Draft minutes of SCSI CAP Working Group Meeting -- January 15, 2003

John Lohmeyer lohmeyer at t10.org
Thu Jan 16 15:10:43 PST 2003


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <lohmeyer at t10.org>
*

Accredited Standards Committee*
InterNational Committee for Information Technology Standards (INCITS)

                                                   Doc. No.: T10/03-047r0
                                                       Date: January 16, 2003
                                                   Reply to: John Lohmeyer

To:       T10 Membership
From:     Ralph Weber and John Lohmeyer
Subject:  SCSI Commands, Architecture,           January 15, 2003
          Portland, OR

Agenda
1.     Opening Remarks
2.     Approval of Agenda
3.     Attendance and Membership
4.     SCSI Architecture Model Topics
4.1      SAM-3 Data-In Size and Sense Data Size for Execute Command (02-404r1)
[Elliott]
4.2      SAM-3 SPC-3 Maximum and first burst size and protocol services
(02-403r1) [Elliott]
4.3      SAM-3, SPC-3, and SBC power conditions proposal (02-464r1) [Evans]
4.4      SAM-3 SPC-3 SAS FCP-3 SRP-2 Device names and VPD data (02-419r1)
[Elliott]
4.5      SAM-3 Hard reset and multiple port devices (02-473r1) [Elliott]
4.6      SAM-3 Logical Unit Names (02-488r1) [Penokie]
4.7      SAM-3 Single level LUN formats (03-032r0) [Elliott]
4.8      E-mail SAM-3 topic [Penokie]
5.     Command Set Topics
5.1      Persistent Reserve Out Functionality for Reserve/Release Replacement
(02-141r1) [Peterson]
5.2      Ordered SCSI proposal (02-283r0) [Peterson]
5.3      SSC-2:Obsolete Medium Partition mode pages(2-4) (03-031r0) [Peterson]
5.4      SPC-3: Target Mode Pages WLUN (02-460r0) [Penokie]
5.5      Further Work on Migration to Persistent Reservations (02-483r0)
[Cummings]
5.6      SES-2 Array Status element bypass status enhancement (03-029r0)
[Elliott]
5.7      SBC-2 Block Limits mode page (03-028r1) [Elliott]
5.8      SBC-2 Enhanced Defect Reporting Method (Reflector message 2002/12/18)
[Katata/Mt. Fuji]
5.9      SBC-2 VERIFY (10) Streaming Bit (Reflector message 2002/12/18)
[Katata/Mt. Fuji]
5.10     Remove AEN from SPC-3 (03-051r0) [Weber]
5.11     E-mail SPC-3 topics [Penokie]
5.12     RBC Defect Report (03-021r0) [Atkinson]
5.13     Vender Identification Assignment (03-060r1) [Penokie]
6.     SCSI Protocol Topics
6.1      SRP-2 Immediate Data Proposal (03-057r0) [Simpson]
7.     Old Business
8.     New Business
8.1      Project Proposal for SSC-3 (03-030r1) [Peterson]
8.2      Remove SPI from SAM-3 and SPC-3 (03-002r3) [Weber]
8.3      Remove TARGET RESET from SAM-3 and SPC-3 (03-001r0) [Weber]
9.     Review of Documents
9.1      SRP-2 Review (SRP-2) [Simpson]
10.    Review of Recommendations to the Plenary
11.    Meeting Schedule
12.    Adjournment


Results of Meeting

1.     Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer, the T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m.,
Wednesday January 15, 2003. He thanked Cris Simpson of Intel for hosting the
meeting.

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.


2.     Approval of Agenda

The draft agenda was approved with the following changes:

4.8      E-mail SAM-3 topic [Penokie]
5.11     E-mail SPC-3 topics [Penokie]
5.12     RBC Defect Report (03-021r0) [Atkinson]
6.1      SRP-2 Immediate Data Proposal (03-057r0) [Simpson]

The following agenda items were added/revised during the course of the
meeting:

5.13     Vender Identification Assignment (03-060r1) [Penokie]


3.     Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for T10 membership. Working group meetings are open to any person
or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of work. The
following people attended the meeting:

