Draft minutes of SAS Protocol WG - July 15-16, 2002

John Lohmeyer lohmeyer at t10.org
Wed Jul 17 13:08:03 PDT 2002


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <lohmeyer at t10.org>
*
A PDF version of these minutes is available at:

   ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.02/02-271r0.pdf

Accredited Standards Committee*
InterNational Committee for Information Technology Standards (INCITS)

                                                       Doc. No.: T10/02-271r0
                                                           Date: July 17, 2002
                                                       Reply to: John Lohmeyer
To:       T10 Membership
From:     John Lohmeyer
Subject:  Serial Attached SCSI Protocol Working Group Meeting -- July 15-16,
           2002
           Colorado Springs, CO

Agenda
1.     Opening Remarks
2.     Approval of Agenda
3.     Attendance and Membership
4.     Old Business
4.1      SAS CRC Generation and Scrambling (02-231) [Coomes]
4.2      SAS Working Draft Review [Elliott]
4.3      SAS OOB timing (02-198) [Elliott]
4.4      SAS Credit Not Ready (02-215) [Galloway]
4.5      SAS SMP transport layer state diagrams (02-216) [Penokie]
4.6      SAS Port Control State Diagram Update (02-202) [Worden]
4.7      SAS initiator transport layer state machines for SSP (02-230) [Evans]
4.8      Name consistency between port and transport layers (02-276) [Worden]
4.9      SAS Pathway Recovery (02-256) [Hoglund]
4.10     SAS COMMAND ID Removal (02-259) [Day]
5.     New Business
5.1      Initiator based discovery and configuration of the SAS topology,
proposal (02-279) [Fairchild]
5.2      Initiator based configuration for SAS, powerpoint presentation
(02-280) [Fairchild]
5.3      Target detection of I_T nexus loss [Byan]
5.4      Arbitration clarification (02-222) [Galloway]
5.5      SAS target transport layer state machines for SSP (02-287) [Evans]
6.     Review of Recommendations to the Plenary
7.     Meeting Schedule
8.     Adjournment

Results of Meeting

1.     Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer, the T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 1:30 p.m.,
Monday, July 15, 2002. He thanked LSI Logic for hosting the meeting.

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.


2.     Approval of Agenda

The draft agenda was approved with the following changes:

4.8      Name consistency between port and transport layers (02-276) [Worden]
5.1      Initiator based discovery and configuration of the SAS topology,
proposal (02-279) [Fairchild]
5.2      Initiator based configuration for SAS, powerpoint presentation
(02-280) [Fairchild]
5.3      Target detection of I_T nexus loss [Byan]

The following items were added/revised during the course of the meeting:

4.7      SAS initiator transport layer state machines for SSP (02-230) [Evans]
5.4      Reiteration clarification (02-222) [Galloway]
5.5      SAS target transport layer state machines for SSP (02-287) [Evans]


3.     Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for T10 membership. Working group meetings are open to any person
or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of work. The
following people attended the meeting:

