Read ATIP response / Orange Book

Bill McFerrin billmc at
Mon Mar 15 00:01:29 PST 2004

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at, posted by:
* "Bill McFerrin" <billmc at>
Mr Burg and others,
Orange Book information is licensed material.  It is important to disclose
this information only with permission from the licensor.  Material that I am
permitted to disclose is based upon the lastest versons of the various
shades of Orange.

The text in Mt Fuji wrt RW disc sub-type came from the same text in MMC-2.
Given the possibility of new sub-types being defined, we chose to
future-proof MMC-4 by describing the purpose of the sub-type field but
referring to OB for detailed value information.

Bill McFerrin

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-mtfuji5 at
[mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at]On Behalf Of David Burg
Sent: Saturday, 06 March, 2004 6:27 AM
To: Fuji Reflector
Subject: Read ATIP response / Orange Book


MMC draft, Mt Fuji draft and Orange Book speak of (DD)CD-R/W ATIP, but the
definition in MMC / Mt Fuji drafts does not cover all the Orange Book cases.
Maybe it would be possible to extend and clarify these definitions?

More exactly:

a) Encoded Reference Speed possible values are not described in MMC draft.
In Mt Fuji draft, they are defined as "00h = reserved. 01h -2X recording."
This is the information for 1-2x and 1-4x CD-RW, but does not fit for High
Speed, Ultra Speed and Ultra Speed Plus CD-RW as defined in Orange Book. For
CD-R also different values are possible, and (defined in MMC draft) even for
DDCD-R/RW. A table centralizing all these values would be welcome.

b) Disc Sub Type. MMC says "CD-R has no subtypes, so this field is zeros.".
But old revision of Orange Book* do define Disc Sub Type for CD-R (and
testing with today's device and CD-R media I see non-zero Disc Sub Type
returned by the device). For CD-RW, MMC says "Disc Sub-Type specifies one of
8 possible CD-RW sub-types of the Disc Type." where Mt Fuji defines 000 as
"Standard Speed CD-RW" and 001 as "High Speed CD-RW". But values for Ultra
Speed and Ultra Speed Plus are missing.

c) Orange book provides mandatory values for A1 Valid, A2 Valid, A3 Valid
bits depending of the media type. This information is not available in MMC /
Mt Fuji drafts.

d) A1..A3 Values are described as "depend on an applicable Orange Book." It
would be nice to have the exact definition per media type. For instance for
CD-RW it would allow to decrypt the supported speed range and check versus
recorder supported speed to eventually conclude to possible speed

Additionally, latest MMC draft has a bit different definition compared to
latest Mt Fuji draft:

1) MMC draft describes what matches to the Special Information 1, 2 and 3,
Mt Fuji does not.

2) MMC draft describes a Special Information 4 after A3 Values and reserved
byte 23 - such special information is not in Table 371 of Mt Fuji

3) Bit 7 of byte 0 of the ATIP Descriptor is a mandatory 1b in Mt Fuji. In
MMC, it is part of the Indicative Target Writing Power field.

4) Bit 3 of byte 0 of the ATIP Descriptor is defined as (DDCD) boolean, in
Mt Fuji it is reserved.

5) High capacity CD-R information related to Special Information 3 is
explained in MMC draft but not in Mt Fuji draft.

Best regards,

David Burg

*: Sorry to not give the exact book part and revision, I do not have the
book right now. But I can provide the exact information next week if it is

David Burg
Software Development,
InCD Project Leader

Ahead Software AG     phone: +49 (0)7248 911 862 (direct line)
Im Stoeckmaedle 18    fax:   +49 (0)7248 911 888
76307 Karlsbad        email: dburg at

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