         Name          S        Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Ron Roberts        P  Adaptec, Inc.             Ron_Roberts at adaptec.com
Mr. Robert Snively     P  Brocade Comm. Systems,    rsnively at brocade.com
                          Inc.
Mr. David Peterson     P  Cisco Systems, Inc.       dap at cisco.com
Mr. John Gaittens      V  CRN                       john_gaittens at logitech.
                                                    com
Mr. Robert Griswold    P  Crossroads Systems, Inc.  rgriswold at crossroads.com
Mr. Kevin Marks        P  Dell Computer Corp.       kevin_marks at dell.com
Mr. Gary S. Robinson   P  EMC Corp.                 robinson_gary at emc.com
Mr. Robert H. Nixon    P  Emulex                    bob.nixon at emulex.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber     P  ENDL Texas                roweber at acm.org
Mr. Mike Fitzpatrick   P  Fujitsu                   mfitzpatrick at fcpa.
                                                    fujitsu.com
Mr. Nathan Hastad      P  General Dynamics          nathan.hastad at gd-ais.com
Mr. George O. Penokie  P  IBM / Tivoli Systems      gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. Cris Simpson       P  Intel Corp.               cris.simpson at intel.com
Mr. Robert Sheffield   A  Intel Corp.               robert.l.sheffield at intel.
                                                    com
Mr. James A. Jones     V  Intel Corp.               james.a.jones at intel.com
Mr. Dennis Moore       P  KnowledgeTek, Inc.        dmoore at ix.netcom.com
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  LSI Logic Corp.           lohmeyer at t10.org
Mr. Mark Evans         P  Maxtor Corp.              mark_evans at maxtor.com
Mr. Rob Haydt          A  Microsoft Corp.           robhay at microsoft.com
Mr. James R. (Bob)     P  Network Appliance Inc.    bob at netapp.com
Davis
Mr. Bill Galloway      P  Pivot3, Inc.              billg at pivot3.com
Mr. Keith W. Parker    V  PLOSkit, Inc.             Keith_Parker at PLOSkit.com
Mr. Paul Entzel        P  Quantum Corp.             paul.entzel at quantum.com
Mr. Gerald Houlder     P  Seagate Technology        gerry.houlder at seagate.com
Mr. Vit Novak          P  Sun Microsystems, Inc.    vit.novak at sun.com
Mr. Robert Kando       V  Texas Instruments         Robert.Kando at ti.com
Mr. Roger Cummings     P  Veritas Software          roger.cummings at veritas.
                                                    com
Mr. Kenneth Hirata     P  Vixel Corp.               Ken.Hirata at Vixel.com

28 People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
             A,A# -  Alternate
             AV   -  Advisory Member
             L    -  Liaison
             V    -  Visitor


4.     SCSI Architecture Model Topics

4.1    SAM-3 Data-In Size and Sense Data Size for Execute Command (02-404r1)
[Elliott]

Rob Elliott presented a proposal to add a sense data size parameter to the
Execute Command function prototype model (02-404r1). The group requested minor
changes and Rob agreed to prepare a revised proposal.

Rob Elliott moved that 02-404r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended for inclusion
in SAM-3. Cris Simpson seconded the motion. In the absence of any objections,
the motion passed unanimously.

4.2    SAM-3 SPC-3 Maximum and first burst size and protocol services (02-403r1)
[Elliott]

Rob Elliott presented a proposal to apply first burst size and maximum burst
size to SAM-3 data transfer function prototypes (02-403r1). The group
requested changes in the proposal and Rob agreed to prepare a revised
proposal.

Rob Elliott moved that 02-403r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended for inclusion
in SAM-3 and SPC-3. Mark Evans seconded the motion. In the absence of any
objections, the motion passed unanimously.

4.3    SAM-3, SPC-3, and SBC power conditions proposal (02-464r1) [Evans]

Mark Evans presented a proposal to make the power conditions consistent
between SAM-3, SPC-3, and SBC-2 (02-464r1). The group asked for several
substantial changes and Mark agreed to prepare a new revision for
consideration at the next meeting.

4.4    SAM-3 SPC-3 SAS FCP-3 SRP-2 Device names and VPD data (02-419r1)
[Elliott]

Rob Elliott presented a proposal to extend the definitions of identifiers and
names in the Device Identification VPD page (02-419r1). The group requested
substantial changes and Rob agreed to prepare a new revision for consideration
at the next meeting.

4.5    SAM-3 Hard reset and multiple port devices (02-473r1) [Elliott]

Rob Elliott reviewed an issue concerning the effects of a hard reset
(02-473r1). The group requested that an occurrence of 'it' be replaced with
specific text. The group discussed the affects of hard resets on other target
ports.