          Name          S        Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Ron Roberts        P  Adaptec, Inc.             Ron_Roberts at adaptec.com
Mr. Bill Galloway      P  BREA Technologies, Inc.   billg at breatech.com
Mr. John Tyndall       A  Crossroads Systems, Inc.  jtyndall at crossroads.com
Mr. Kevin Marks        P  Dell Computer Corp.       kevin_marks at dell.com
Mr. Ronald Stockford   A  Dell Computer Corp.       ron_stockford at dell.com
Mr. Gary S. Robinson   P  EMC Corp.                 robinson_gary at emc.com
Mr. Robert H. Nixon    P  Emulex                    bob.nixon at emulex.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber     P  ENDL Texas                roweber at acm.org
Mr. Mike Fitzpatrick   P  Fujitsu                   mfitzpatrick at fcpa.
                                                     fujitsu.com
Mr. Rob Elliott        P  Hewlett Packard Co.       Elliott at hp.com
Mr. Steven Fairchild   V  Hewlett Packard Co.       Steve.Fairchild at compaq.
                                                     com
Mr. Bruce Schober      V  Hewlett Packard Co.       bruce_schober at hp.com
Mr. Werner Glinka      AV Hitachi America           werner.glinka at attglobal.
                                                     net
Mr. Matt Otto          V  I-TECH Corp.              matt_otto at i-tech.com
Mr. George O. Penokie  P  IBM / Tivoli Systems      gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. Dan Colegrove      V  IBM Corp.                 dcolegro at us.ibm.com
Mr. Chris Fournier     V  IBM Corp.                 chrisfou at us.ibm.com
Mr. Pak Seto           V  Intel                     pak-lund.seto at intel.com
Mr. Robert Sheffield   V  Intel Corp.               robert.l.sheffield at intel.
                                                     com
Mr. Dennis Moore       P  KnowledgeTek, Inc.        dmoore at ix.netcom.com
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  LSI Logic Corp.           lohmeyer at t10.org
Mr. William Petty      A  LSI Logic Corp.           william.petty at lsil.com
Mr. Brian Day          V  LSI Logic Corp.           brian.day at lsil.com
Mr. Dave Gissel        V  LSI Logic Corp.           david.gissel at lsil.com
Mr. Tim Hoglund        V  LSI Logic Corp.           tim.hoglund at lsil.com
Mr. David Weber        V  LSI Logic Corp.           david.weber at lsil.com
Ms. Jie Fan            P  Madison Cable Corp.       jie.fan at madisoncable.com
Mr. Mark Evans         P  Maxtor Corp.              mark_evans at maxtor.com
Mr. Pete McLean        A  Maxtor Corp.              pete_mclean at maxtor.com
Mr. Steve Byan         V  Maxtor Corp.              stephen_byan at maxtor.com
Mr. Martin Czekalski   V  Maxtor Corp.              marty_czekalski at maxtor.
                                                     com
Mr. James R. (Bob)     P  Network Appliance Inc.    bob at netapp.com
Davis
Mr. Edward A. Gardner  P  Ophidian Designs          eag at ophidian.com
Mr. Greg Casey         AV QLogic Corp.              greg.casey at qlogic.com
Mr. Arie Krantz        V  QLogic Corp.              l_krantz at qlc.com
Ms. Deborah Laurion    V  Quantum Corp.             deborah.laurion at quantum.
                                                     com
Mr. Gerald Houlder     P  Seagate Technology        gerry_houlder at seagate.com
Mr. Jim Coomes         V  Seagate Technology        jim_coomes at seagate.com
Mr. Willis Whittington V  Seagate Technology        Willis.Whittington@
                                                     seagate.com
Mr. John Worden        V  Seagate Technology        john.worden at seagate.com
Mr. Edward Haske       P  Silicon Image             haske at siliconimage.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi     P  Texas Instruments         Paul_Aloisi at ti.com
Mr. Phil Shelton       A  UNISYS Corporation        phil.shelton at unisys.com
Mr. Kenneth Hirata     P  Vixel Corp.               Ken.Hirata at Vixel.com

44 People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
              A,A# -  Alternate
              AV   -  Advisory Member
              L    -  Liaison
              V    -  Visitor


4.     Old Business


4.1    SAS CRC Generation and Scrambling (02-231) [Coomes]

Jim Coomes reviewed the example C algorithms for CRC generation and scrambling
(02-231r1). Rob Elliott expressed concerns that the scrambling example uses a
16-bit algorithm to produce a 32-bit result. The group requested changes to
address this and other issues.

Jim Coomes moved that 02-231r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in
SAS. Bill Galloway seconded the motion. In the absence of any objections, the
motion passed unanimously.

4.2    SAS Working Draft Review [Elliott]

Because of the late hour, Rob Elliott requested that discussion of this topic
be deferred to the next meeting.

4.3    SAS OOB timing (02-198) [Elliott]

Rob Elliott reviewed the OOB proposal (02-198r5) in a joint meeting with the
SAS PHY working group. Alvin Cox presented issues discovered by the SAS PHY
working group. As a result of the discussion, the PHY group agreed to define
the idle mode level. The group requested changes in the proposal.

Rob Elliott moved that 02-198r6 (r5 as revised) be recommended for inclusion
in SAS. Bill Galloway seconded the motion. In the absence of any objections,
the motion passed unanimously.

4.4    SAS Credit Not Ready (02-215) [Galloway]

Bill Galloway presented 02-215r1, SAS credit not ready.

