
>> that the choices were silence on the subject or using the lunch hour 
>> to setup a mud wrestling pit between the head tables.
>>
>> As a defense against future letter ballot comments, therefore, the 
>> editor respectfully insists that the only way to restore the original 
>> wording is through a CAP-approved proposal which makes only that 
>> change. Should this event come to pass, the proposal's number (and 
>> the vote tally approving it) will be noted for inclusion in responses 
>> to the all-but-certain letter ballot comments on the sole use of the 
>> "direct" verb in SPC-5.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> .Ralph
>>
>>
>> On 8/3/2016 9:32 PM, Dennis Appleyard wrote:
>>
>> Kevin,
>>
>> Thanks for the review.
>> My comments are inline below.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> On 8/1/2016 1:09 PM, Kevin D Butt wrote:
>> Ralph, Dennis, and all,
>>
>> <snip>
>> *
>> Strictly incorporation issues:*
>> <snip>
>>
>> On page 281, fourth paragraph, "then the <<copy manager shall and 
>> device server shall>>establish a
>> deferred error condition with CHECK CONDITION status" I think there 
>> is something wrong with "copy manager shall and device server shall" 
>> The device server is the one to establish a deferred error. The copy 
>> manager has a requirement to terminate the copy operation which was 
>> just stated prior to the then, so what does the copy manager need to 
>> do here? I think, perhaps, the "copy manager shall and" should be 
>> deleted, but perhaps there was intent to have something here.
>> I suggest changing to "then the copy  manager shall direct the device 
>> server to establish a deferred error condition" This was the wording 
>> in the proposal.
>> *
>> Other issues:*
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.t10.org/pipermail/t10/attachments/20160808/240e6fb7/attachment.html>


More information about the T10 mailing list