Rob Elliott moved that 02-473r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended for inclusion
in SAM-3. Mark Evans seconded the motion. In the absence of any objections,
the motion passed unanimously.

4.6    SAM-3 Logical Unit Names (02-488r1) [Penokie]

George Penokie presented proposal to move the model for well known logical
units from SPC-3 to SAM-3 and to define the logical unit name object in SAM-3
(02-448r0). The group requested minor changes and George agreed to prepare a
new revision.

Mark Evans moved that 02-488r1 (r0 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in
SAM-3 and SPC-3. George Penokie seconded the motion. In the absence of any
objections, the motion passed unanimously.

4.7    SAM-3 Single level LUN formats (03-032r0) [Elliott]

Rob Elliott presented a proposal to clarify the SAM-3 description of single
level logical unit number formats (03-032r0). The group requested minor
changes and Rob agreed to prepare a revised proposal.

Rob Elliott moved that 03-032r1 (r0 as revised) be recommended for inclusion
in SAM-3. Bob Nixon seconded the motion. In the absence of any objections, the
motion passed unanimously.

4.8    E-mail SAM-3 topic [Penokie]

George Penokie presented an issue with SAM-3 requiring byte alignment in
transfer operations. He noted that most if not all of the serial protocols
violate the SAM-3 statement. The group agreed to discuss the change as part of
item 8.2.

5.     Command Set Topics

5.1    Persistent Reserve Out Functionality for Reserve/Release Replacement
(02-141r1) [Peterson]

Dave Peterson requested that this item be deferred until the March 2003
meeting.

5.2    Ordered SCSI proposal (02-283r0) [Peterson]

Dave Peterson requested that this item be deferred until the March 2003
meeting.

5.3    SSC-2:Obsolete Medium Partition mode pages(2-4) (03-031r0) [Peterson]

Dave Peterson presented a proposal from the SSC-2 working group to obsolete
three out of the four Medium Partition mode pages (03-031r0). Even with the
single remaining mode page up to 64 partitions can be supported. Dave reported
that the SSC-2 working group believes that 64 partitions is sufficient.

Gerry Houlder moved that 03-031r0 be recommended for inclusion in SSC-2 and
SPC-3. Dave Peterson seconded the motion. In the absence of any objections,
the motion passed unanimously.

5.4    SPC-3: Target Mode Pages WLUN (02-460r0) [Penokie]

George Penokie reviewed the issues with the proposal to add a well known
logical unit to access mode pages (02-460r0). He noted that because there is
no way to identify other ports, there is no way to manage the mode pages for
other ports. However, he expressed the belief that a well known logical unit
to manage port mode pages would eliminate concerns over which regular logical
unit should be used.

Concerns were raised about accidental changes in mode pages via this logical
unit due to the lack of either access controls or persistent reservations on
the well known logical unit. It was suggested that persistent reservations be
added to the commands for the proposed well known logical unit, but George
rejected the suggestion.

The group requested other minor changes in the proposal.

George Penokie moved that 02-460r1 (r0 as revised) be recommended for
inclusion in SPC-3. Cris Simpson seconded the motion. The motion failed on a
vote of 3:5:15.

5.5    Further Work on Migration to Persistent Reservations (02-483r0)
[Cummings]

Roger Cummings reported that no new document was available but that new ideas
have been offered in telephone conversations. He stated that there has not
been time to formalize the new ideas in the proposal.

At the request of the group, Roger reviewed the status of the effort.

Roger closed by asking anybody with ideas to contact him.

5.6    SES-2 Array Status element bypass status enhancement (03-029r0) [Elliott]

Rob Elliott presented a proposal to enhance the bypass status capability in
the Array Status element (03-029r0).

Rob Elliot moved that 03-029r0 be recommended for inclusion in SES-2. Gerry
Houlder seconded the motion. In the absence of any objections, the motion
passed unanimously.

5.7    SBC-2 Block Limits mode page (03-028r1) [Elliott]

Rob Elliott presented a proposal to define a VPD page to return information
about optimal and maximum transfer lengths as well as optimal transfer length
granularity (03-028r1). The group discussed the definitions of the fields in
the proposed VPD page and suggested some changes.

Rob Elliott moved that 03-028r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended for inclusion
in SPC-3 and SBC-2. Bill Galloway seconded the motion. In the absence of any
objections, the motion passed unanimously.