Bill Galloway moved that 02-215r1 be recommended for inclusion in SAS. Mark
Evans seconded the motion. In the absence of any objections, the motion passed
unanimously.

4.5    SAS SMP transport layer state diagrams (02-216) [Penokie]

George Penokie led a review of the SMP transport layer state diagrams
(02-216r4). The group requested several editorial changes.

George Penokie moved that 02-216r5 (r4 as revised) be recommended for
inclusion in SAS. Bill Galloway seconded the motion. In the absence of any
objections, the motion passed unanimously.

4.6    SAS Port Control State Diagram Update (02-202) [Worden]

John Worden reviewed the port control state diagram (02-202r1). The group
requested numerous changes and John agreed to prepare a new revision. The
group was unable to finish reviewing the entire proposal so John agreed to
present the revised proposal at the next meeting.

4.7    SAS initiator transport layer state machines for SSP (02-230) [Evans]

Mark Evans reviewed the changes to initiator transport layer state diagrams
(02-230r1). The group requested editorial changes.

Mark Evans moved that 02-230r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in
SAS. Jim Coomes seconded the motion. In the absence of any objections, the
motion passed unanimously.

4.8    Name consistency between port and transport layers (02-276) [Worden]

George Penokie moved that 02-203 be removed from the list of documents that
have been recommended for inclusion in SAS. John Worden seconded the motion.
In the absence of any objections, the motion passed unanimously.

John Worden presented a combined request-confirmation interactions table for
the port, transport, and client/server layers (02-276r0). The group reviewed
the table in detail. John took notes regarding numerous changes to be made in
the proposal.

John Worden moved that 02-276r1 (r0 as revised) be recommended for inclusion
in SAS. Mark Evans seconded the motion. In the absence of any objections, the
motion passed unanimously.

4.9    SAS Pathway Recovery (02-256) [Hoglund]

Tim Hoglund presented a proposal for how failed path recovery is to be
performed (02-256r0). The group discussed the way the information in the
proposal should be presented to make it comprehensible. Operational details of
the proposed mechanisms were also discussed.

Tim Hoglund moved that 02-256r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended for inclusion
in SAS. Bill Galloway seconded the motion. In the absence of any objections,
the motion passed unanimously.

4.10   SAS COMMAND ID Removal (02-259) [Day]

Brian Day requested that discussion of this topic be deferred to the next
meeting.


5.     New Business

5.1    Initiator based discovery and configuration of the SAS topology,
proposal (02-279) [Fairchild]

Steve Fairchild reviewed the detailed proposal supporting the Edge router
expander discussed in his earlier overview presentation (see item 5.2).

Bill Galloway raised concerns about the inability to discover wide connections
in topology discovery due to the absence of one of two world wide name values
in the discovery frame.

George Penokie questioned the presence of link rate information in the
proposed identify frame because it contains no information that is critical to
the function assigned to the identify frame.

There was broad agreement that the modified identify frame format and
phy-based discovery are the two most important aspects of this proposal to
resolve quickly. Resolving these issues was made a high priority for the
telephone conference calls between now and the August meeting with final
action targeted for the August meeting.

5.2    Initiator based configuration for SAS, powerpoint presentation (02-280)
[Fairchild]

Steve Fairchild proposed that the internal construction of an Edge expander
cloud be exposed in the SAS definitions (02-280r0). The purpose of the change
was to simplify the construction of the Edge expander cloud by moving the Edge
expander configuration function from the Edge expander cloud to the initiator
HBA. The change would have the effect of introducing a new expander layer,
increasing the number of expander layers from two to three.

The increase in SAS complexity met with substantial resistance.

The group agreed to recess for the evening and discuss the topic again on the
second meeting day.

A straw poll supported proceeding with the development of this idea 10:3:10.

The group debated continuing with a review of the detailed proposal and agreed
to continue with item 5.1.

5.3    Target detection of I_T nexus loss [Byan]

Steve Byan led a discussion of situations where the target is not in
communication with an initiator but has pending actions with that initiator.
If the initiator never responds, the target waits forever. Steve expressed the
concern that the target might block useful progress on other initiators when
one initiator goes belly up.

It was argued that if one initiator goes belly up, the onus should be on other
initiators to detect the condition, not on the target. Steve agreed that the
issue needed no further consideration.

