Draft Minutes of SAS Study Group - April 29-30, 2002
John Lohmeyer
lohmeyer at t10.org
Wed May 1 10:27:16 PDT 2002
* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <lohmeyer at t10.org>
*
A PDF version of these minutes is available at:
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.02/02-159r0.pdf
Accredited Standards Committee*
InterNational Committee for Information Technology Standards (INCITS)
Doc. No.: T10/02-159r0
Date: May 1, 2002
Reply to: John Lohmeyer
To: T10 Membership
From: Ralph Weber & John Lohmeyer
Subject: Serial Attached SCSI Study Group Meeting -- April 29-30, 2002
Nashua, NH
Agenda
1. Opening Remarks
2. Approval of Agenda
3. Attendance and Membership
4. Overview
4.1 SAS Serial Attached SCSI technical overview (02-158) [Elliott]
4.2 SAS Proposed Serial Attached SCSI working draft (02-157) [Elliott]
4.2.1 Scrambler bit order [Coomes]
4.2.2 Scrambler code sample [Coomes]
4.2.3 CRC code sample [Coomes]
4.2.4 ALIGN primitive encoding (02-168) [Galloway/Bastiani]
4.2.5 STP connection closing [Elliott]
4.2.6 SAS OOB Timing [Elliott]
4.2.7 SAS Document Review (02-157r0) [Elliott]
5. New Business
5.1 SAS REPORT MANUFACTURER ID (02-165) [Roberts]
5.2 What to output when coding violation or disparity error received
(02-___) [Galloway]
5.3 Wide lane rules (02-170) [Galloway]
5.4 SAS Error primitive (02-167) [Galloway]
5.5 SAS XFER_RDY Rules (02-169) [Galloway]
5.6 SAS PHY Control Request Modification (02-174) [Roberts]
5.7 SAS Asynchronous Event Reporting (02-175r0) [Weber]
6. Review of Recommendations to the Plenary
7. Meeting Schedule
8. Adjournment
Results of Meeting
1. Opening Remarks
John Lohmeyer, the T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 1:15 p.m.,
Monday, April 29, 2002. He thanked Zane Daggett of Hitachi Cable Manchester
for hosting the meeting.
John noted that the private Serial Attached SCSI Working Group had agreed to
turn over the proposed draft specification to T10 and, assuming T10 votes to
accept the project, all future work technical work will be done in T10
following INCITS rules and procedures.
As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.
2. Approval of Agenda
The draft agenda was approved with the following changes:
4.2.1 Scrambler bit order [Coomes]
4.2.2 Scrambler code sample [Coomes]
4.2.3 CRC code sample [Coomes]
4.2.4 ALIGN primitive encoding [Galloway/Bastiani]
4.2.5 STP connection closing [Elliott]
5.4 SAS Error primitive (02-167) [Galloway]
5.5 SAS XFER_RDY Rules (02-169) [Galloway]
5.6 SAS PHY Control Request Modification (02-174) [Roberts]
The following items were added/revised during the course of the meeting:
4.2.6 SAS OOB Timing [Elliott]
4.2.7 SAS Document Review (02-157r0) [Elliott]
5.3 Wide lane rules (02-170) [Galloway]
5.7 SAS Asynchronous Event Reporting (02-175r0) [Weber]
3. Attendance and Membership
Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for T10 membership. Working group meetings are open to any person
or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of work. The
following people attended the meeting:
Name S Organization Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Vince Bastiani V Adaptec Consultant bass.tech at gte.net
Mr. Ron Roberts P Adaptec, Inc. Ron_Roberts at adaptec.com
Mr. Don Allingham V Adaptec, Inc. don_allingham at adaptec.com
Mr. Michael Wingard P Amphenol Interconnect mikwingard at aol.com
Mr. Jan Dedek V Ancot Corp. dedek at ancot.com
Mr. Bill Galloway P BREA Technologies, Inc. billg at breatech.com
Mr. Brian Forbes P Brocade Comm. Systems, bforbes at brocade.com
Inc.
