Question for RW-DL fast re-format

Takaharu Ai ai.takaharu at
Tue Jun 20 18:03:43 PDT 2006

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at, posted by:
* Takaharu Ai <ai.takaharu at>
Hello David,
One of the most important issues Pioneer proposed and Chair wanted to
gather the opinion of each company is that the Standard can prohibit the
Logical Unit from doing something during a command although it has not
been prohibited in the prior version of the standard.
According to Pioneer's proposal, although it is not the documented
proposal, it is prohibited from overwriting a part or whole of the user
data area by FORMAT UNIT command with Format type=00h, i.e. Full format,
for DVD-RW DL disc.
The reason they explained was that some of the software vendors wanted
to preserve the recorded user data through the format process. They said
that a software which can write and append data to the incomplete DVD-RW
disc. But another company requested that they need the method to convert
the incomplete state to complete state without no recorded data
So, Pioneer proposed that the Full format *SHALL* not overwrite data to
the recorded user data area.
But the current Mt.Fuji and MMC does not prohibit from doing that. So,
it is possible that the Logical Unit overwrite some of the user data
area for the security reason or other purpose. This behavior does not
impact to the execution time of the Full format process. We think
Pioneer's proposal deny this freedom of the implementation.
We understand Pioneer's concern for the execution time of the Full
format for DVD-RW DL disc, because the DVD-RW DL have a new feature
which makes the re-formatting function for the recorded disc very fast.
We think that function is very important and we believe no drive vendor want
to spoil this function. So no one implement the Full format very slow,
even if Mt.Fuji/MMC does not prohibit.
Our proposal is to add an recommendation that the drive should not
overwrite all the user data area where is requested to be formatted by
Full format of FORMAT UNIT command for DVD-RW DL disc during the
formatting process.
If a software vendor want make the incomplete state DVD-RW DL disc to
complete sate without no modification of the recorded user data through
the formatting process, we already have this function as Grow format.
Grow format is not the mandatory function for DVD-RW SL, but we can make
it a mandatory function for DVD-RW DL. This function can also be defined
as a fast re-format operation.
Best Regards,
Harry Ai
Panasonic AVC Networks Company
Osaka, Japan
---------------- Start of the original message ----------------
>From: David Burg <daviburg at>
>To: mtfuji5 at
>Cc: t10 at
>Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:22:12 -0700
>Subject: RE: Question for RW-DL fast re-format
>Thank you for this host consultation.
>We checked this issue at Microsoft optical platform storage and core
>file system services.
>Most important is we do not want to change existing format code
>behavior. Per consistency with DVD-RW SL, existing format code behavior
>shall be unchanged. Otherwise it would cause unexpected behavior in our
>software. If new format behavior is desired, it needs to be with a new
>format code or option.
>Also, we do not want vendor specific implementations. If there is a
>feature, please make it mandatory. If it is not possible, at least
>specify the feature *and the feature availability recognition*.
>Please let us know if further clarification is needed.
>Best regards,
>David Burg,
>Research Software Development Engineering Lead,
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-mtfuji5 at
>[mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at] On Behalf Of
>keiji_katata at
>Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 12:59 AM
>To: mtfuji5 at
>Cc: t10 at
>Subject: Question for RW-DL fast re-format
>Hello all,
>This is an action item of June meeting.
>Please send your selection and commnet by June 21 (if possible).
>Best regards,
>Keiji Katata
>(See attached file: Question fast re-format.pdf)
----------------- End of the original message -----------------
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