5.8    SBC-2 Enhanced Defect Reporting Method (Reflector message 2002/12/18)
[Katata/Mt. Fuji]

Keiji Katata presented a proposal for software-based defect management in the
SBC-2 that would be accomplished via changes in the Read/Write Error Recovery
mode page and the VERIFY(10) command.

Concerns were raised about duplication of the feature provided by the READ
DEFECT DATA and FORMAT commands.

The group also was confused about whether the proposal intends to modify SBC-2
or MMC-4. Apparently, coordination of the two was a concern so that one bit
would not end up having different meanings in the two standards.

The group discussed the mechanics of the proposed changes and whether they
might be applicable to SBC-2.

The group agreed to have SBC-2 mark as restricted the Read/Write Error
Recovery and command bits used by MMC-4 for this feature. There will be no
SBC-2 changes until the MMC-4 group informs this working group exactly what
changes have been approved for MMC-4.

5.9    SBC-2 VERIFY (10) Streaming Bit (Reflector message 2002/12/18)
[Katata/Mt. Fuji]

This topic was covered under item 5.8.

5.10   Remove AEN from SPC-3 (03-051r0) [Weber]

Ralph Weber presented a proposal to follow through on the November decision to
remove AER from SAM-3 by removing AEN from SPC-3. He noted that changes are
required in the abstract and scope because support for AEN is the only
justification for the presence of the Processor command set in SPC-3.

He described the two most substantial changes concern the Control mode page
(where AER features are enabled) and removal of the Processor command set from
SPC-3 because the justification for its presence is gone.

Concerns were raised about where the Processor command set will be documented
and Ralph proposed that the Processor command set clauses in SPC-2 be that
documentation with an option for starting a Processor command set standards
project should there be a desire to modify what appears in SPC-2.

Concerns were raised regarding the Last n Deferred Errors or Asynchronous
Events log page clause that was unchanged by 03-051r0. After some discussion,
the group agreed that no changes are necessary.

Ralph Weber moved that 03-051r0 be recommended for inclusion in SPC-3. Bill
Galloway seconded the motion. The motion passed on a vote of 21:0:1.

5.11   E-mail SPC-3 topics [Penokie]

George Penokie reviewed a collection of proposed SPC-3 changes received via
e-mail.

The most contention issue concerned requiring the standard INQUIRY data vendor
identification field to be a value from the list in SPC-3 annex C or on the
T10 web site. George later addressed this issue in a new proposal (see item
5.13).

Concerns were raised about the relationship between the vendor identification
field and the IEEE OUI and it was noted that they are different entities
entirely.

George Penokie noted that support for the WRITE ATTRIBUTES command appears to
be required in SPC-3. The group agreed that this does not represent the will
of the group. Ralph Weber agreed to work with Paul Entzel and other MAM
experts to correct the text as an editorial change in the next revision of
SPC-3.

5.12   RBC Defect Report (03-021r0) [Atkinson]

John Lohmeyer reported that a defect report has been received for RBC
(03-021r0). He stated that the Ron Roberts has agreed that the errors need to
be corrected and that Ron Roberts is working on an amendment document to
address the defect report. He stated completion of the amendment is
anticipated for the March meeting week.

5.13   Vender Identification Assignment (03-060r1) [Penokie]

George Penokie presented a proposal to require the standard INQUIRY data field
to contain an entry from SPC-3 Annex C or the T10 web site (03-060r0). The
group requested minor changes and George agreed to prepare a revised proposal.

George Penokie moved that 03-060r1 (r0 as revised) be recommended for
inclusion in SPC-3. Gerry Houlder seconded the motion. The motion passed on a
vote of 15:0:3.


6.     SCSI Protocol Topics

6.1    SRP-2 Immediate Data Proposal (03-057r0) [Simpson]

Cris Simpson presented a proposal to add immediate write data support to SRP-2
(03-057r0). The group requested that the immediate data login parameter be
expressed in terms of dwords instead of bytes and Cris Simpson agreed to
revise the proposal.

Concerns were expressed regarding the relationship between the login immediate
parameters and equivalent values in the Disconnect-Reconnect mode page and
Cris agreed to make additional changes in the revised proposal.

Rob Elliott was concerned about the use of `immediate data' as the name of the
feature and Cris agreed to modify the proposal to use the preferred 'first
burst size' terminology.