Mr. Nicholaos V C&M Corp. nlimberopoulos@
Limberopoulos cmcorporation.com
Mr. Mark Hamel V Compaq Computer Co. mark.w.hamel at compaq.com
Mr. Steve Lambest V Compaq Computer Co. steve.a.lamest at compaq.com
Mr. Robert C. Elliott P Compaq Computer Corp. Robert.Elliott at compaq.com
Mr. Steven Fairchild V Compaq Computer Corp. Steve.Fairchild at compaq.
com
Mr. T. Gionfriddo V Compaq Computer Corp.
Mr. Edwin MacNeil V Compaq Computer Corp. edwin.macneil at compaq.com
Mr. George Eisler V Conexant/Mindspeed geisler at aol.com
Mr. John Tyndall A Crossroads Systems, Inc. jtyndall at crossroads.com
Mr. Titkwan Hui P Dallas Semiconductor tk.hui at dalsemi.com
Mr. Ronald Stockford A Dell Computer Corp. ron_stockford at dell.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber P ENDL Texas roweber at acm.org
Mr. Gene Whetstone AV Foxconn Electronics gene.whetstone at foxconn.
com
Mr. Nathan Hastad P General Dynamics nathan.hastad at gd-ais.com
Mr. Randy Haagens P Hewlett Packard Co. randy_haagens at hp.com
Mr. Martin Goldstein V Hewlett Packard Co. martin_goldstein at hp.com
Mr. Werner Glinka AV Hitachi America werner.glinka at attglobal.
net
Mr. Randy Wasylak A Hitachi Cable Manchester rwasylak at hcm.hitachi.com
Mr. Matt Otto V I-TECH Corp. matt_otto at i-tech.com
Mr. George O. Penokie P IBM / Tivoli Systems gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. Dan Colegrove V IBM Corp. dcolegro at us.ibm.com
Mr. Cris Simpson P Intel Corp. cris.simpson at intel.com
Mr. John Lohmeyer P LSI Logic Corp. lohmeyer at t10.org
Mr. William Petty A LSI Logic Corp. william.petty at lsil.com
Mr. Travis Bradfield V LSI Logic Corp. travis.bradfield at lsil.com
Mr. Dave Gissel V LSI Logic Corp. david.gissel at lsil.com
Mr. Tim Hoglund V LSI Logic Corp. tim.hoglund at lsil.com
Mr. David Noeldner V LSI Logic Corp. dave.noeldner at lsil.com
Mr. Mark Evans P Maxtor Corp. mark_evans at maxtor.com
Mr. Russ Brown V Maxtor Corp. russ_brown at maxtor.com
Mr. David Cressman V Maxtor Corp. dave_cressman at maxtor.com
Mr. Dana Hall V Maxtor Corp. dana_hall at maxtor.com
Mr. Bruce Leshay V Maxtor Corp. bruce_leshay at maxtor.com
Mr. Steve Byan V Maxtor Corp. stephen_byan at maxtor.com
Mr. Martin Czekalski V Maxtor Corp. marty_czekalski at maxtor.