5.4    Arbitration clarification (02-222) [Galloway]

Bill Galloway asked that discussion of this topic be deferred to the next
meeting.

5.5    SAS target transport layer state machines for SSP (02-287) [Evans]

Mark Evans reviewed a preliminary draft of the proposal to specify the target
transport layer state machines (02-287r0). Noting that only the state diagram
picture was ready for review, Mark agreed to bring a revised proposal to the
next meeting.


6.     Review of Recommendations to the Plenary

John Lohmeyer noted that the following recommendations have been made to the
T10 plenary:

Recommendations from the May 14, 2002 teleconference:
that 02-169r2 be accepted for inclusion in the SAS working draft.
that 02-170r1 be accepted for inclusion in the SAS working draft.

Recommendations from the May 21, 2002 teleconference:
none.

Recommendations from the June 5-7, 2002 working group meeting:
that 02-179r1 (r0 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in the SAS working
draft.
02-211r1 (r0 as revised) be accepted for inclusion in the SAS working draft.
02-212r1 (r0 as revised) be accepted for inclusion in the SAS working draft.
02-218r0, which recommends that the SMP FER Loopback function be removed, be
accepted and that the SAS technical editor be directed to remove the SMP FER
Loopback function.
that 02-203r1 (r0 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in the SAS working
draft (removed by recommendation of this meeting).
that 02-217r0 be recommended for inclusion in the SAS working draft.
that 02-214r1 be recommended for inclusion in the SAS working draft.

Recommendations from the June 18, 2002 teleconference:
that 02-204r1 be recommended for inclusion in the SAS working draft.
that 02-197r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in the SAS working
draft.

Recommendations from the June 24-26, 2002 working group meeting:
that 02-196r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended to T10 for inclusion in SAS.
that 02-201r3 (r2 as revised) be recommended to T10 for inclusion in SAS.
that 02-205r3 (r2 as revised) be recommended to T10 for inclusion in SAS.
that in state SMP_SFR1 in figure 69 in SAS-R00C, that the protocol violation
and the failed frame confirmations be deleted and any corresponding text be
deleted.
that 02-245r0 be recommended to T10 for inclusion in SAM-3.
that 02-246r0 be recommended to T10 for inclusion in SPC-3.

Recommendations from the July 9, 2002 teleconference:
that 02-219r3 (r2 as revised) be recommended to T10 for inclusion in SAS.

Recommendations from this meeting:
02-231r2 (r1 as revised) SAS CRC Generation and Scrambling
02-216r5 (r4 as revised) SAS SMP transport layer state diagrams
02-230r2 (r1 as revised) SAS transport layer state machines for SSP
02-276r1 (r0 as revised) Name consistency between port and transport layers
02-215r1 SAS Credit Not Ready
02-256r2 (r1 as revised) SAS Pathway Recovery
02-198r6 (r5 as revised) SAS OOB timing


7.     Meeting Schedule

Serial Attached SCSI Working Group meetings are scheduled for:

Wednesday-Friday, August 21-23, 2002 commencing at 9:00 am on Wednesday and
ending at noon on Friday in Shrewsbury, MA at Maxtor. Host contact: Mark
Evans.

Monday-Tuesday, September 9-10, 2002 commencing at 1:00 p.m. on Monday and
ending at 8:00 pm on Tuesday in Minneapolis, MN at the Hilton Minneapolis/St.
Paul Airport Hotel (952-854-2100).

SAS Protocol teleconferences are scheduled for:

    Tuesday July 30, 2002 and Tuesday August 13, 2002
    11:00 am -- 2:00 pm  EDT
    10:00 am -- 1:00 pm  CDT
     9:00 am -- noon     MDT
     8:00 am -- 11:00 am PDT

    USA Toll Free Number: 877-417-9828
             Toll Number: +1-706-679-9028
         Conference Code: 719 533 7560

WebEx Session: http://seagate.webex.com/
  Meeting Name: SAS Protocol teleconference
      Password: to be announced on T10 reflector


8.     Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 6:35 pm on Tuesday, July 16, 2002.

--
John Lohmeyer                  Email: lohmeyer at t10.org
LSI Logic Corp.                Voice: +1-719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr.              Fax: +1-719-533-7183
Colo Spgs, CO 80907

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