Cris Simpson moved that 03-057r1 (r0 as modified) be recommended for inclusion
in SRP-2. George Penokie seconded the motion. In the absence of any
objections, the motion passed unanimously.


7.     Old Business

No old business was brought before the group.


8.     New Business

8.1    Project Proposal for SSC-3 (03-030r1) [Peterson]

Dave Peterson presented a project proposal for SSC-3 (03-030r0). The group
requested minor wording changes and Dave agreed to revise the proposal.
Concerns were raised about the proposed completion date and Dave agreed to add
six months. The usual questions were raised about the related standard
projects and Dave agreed to modify that section of the project proposal.

Dave Peterson moved that 03-030r1 (r0 as modified) be recommended as a project
proposal for SSC-3. Bob Nixon seconded the motion. The motion passed on a vote
of 16:0:2.

8.2    Remove SPI from SAM-3 and SPC-3 (03-002r3) [Weber]

Ralph Weber presented a proposal to remove the SCSI parallel bus concepts from
SAM-3. He noted that the proposal removes contingent allegiance completely.
The group requested minor changes including text to resolve the issue
described in item 4.8 and Ralph agreed to prepare a new revision.

Ralph Weber moved that 03-002r3 (r2 as revised) be recommended for inclusion
in SAM-3 and SPC-3. Mark Evans seconded the motion. In the absence of any
objections, the motion passed unanimously.

8.3    Remove TARGET RESET from SAM-3 and SPC-3 (03-001r0) [Weber]

Due to the late hour, discussion of this topic was deferred to the next
meeting.


9.     Review of Documents

9.1    SRP-2 Review (SRP-2) [Simpson]

Cris Simpson asked that discussion of this topic be deferred to the next
meeting.


10.    Review of Recommendations to the Plenary

Ralph Weber noted that the following recommendations have been made to the T10
plenary:

For inclusion in SAM-3:
SAM-3 Sense Data Size for Execute Command (02-404r2) [Elliott] {r1 as
modified, unanimous}
Remove SPI from SAM-3 and SPC-3 (03-002r3) [Weber] {r2 as modified, unanimous}
SAM-3 SPC-3 Maximum and first burst size and protocol services (02-403r2)
[Elliott] {r1 as modified, unanimous}
SAM-3 Logical Unit Names (02-488r1) [Penokie] {r0 as modified, unanimous}
SAM-3 Hard reset and multiple port devices (02-473r2) [Elliott] {r1 as
modified, unanimous}
SAM-3 Single level LUN formats (03-032r1) [Elliott] {r0 as modified,
unanimous}

For inclusion in SPC-3:
SAM-3 SPC-3 Maximum and first burst size and protocol services (02-403r2)
[Elliott] {r1 as modified, unanimous}
Remove SPI from SAM-3 and SPC-3 (03-002r3) [Weber] {r2 as modified, unanimous}
SAM-3 Logical Unit Names (02-488r1) [Penokie] {r0 as modified, unanimous}
SSC-2:Obsolete Medium Partition mode pages(2-4) (03-031r0) [Peterson]
{unanimous}
SBC-2 Block Limits mode page (03-028r1) [Elliott] {r0 as modified, unanimous}
Remove AEN from SPC-3 (03-051r0) [Weber] {21:0:1}
Vender Identification Assignment (03-060r1) [Penokie] {r0 as modified,
unanimous}

For inclusion in SBC-2:
SBC-2 Block Limits mode page (03-028r2) [Elliott] {r1 as modified, unanimous}

For inclusion in SSC-2:
SSC-2:Obsolete Medium Partition mode pages(2-4) (03-031r0) [Peterson]
{unanimous}

For inclusion in SES-2:
SES-2 Array Status element bypass status enhancement (03-029r0) [Elliott]
{unanimous}

For inclusion in SRP-2:
SRP-2 Immediate Data Proposal (03-057r1) [Simpson] {r0 as modified, unanimous}

Project Proposals:
Project Proposal for SSC-3 (03-030r1) [Peterson] {r0 as modified, unanimous}


11.    Meeting Schedule

The next meeting of the SCSI Commands, Architecture, and Protocols Working
Group will be Wednesday, March 12, 2003 from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. (or until all
agenda items are completed). The meeting will be in Dallas, TX at the Crowne
Plaza Suites Hotel (972-233-7600), hosted by Texas Instruments.


12.    Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 7:10 p.m. on Wednesday January 15, 2003.

 
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