MMC/Mt Fuji: Mandatory features for all peripheral devices type 5, and mark time out feature obsolete

Mark Overby MOverby at nvidia.com
Tue Jun 19 09:55:52 PDT 2007


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Mark Overby" <MOverby at nvidia.com>
*
Can you provide a reference in SATA that says that serial numbers are
required? SATA 2.6 makes no references to serial number or world wide name.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] On Behalf Of David Burg
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 11:51 AM
To: mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com; keiji_katata at post.pioneer.co.jp
Cc: T10 Reflector
Subject: RE: MMC/Mt Fuji: Mandatory features for all peripheral devices type
5, and mark time out feature obsolete
* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* David Burg <daviburg at windows.microsoft.com>
*
Hi Katata-san,
I have to remind that SATA is also an external and removable bus! External
SATA enclosure are available, and both SATA and eSATA connectors are
available. I assume that eventually PATA will disappear from new systems and
only SATA or newer buses will be available, thus all optical devices will be
SATA too.
Furthermore SATA specification already require the device to have unique
serial number (per Henry's e-mail several days ago), so isn't your CD/DVD-ROM
device complying to the SATA specification? (!?)
Best regards,
David Burg.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com [mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com] On
Behalf Of keiji_katata at post.pioneer.co.jp
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 10:54 PM
To: Tim Jones
Cc: T10 Reflector; mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
Subject: Re: MMC/Mt Fuji: Mandatory features for all peripheral devices type
5, and mark time out feature obsolete
Hi Tim,
You may think about your problem. I also think about my problem. My problem
is
that CD/DVD-ROM cannot have Flash-ROM to store its FW program due to the cost
issue. Now floppy drive and CD-ROM drive have similar price. If Microsoft and
you request to have Flash-ROM on CD/DVD-ROM, the drive manufacture may lose
its
business. As you know, the basic PC model of PC manufacture has CD/DVD-ROM
drive, so automatically PC manufacture may lose its business.
CD/DVD-ROM drive manufacture may build a few ten million drives in a few
months.
I think 10000 drives of less may be used in a USB housing. Why MS and you
request Serial number to all of the CD/DVD-ROM drive units? Why drive
manufacture must have Serial number in the ten million drives that is
required
only for 10000 drives?
OK, Microsoft USB Mouse, my wife and I love to use it. In a home, my wife and
I
use own USB mouse (one for her, one for me) via wireless LUN IP network using
USB-wireless box. So Microsoft shall implement Serial Number in all of their
USB
mouse? How about PS2 mouse? I can connect the PS2 mouse to USB-wireless box
using PS2-USB attachment.
May I confirm your requirement?
I think that the drive that has detachable I/F shall have some unique number
in
the system.
Is it correct?
Normal CD/DVD-ROM drive that has PATA and SATA is not designed to be
detachable
I/F. So user uses detachable I/F box with such drive to have a detachable I/F
drive. The box system shall have unique number.
Is it correct?
Best regards,
Keiji Katata
PIONEER CORP.
Tim Jones <tjmac at tolisgroup.com> on 2007/06/01 02:05:57
$B08 at h(J:  T10 Reflector <t10 at t10.org>
cc:    mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com, keiji_katata at post.pioneer.co.jp
bcc:
$B7oL>(J:  Re: MMC/Mt Fuji: Mandatory features for all peripheral devices
type 5,
       and mark time out feature obsolete
Katata-San,
I realize that TOLIS Group are not a voting member, but I would like
to weigh in on the LUN Serial portion of the Microsoft feature proposal.
In a hardware manufacturer's view, we can see where the lack of the
logical unit serial number is not an issue within environments of one
physical type 5 device.  However, as a software vendor, the tracking
of specific devices on the channel becomes difficult if we have
multiple instances of the same manufacturer's drive model in the
list.  By tracking a LUN Serial, we can more readily differentiate
between drives ensuring that multiple I/O operations are directed to
the appropriate physical device.  Additionally, since certain
processes for device attachment under IEEE-1394 and USB environments
can actually rearrange device order as devices are attached and
removed, such an additional identifier will assist software
developers on all platforms in properly identifying a specific drive.
