Fuji6 rev100 DRAFT

Henry Gabryjelski Henry.Gabryjelski at microsoft.com
Tue Dec 27 20:13:07 PST 2005


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Henry Gabryjelski" <Henry.Gabryjelski at microsoft.com>
*
Ai-san,

Thank you for continuing to discuss this. I think this is productive,
and will result in a best final implementation.  Regarding the scenario
you mention below, where a tray is ejected and the host sends a
START/STOP, FL bit set to 1, and requested format layer of non-zero --
this would mean the host is expecting to change a layer.  I think there
are two possible outcomes for this command on a hybrid-supporting
logical unit:

(A) Logical unit loads media and attempts to start on layer specified in
the START/STOP UNIT command.  There are issues regarding definition of
success -- how would host know proper layer is loaded?

(B) Logical unit reports error of "No media in device".  Since only host
software that detects hybrid support will set these bits, and a change
of layer request does not make sense unless media is loaded, there is
little problem.

Also, for Katata-san: I understood that the command description in a
fuji document is the implementation, while the model section is only to
be helpful.  Therefore, I think changing the Fuji model section is
editorial change, but changing the command section may not be?

.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
[mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com] On Behalf Of Takaharu Ai
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:14 PM
To: mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
Cc: t10 at t10.org
Subject: Re: Fuji6 rev100 DRAFT

Hello Henry,

>This closely matches the processing of other commands:  Since the
fields
>are (in reality) not defined for logical units without the feature,
>those LU can ignore the fields.  But those LU which have the feature
>acknowledge that these bits are defined.

The definition in the command section is based on the idea you mentioned
as above.

The reason why I proposed another idea to ignore the bit and field is to
make the behaviors of the drives which support hybrid disc and not be
the same.

We considered the case when the tray/disc is ejected. The drives, which
does not support this feature, load the tray/disc upon START STOP UNIT
command with FL bit set. The behavior of the drives which support this
feature should be the same as above.

To do so, I suggested that the drives ignore the FL bit and Desctination
field when and only when the Feture is not current, i.e. Hybrid disc is
not in the drive.