com
Mr. Kevin Gray V Maxtor Corp. kevin_gray at maxtor.com
Mr. Mike Leis V Maxtor Corp. mike_leis at maxtor.com
Mr. David Smith V Maxtor Corp. david_smith at maxtor.com
Mr. James R. (Bob) AV Network Appliance Inc. bob at netapp.com
Davis
Mr. Edward A. Gardner P Ophidian Designs eag at ophidian.com
Mr. Ting Li Chan V QLogic Corp. ting.chan at qlogic.com
Mr. Arie Krantz V QLogic Corp. l_krantz at qlc.com
Mr. Dwayne Edling V Quantum Corp. dwayne.edling at quantum.com
Mr. Gerald Houlder P Seagate Technology gerry_houlder at seagate.com
Mr. Umesh Chandra V Seagate Technology umesh_chandra at seagate.com
Mr. Jim Coomes V Seagate Technology jim_coomes at seagate.com
Mr. Alvin Cox V Seagate Technology Alvin.Cox at seagate.com
Mr. John Worden V Seagate Technology john.worden at seagate.com
Mr. Vit Novak P Sun Microsystems, Inc. vit.novak at sun.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi P Texas Instruments Paul_Aloisi at ti.com
Mr. Donald R. Getty A Texas Instruments donald_getty at ti.com
Mr. Ron Mathews AV UNISYS Corporation ronald.mathews at unisys.com
Mr. Kenneth Hirata AV Vixel Corp. Ken.Hirata at Vixel.com
60 People Present
Status Key: P - Principal
A,A# - Alternate
AV - Advisory Member
L - Liaison
V - Visitor
4. Overview
4.1 SAS Serial Attached SCSI technical overview (02-158) [Elliott]
Rob Elliott presented an overview of Serial Attached SCSI (02-158r0),
reviewing major features and design goals of SAS. The presentation was
predominately tutorial. Several issues were raised, notably among them
schedule concerns. Rob stated that the goal is to be ready for letter ballot
in November.
John Lohmeyer thanked Rob for preparing the presentation.
4.2 SAS Proposed Serial Attached SCSI working draft (02-157) [Elliott]
4.2.1 Scrambler bit order [Coomes]
Jim Coomes described the current thinking regarding the scrambling bit
ordering rules. He said he wanted to combine all the drawings in a single
drawing. Based on input provided by the group, Jim agreed to bring a more
detailed presentation to the next meeting.
4.2.2 Scrambler code sample [Coomes]
This topic was discussed under item 4.2.1.
4.2.3 CRC code sample [Coomes]
Jim Coomes led a discussion of how to document the CRC algorithms for SAS.
Based on the group's discussion, Jim agreed to bring a more detailed
presentation to the next meeting.
4.2.4 ALIGN primitive encoding (02-168) [Galloway/Bastiani]
Bill Galloway presented a proposal to modify how ALIGN primitives are
transmitted (02-168r0) in order to reduce EMI, along with some computed FFT
graphs showing the EMI effects of the current and proposed character patterns.
The group discussed the validity of the FFT graphs.
Vince Bastiani agreed to put the FFT graphs in a new T10 document.
Concerns were raised about the statement that transmitters not cycle through
the ALIGN dwords if they are not required to do so. Bill agreed to revise the
proposal to allow cycling even when it is not required.
Bill Galloway moved that 02-168r1 (r0 as modified) be recommended for
inclusion in SAS. Rob Elliott seconded the motion. In the absence of any
objections, the motion was approved unanimously.
4.2.5 STP connection closing [Elliott]
Rob Elliott led a discussion of an SAS editor's note concerning the closing of
STP connections. He noted that a DONE exchange may be required. Bill Galloway
suggested that there might be options based on the need to arbitrate to send.
It was agreed that the expander can achieve the effect of a DONE by
withholding the R_RDY before closing a connection. With that agreement it
place it was further agreed that only the expander can close an STP
connection.
4.2.6 SAS OOB Timing [Elliott]
Rob Elliott led a discussion of the problems related to the timing rules for
Serial ATA out of band (OOB) operations.
Rob agreed to write a new document describing the agreements reached by the
group for review at the next meeting.
4.2.7 SAS Document Review (02-157r0) [Elliott]
Rob Elliott led a discussion of the SAS document. The group also reviewed
several state diagrams.
5. New Business
5.1 SAS REPORT MANUFACTURER ID (02-165) [Roberts]
Ron Roberts presented a proposal to add the reporting of manufacturer
identification based on standard Inquiry data to the expander interrogation in
the SMP protocol (02-165r0). Changes were requested and Ron agreed to prepare
a new revision.
Ron Roberts moved that 02-165r1 (r0 as revised) be recommended for inclusion
in SAS. Mark Evans seconded the motion. In the absence of any objections, the
motion passed unanimously.