 From a software point of view, we strongly agree with David's
proposal and request for this specific feature.
Tim
--
Tim Jones, CTO
TOLIS Group, Inc.
On May 30, 2007, at 7:34 PM, keiji_katata at post.pioneer.co.jp wrote:
> * From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
> * keiji_katata at post.pioneer.co.jp
> *
>
> CD/DVD-ROM drive that does not have flush can not have "17.4.2.46
> Feature 0108h:
> Logical unit Serial Number".
>
> I cannot understand why "Logical unit Serial Number" can improve
> the overall
> quality of optical device? Why it is not FW version/Manufacture ID?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Keiji Katata
> PIONEER CORP.
>
>
>
>
>
> David Burg <daviburg at windows.microsoft.com>@avc-pioneer.com on
> 2007/05/26
> 01:12:05
>
> mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com$B$KJV?.$7$F$/$@$5$$(J
>
> $BAw?.<T(J:     owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
>
>
>
>
> $B08 at h(J:  <mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com>
> cc:	 "T10 Reflector" <t10 at t10.org>
> bcc:
> $B7oL>(J:  RE: MMC/Mt Fuji: Mandatory features for all peripheral
> devices type 5,
>	 and mark time out feature obsolete
>
> Hi Katata-san,
>
> Given that there are already today features that are mandatory
> current (e.g.
> profile feature, core feature) regardless of the current profile, I
> believe this
> proposal is not changing the current Profile system. If you still
> feel it is
> changing it, please clarify why marking additional features as
> mandatorily
> current is a different from the features that are already marked so.
>
> I apologize if Microsoft's purpose wasn't made clear during the
> previous
> meeting. Microsoft's purpose is to improve the overall quality of
> optical device
> by making mandatory fundamental device functionality (technical
> change to the
> specification), plus clarify the specification from host
> implementation
> perspective by centralizing the list of mandatory device features
> independent
> from the media and the profile (editorial change to the
> specification).
>
> Best regards,
>
> David Burg.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com [mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at avc-
> pioneer.com] On
> Behalf Of keiji_katata at post.pioneer.co.jp
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 12:48 AM
> To: mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
> Cc: T10 Reflector
> Subject: Re: MMC/Mt Fuji: Mandatory features for all peripheral
> devices type 5,
> and mark time out feature obsolete
>
>
> Hi David,
>
> "vote on this small proposal"? As I said in May meeting, this is
> very large
> proposal that changes the Profile system of MMC/Fuji and CD/DVD-ROM
> drive
> hardware implementation.
> If necessary Microsoft should change its product logo requirement,
> should not
> break MMC standard.
>
> By the way, Microsoft does not explain any reason of its proposal.
> Could you
> provide us the necessity.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Keiji Katata
> PIONEER CORP.
>
>
>
>
>
> David Burg <daviburg at windows.microsoft.com>@avc-pioneer.com on
> 2007/05/23
> 03:14:10
> mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com$B$KJV?.$7$F$/$@$5$$(J
> $BAw?.<T(J:     owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
>
> $B08 at h(J: <mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com>, T10 Reflector <t10 at t10.org>
> cc:
> bcc:
> $B7oL>(J: MMC/Mt Fuji: Mandatory features for all peripheral
> devices type 5, and
> mark time out feature obsolete
>
> Hello,
>
> As follow-up from the last Mt Fuji meeting, Microsoft makes the
> attached
> proposal. As it is a tiny document (21 Kb), I didn$B!G(Jt upload
> it to the t10
> server.
>
> We would like to vote on this small proposal at the June Mt Fuji
> meeting.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David Burg.
> <Proposal from Microsoft for Mt Fuji 7 regarding mandatory features
> for all
> peripheral devices type 5.docx>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *
> * For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
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>
*
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
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