Best Regards,

Harry Ai
VEBU
Panasonic AVC Networks Company
Matsushita/Panasonic
Osaka, Japan


---------------- Start of the original message ----------------
>From: Henry Gabryjelski <Henry.Gabryjelski at microsoft.com>
>To: mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
>Cc: t10 at t10.org
>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 08:32:47 -0800
>Subject: RE: Fuji6 rev100 DRAFT
>
>Ai-san,
>
>I am concerned about the below suggestions for START STOP unit command
>processing as related to hybrid discs.  This method means that software
>which sends a layer change request (because previously it detected the
>logical unit supports the hybrid disc feature) cannot get an error when
>the command is a mistake.
>
>I think it is a better (and more easily tested) design to do the
>following:
>
>1) If hybrid disc feature is not _supported_ (i.e. does not exist in
>feature list), then the bits are ignored.
>2) If the hybrid disc feature is supported by the logical unit
>(regardless of current bit setting), then the bits are always confirmed
>by the logical unit.
>
>This closely matches the processing of other commands:  Since the
fields
>are (in reality) not defined for logical units without the feature,
>those LU can ignore the fields.  But those LU which have the feature
>acknowledge that these bits are defined.  Therefore, they cannot ignore
>the values.  To make the change as suggested creates a one-time
>exception to how fields in command blocks are interpreted, which I
think
>will cause long-term confusion.
>
>Therefore, I would like to urge that the model section 7.3 (p322) be
>modified to match the command section 17.43 (p709), in order to
simplify
>command processing and ability to test the command for the host side
>also.
>
>Thanks,
>.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
>[mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com] On Behalf Of Takaharu Ai
>Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:34 AM
>To: mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
>Cc: t10 at t10.org
>Subject: Re: Fuji6 rev100 DRAFT
>
>Hello Kohda-san and Mt.Fuji members,
>
>We have not finished reviewing whole the document but I would like to
>inform you the current comments on Mt.Fuji6 Rev1.0 Draft
>
>
>1. ASC/ASCQ mistakes
>In the description of Format Code=21h, 22h and 23h of SEND DISC
>STRUCTURE command, Mt.Fuji requests to set ASC/ASCQ to INVALID FIELD IN
>PARAMETER LIST for the CHECK CONDITION status when the parameters have
>already been set. But in this situation, the drive returns CHECK
>CONDITION status after checking the CDB and never receive any
>parameters.
>For this type of the condition, INVALID FIELD IN CDB is the correct
>ASC/ASCQ.
>
>Same mistake is also at SEND OPC INFORMATION command on page 699.
>Mt.Fuji requests to set INVALID FIELD IN PARAMETER LIST whenParameter
>List Length field is not set to zero. But it must be INVALID FIELD IN
>CDB.
>
>
>2. Inconsistency among Hybrid disc model and its command
>In the Hybrid disc model section 7.3 on page 322, the drive behavior
>upon receiving the START STOP UNIT command to request the change of
>Format-layer is as follows;
>    If the logical unit receives this command when the Hybrid disc
>    Feature is not current, the logical unit ignores the FL bit and the
>    Destination Format-layer # field, and consequently reacts as if the
>    command was the "LOAD" command, i.e. LoEj bit set to one and Start
>    bit set to one.
>But in START STOP UNIT command section 17.43 on page 709, it is as
>follows;
>    If the Hybrid disc Feature exists but is not current and either the
>    FL bit or the Destination Format-layer # field is not set to zero,
>    the logical unit shall terminate the command with CHECK CONDITION
>    status, 5/24/00 INVALID FIELD IN CDB.
>
>In my memory, we agreed the drive behavior and its commands in October
>meeting according to my proposal explained in the distributed document
>named "Command proposal for Hybrid disc-2.pdf". It said;
>    When Hybrid Disc Feature is not current, both Layer bit and
>    Destination Format-layer # field shall be ignored.
>The name of Layer bit was changed to FL bit in November meeting.
>So, the description in the Hybrid disc model section is correct and
>17.43
>must be changed to as follows;
>    If the Hybrid disc Feature exists but is not current, both the FL
>    bit and the Destination Format-layer # field shall be ignored and
>    treated as zero.
>This is the mistake on my final proposal documents.
>
>
>3. Event class to be reported when Format-layer is changed
>In the Hybrid disc model section 7.3 on page 323, Class 3 event is
>requested to be reported in the text and in the figure. But those must
>be Class 4, Media Event.
>This is also the mistake on my proposal documents.
>
>
>4. Editorial matching with INCITS (SBC2r16, SPC3r23)
>Followings may also be necessary to be matched to INCITS documents. But
>before that, I have some questions;
>  - Why do you try to do this at this moment without any consensus of
>    Mt.Fuji members?
>  - Which documents are referred? I refer the above versions', but it
is
>    only the draft, not the INCITS standards.
>
>FORMAT UNIT command
>  - LUN -> FMTPINFO bit, RTO_REQ bit and LINGLIST bit
>  - Format Code field -> DEFECT LIST FORMAT field
>  - Reserved -> Vendor specific
>  - Interleave Value -> Obsolete
>PREVENT/ALLOW MEDIUM REMOVAL command
>  - PREVENT/ALLOW MEDIUM REMOVAL command -> PREVENT ALLOW MEDIUM
REMOVAL
>    command
>READ (10)/(12) command
>  - LUN (Obsolete) field -> RDPROTECT field
>  - Reserved -> FUA_NV bit
>  - RelAdr -> Obsolete
>  - Reserved -> GROUP NUMBER field
>READ CAPACITY command
>  - RelAdr -> Obsolete
>START/STOP UNIT command
>  - START/STOP UNIT command -> START STOP UNIT command
>  - Codes for Power conditions -> START_VALID, ACTIVE, LU_CONTROL,
>    FORCE_IDEL_0 and FORCE_STANDBY_0 are added, Code=5h is Obsolete
>SYNCHRONIZR CACHE command
>  - SYNCHRONIZE CACHE command -> SYNCHRONIZE CACHE (10) command
>  - Reserved -> SYNC_NV bit
>  - RelAdr -> Obsolete
>  - Reserved -> GROUP NUMBER field
>VERIFY (10) command
>  - RelAdr -> Obsolete
>  - Reserved -> GROUP NUMBER
>WRITE (10)/(12) command
>  - LUN (Obsolete) field -> WRPROTECT field
>  - Reserved -> FUA_NV bit
>  - RelAdr -> Obsolete
>  - Reserved -> GROUP NUMBER
>WRITE AND VERIFY (10) command
>  - LUN (Obsolete) field -> WRPROTECT field
>  - RelAdr -> Obsolete
>  - Reserved -> GROUP NUMBER
>
>Read/Write Error Recovery mode page
>  - Read/Write Error Recovery -> Read-Write Error Recovery
>  - Correction Span field, Head Offset count field, Data Strobe Offset
>    Count field -> Obsolete
>Informational Exception Control mode page
>  - Reserved -> EBF
>Power Condition mode page
>  - Idle Timer -> IDLE CONDITION TIMER
>  - Standby Timer -> STANDBY CONDITION TIMER
>
>ASC/ASCQ
>  - 11/07 RE-SYNCHRONIZATION ERROR -> 11/07 DATA RE-SYNCHRONIZATION
>ERROR
>  - 3/14/00 RECORDED ENTITY NOT FOUND Write -> 8/14/00 RECORDED ENTITY
>    NOT FOUND Read
>  - We shall not define Sense Key for the ASC/ASCQ which is not
>    specified to be used for Mt.Fuji devices.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Harry Ai
>VEBU
>Panasonic AVC Networks Company
>Matsushita/Panasonic
>Osaka, Japan
>
>
>
>---------------- Start of the original message ----------------
>>From: takeshi_kohda at post.pioneer.co.jp
>>To: mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
>>Cc: t10 at t10.org
>>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 14:45:22 +0900
>>Subject: Fuji6 rev100 DRAFT
>>
>>Dear all,
>>
>>After the publication of rev 0.99, I have reviewed through the
document
>and
>>corrected some inconsistency between Fuji and MMC, SPC.
>>The updated document is available on the fuji ftp site.
>>
>>ftp://ftp.avc-pioneer.com/Mtfuji_6/Spec/Fuji6r100DRAFT_diff.pdf
>>or
>>ftp://ftp.avc-pioneer.com/Mtfuji_6/Spec/Fuji6r100DRAFT_diff.zip
>>
>>Please check the section 1.9 Change history and colored portions in
>this
>>document.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>---
>>Takeshi Kohda
>>
>
>----------------- End of the original message -----------------

----------------- End of the original message -----------------


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