5.2 What to output when coding violation or disparity error received
(02-___) [Galloway]
This topic was discussed as part of item 5.4
5.3 Wide lane rules (02-170) [Galloway]
Bill Galloway presented a discussion of the issues related to wide lane usage
(02-170r0). Bill noted that the purpose of the presentation was information
gathering for development of a specific change proposal. The group obliged
Bill by providing detailed information on what should be included in the
proposal.
A significant source of difficulty was using multiple links for a single data
transfer. Accomplishing this requires the definition of a relative offset so
that each link in use "knows" what part of the data transfer buffer it is
accessing. However, the addition of relative offset to the standard opens the
possibility that data can be transferred out of order, thus violating a basic
precept of SAS. It was agreed not to include relative offset in this version
of SAS.
Bill agreed to prepare a detailed proposal for consideration at the next
meeting.
5.4 SAS Error primitive (02-167) [Galloway]
Bill Galloway presented a proposal intended to more clearly identify the link
on which an error occurs (02-167r0). The gist of the proposal was that
expanders replace dwords received with errors (coding violations or disparity
errors) with an ERROR primitive. Concerns were raised about how the change
affects error detection. Also of concern was how introduction of the ERROR
primitive would affect interactions with a SATA drive and how best to
communicate any detected conditions to a SATA drive.
Bill Galloway agreed to revise the proposal as recommended by the group. Bill
Galloway moved that 02-167r1 (r0 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in
SAS. Rob Elliott seconded the motion. In the absence of any objections, the
motion passed unanimously.
5.5 SAS XFER_RDY Rules (02-169) [Galloway]
Bill Galloway asked that discussion of this topic be deferred to the next
meeting.
5.6 SAS PHY Control Request Modification (02-174) [Roberts]
Ron Roberts presented a proposal to add four vendor unique bytes to the PHY
CONTROL function (02-174r0). Concerns were raised about the use of vendor
unique bytes and requests were made to add reserved bytes. Ting Chan suggested
sending the proposal to the SAS PHY group to get specific definitions for the
proposed new bytes.
Ron agreed to take the proposal to the SAS PHY group for development of
specific field definitions.
5.7 SAS Asynchronous Event Reporting (02-175) [Weber]
Ralph Weber raised concerns about the layering of the asynchronous event
reporting planned for SAS (02-175r0). The group agreed that these concerns can
and should be addressed in future SAS revisions.
Based on the agreements reached by the group, Ralph asked that this topic be
removed from future agendas.
6. Review of Recommendations to the Plenary
Ralph Weber noted that the following recommendations have been made to the T10
plenary:
SAS REPORT MANUFACTURER ID (02-165r1) [Roberts] {r0 as modified}
ALIGN primitive encoding (02-168r1) [Galloway/Bastiani] {r0 as modified}
SAS Error primitive (02-167) [Galloway] {r0 as modified}
7. Meeting Schedule
Serial Attached SCSI Working Group meetings are scheduled for:
Wednesday-Friday, June 5-7, 2002 commencing at 9:00 am on Wednesday and ending
at noon on Friday in Minneapolis, MN at the Hilton Inn (952-854-2100).
Monday-Wednesday, June 24-26, 2002 commencing at 9:00 am on Monday and ending
at noon on Wednesday in Denver, CO at the TBD.
Monday-Tuesday, July 15-16, 2002 commencing at 1:00 p.m. on Monday and ending
at 8:00 pm on Tuesday in Colorado Springs, CO at the Wyndham Colorado Springs
Hotel (719-260-1800).
Conference calls are typically held each Tuesday morning. The group agreed to
schedule a call for Tuesday, May 7 with IBM hosting to be announced on the T10
reflector.
8. Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 6:00 p.m. on Tuesday, April 30, 2002.
--
John Lohmeyer Email: lohmeyer at t10.org
LSI Logic Corp. Voice: +1-719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr. Fax: +1-719-533-7183
Colo Spgs, CO 80907
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