August Mt. Fuji meeting -- MSFT action item results

Henry Gabryjelski henrygab at
Tue Aug 30 14:19:06 PDT 2005

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at, posted by:
* "Henry Gabryjelski" <henrygab at>
I have received a few common questions on the proposal, and would like
to share the results on the reflector.  The questions were related to
example views of the file system on a hybrid disc.  Please also accept
the following illustrative example of a hybrid DVD-Video / Blue-Laser
media.  I will restrict the blue-laser layer to 12GB for this example:

Blue Layer |__UDF250FS_______MOVIE_______|
LBA:       9GB                         21GB

DVD-Video  |__UDF102FS_______MOVIE_______|
LBA:       0                             x (x < 9GB)
(The DVD-Video layer can use the identical glass master as a
DVD-Video-only disc.)

The example file system view for this media in a legacy drive:

   +-- AUDIO_TS                    --\
   |                                 |
   +-- VIDEO_TS                      | Contents on the
   |   |                             | DVD-Video layer
   |   VIDEO_TS.IFO                  | (DVD-Video only
   |   VIDEO_TS.VOB                  |  version of the
   |   VIDEO_TS.BUP                  |  autorun files)
   |                                 |
   +-- autorun.inf                   |
   +-- autorun.exe                 --/

The example file system view for this media in a new drive:

   +-- AUDIO_TS                    --\
   |                                 |
   +-- VIDEO_TS                      | Contents on the
   |   |                             | DVD-Video layer
   |   VIDEO_TS.IFO                  | (DVD-Video only
   |   VIDEO_TS.VOB                  |  version of the
   |   VIDEO_TS.BUP                  |  autorun files
   |                                 |  are not in FS)
   |                               --/
   +-- NEW_ITEMS                   --\
   |   |                             |
   |   VIDEO001.MP4                  | Contents on the
   |   VIDEO002.VC1                  | blue laser layer
   |   MUSIC001.MP3                  | (New combination
   |   MUSIC002.WMA                  |  autorun files
   |                                 |  from the blue
   +-- autorun.inf                   |  layer are shown)
   +-- autorun.exe                 --/

So, when a user inserts this disc, they see all the files from both
layers.  Only when playback of the legacy content is attempted, or the
VIDEO_TS or AUDIO_TS directories are entered, would the drive switch to
the DVD-Video layer.  For all other common usage, the blue-laser layer
is accessed exclusively.  In addition, the above example shows that some
files (autorun.inf, autorun.exe) are layer-specific content.  This can
easily be done by modifying the file system on the blue laser layer to
refer to the new files instead of the old, and may be used to show
different autorun content for each drive type(*).

As always, Microsoft welcomes comments and questions.

Thank you,

(*) This method is decided upon during creation of the blue-laser
master.  In fact, any or all of the files on the previous layers can be
hidden using this method.  This is a decision that can be made
differently for each master as the customer requires.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-mtfuji5 at
[mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at] On Behalf Of Henry Gabryjelski
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 11:24 AM
To: mtfuji5 at
Cc: t10 at; billmc at; endlcom at
Subject: August Mt. Fuji meeting -- MSFT action item results

Dear all,

This mail is to resolve the action items that MSFT has taken from the
August meeting.  These action items were to look into when hardware
resets would occur in MSFT operating systems, and Pioneer request for
clear requirements and limitations of the MSFT proposal.

Microsoft has looked into the causes of hardware resets, and the
following is our partial result:

For PATA controllers which implement the sff8038i (all), the host cannot
program the controller to perform a hardware reset.  Therefore, only a
power condition (hibernation, sleep, etc.) will cause this condition.
Therefore, PATA should not be a significant problem for the layer-switch
command proposal.  On SATA, a software reset has no guarantee of even
being seen by the logical unit.  Therefore, a hardware reset is used for
SATA on command timeouts and other errors.

The use of harware resets for SATA drives will have significant problems
should the layer-switch proposal be accepted, as any command could
result in the reset and the drive changing to a default layer
unexpectedly.  With the addition of both IOCTL_SCSI_PASS_THROUGH and
IOCTL_ATA_PASS_THROUGH (as well as 3rd party pass-through mechanisms),
it becomes very difficult to properly handle this case in the software.

For the Microsoft hybrid disc proposal, here is a partial list of the
requirements and limitations as requested by Pioneer towards the end of
the meeting (we ran out of time):

Media Specification:
* Non-zero start LBA/LSN requirement
  - Detection method is required.
  - v1.0 may use BCA?  Maybe use reserved bits in system lead-in for
  - Suggest fixed capacity for legacy layers, such as 9GB, for easier

File System Specification:
* No changes for FS specification for highest layers
* DVD-Video layer requires minor alignment requirements
  - These alignment requirements do not violate 1.02 requirements
  - Metadata File and Metadata Mirror File extent must align on 32
sector boundary (Partition Map Alignment Unit, UDF, 2.2.10)
  - Physical Partition Starting Location must align on ECC packet length
(must use highest packet length for all layers -- 32 is "safe" option)
  - Requires slight, backwards-compatible modifications to mastering of
DVD-Video file system

Drive Firmware Requirements:
* Support non-zero LSN for blue laser layer
* LBA->PSN translation must consider layer
* Read/Write commands must consider layers when validating LBA range
* Return of 02/04/07 error when changing of layer is implicitly
requested by command

File system implementation requirements:
* Resulting discs are compliant to UDF 2.50 (or UDF 1.02 if in legacy
* Ensure support for CSS IOCTLs is enabled for UDF 2.50
  - Some DVD-Video players don't use the FS, but some do
  - Maybe Windows only?
* Optimizations possible due to layer information being available

OS requirements:
* None.  Resulting discs use identical commands for all access.

Application requirements:
* None for legacy playback.  Support of CSS IOCTLs through FS is
enabled, and VIDEO_TS.VOB files exist as expected.  Normal FS
read/writes work as always.
* Of course, AACS-enabled players required for high-def content.

Restrictions in this proposal:
* Maximum one writable layer
  - No writable layers suggested as default (DVD-Video + blue laser)
  - One writable format-layer possible for blue laser layer
  - -R suggested for maximum legacy compatibility
  - -RW possible, but may have legacy software issues
* Host must deal with access to multiple format-layers
  - Playback software already minimizes other access while playing video
  - Good FS layout can minimize "automatic" (i.e. explorer) interaction
with other layers

Thank you,

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-mtfuji5 at
[mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at] On Behalf Of
takeshi_kohda at
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:25 AM
To: mtfuji5 at
Cc: t10 at; billmc at; endlcom at
Subject: August Mt. Fuji meeting draft minutes posted

Dear all,

August Mt.Fuji meeting draft minutes have been posted on the fuji ftp

July Mt.Fuji meeting approved minutes have also been posted as:

Kind Regards,
Takeshi Kohda

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