Draft minutes SCSI CAP working group - Nov 8, 2001
John Lohmeyer
lohmeyer at t10.org
Thu Nov 8 19:26:15 PST 2001
* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <lohmeyer at t10.org>
*
A PDF version of these minutes is available at:
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.01/01-323r0.pdf
Accredited Standards Committee*
National Committee for Information Technology Standards (NCITS)
Doc. No.: T10/01-323r0
Date: November 8, 2001
Reply to: John Lohmeyer
To: T10 Membership
From: Ralph Weber and John Lohmeyer
Subject: SCSI Commands, Architecture, & Protocol Working Group Meeting --
November 7, 2001
Seaside, CA
Agenda
1. Opening Remarks
2. Approval of Agenda
3. Attendance and Membership
4. SCSI Architecture Model Topics
4.1 Names, Addresses, Identifiers, Oh my! (01-084) [Penokie]
4.2 Replacing Task Identifiers in SAM-2 (01-196) [Weber]
4.3 It's the I_T Nexus, Stupid (01-093) [Weber]
4.4 SCSI MIB (01-163) [Krueger/Penokie]
4.5 Liaison report on SCSI MIB activities [Cummings]
4.6 SAM-2 Issues from Editors' Meeting [Weber]
4.7 Unit attention issue (00-359 and 01-299) [Gardner/Weber]
4.8 SAM-2 Data Transfer Ordering Requirements (01-309) [Gardner]
4.9 SAM-2 SPC-3 Eliminate SCSI-2 references and describe CA (01-318)
[Elliott]
4.10 Progress Indication with REQUEST SENSE (01-316) [Entzel]
5. Command Set Topics
5.1 SCSI Device Memory Export Protocol (00-312) [Barry]
5.2 SAN Management & Mode Pages (01-046) [Cummings]
5.3 REPORT ADDRESSABLE TARGETS well-known LUN Function [Terrell]
5.4 SPC-3 letting persistent reservations ignore target ports (01-099)
[Elliott]
5.5 SPC-3 letting persistent reservations ignore initiator ports (01-100)
[Elliott]
5.6 SPC-3 Request Sense Information field for long LBAs (01-199)
[Elliott]
5.7 Access Controls for SPC-3 (the rewrite) (01-268) [Weber/Hafner]
5.8 Interlocking BUSY, RESERVATION CONFLICT and TASK SET FULL (01-267)
[Satran/Hafner]
5.9 SBC-2 Long LBA PMI support for READ CAPACITY (01-246) [Elliott]
5.10 Report Supported Operation Codes Command (01-253) [Penokie]
5.11 Proposal for an additional Persistent Reservations Type in SPC-3
(01-204) [Cummings]
5.12 Proposed change to UA requirement on SET DEVICE IDENTIFIER command
(01-305) [Paul Enztel]
5.13 SMC-2 INITIALIZE ELEMENT STATUS WITH RANGE command (01-308) [Elliott]
6. SCSI Protocol Topics
6.1 SRP Initiator Inactivity Timeout (01-038) [Simpson]
7. Old Business
8. New Business
9. Review of Documents
9.1 SBC-2 Review [Elliott]
10. Review of Recommendations to the Plenary
11. Meeting Schedule
12. Adjournment
Results of Meeting
1. Opening Remarks
John Lohmeyer, the T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m.,
Wednesday November 7, 2001. He thanked Ron Roberts and Sondra Heiser of
Adaptec for hosting the meeting.
As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.
2. Approval of Agenda
The draft agenda was approved with the following changes:
4.9 SAM-2 SPC-3 Eliminate SCSI-2 references and describe CA (01-318)
[Elliott]
4.10 Progress Indication with REQUEST SENSE (01-316) [Entzel]
The following agenda items were added/revised during the course of the
meeting:
none
3. Attendance and Membership
Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for T10 membership. Working group meetings are open to any
person or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of
work. The following people attended the meeting:
Name S Organization Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Ron Roberts P Adaptec, Inc. Ron_Roberts at adaptec.com
Dr. Claudio DeSanti P Andiamo Systems, Inc. cds at andiamo.com
Mr. Robert Snively P Brocade Comm. Systems, rsnively at brocade.com
Inc.
Mr. Kha-Sin Teow V Brocade Communications khasin at brocade.com
Mr. David Peterson P Cisco Systems, Inc. dap at cisco.com
Mr. Robert C. Elliott P Compaq Computer Corp. Robert.Elliott at compaq.com
Mr. Robert Griswold P Crossroads Systems, Inc. rgriswold at crossroads.com
Mr. James A. Lott, Jr. A Dallas Semiconductor jim.lott at dalsemi.com
Mr. Robert H. Nixon P Emulex bob.nixon at emulex.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber P ENDL Texas roweber at acm.org
Mr. Gene Whetstone V Foxconn gene.whetstone at foxconn.
com
Mr. Eugene Lew P Fujitsu elew at fcpa.fujitsu.com
Mr. Nathan Hastad P General Dynamics nathan.j.hastad at gd-is.com
Mr. Randy Haagens P Hewlett Packard Co. randy_haagens at hp.com
Ms. Marjorie Krueger AV Hewlett Packard Co. marjorie_krueger at hp.com
Mr. George O. Penokie P IBM / Tivoli Systems gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. Kevin Butt AV IBM Corp. kdbutt at us.ibm.com
Dr. Jim Hafner V IBM Corp. hafner at almaden.ibm.com
Mr. Cris Simpson P Intel Corp. cris.simpson at intel.com
Mr. John Lohmeyer P LSI Logic Corp. lohmeyer at t10.org
Mr. Edward A. Gardner P Ophidian Designs eag at ophidian.com
Mr. Charles Binford P Pirus Networks charles.binford at pirus.com
Mr. Paul Entzel P Quantum Corp. paul.entzel at quantum.com
Mr. Larry Lamers V San Valley ljlamers at ieee.org
Mr. Gerald Houlder P Seagate Technology gerry_houlder at seagate.com
Mr. Erich Oetting P Storage Technology Corp. erich_oetting at stortek.com
Mr. Kenneth Moe P Sun Microsystems, Inc. kenneth.moe at sun.com
Mr. Vit Novak A Sun Microsystems, Inc. vit.novak at sun.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi P Texas Instruments Paul_Aloisi at ti.com
Mr. Donald R. Getty A Texas Instruments donald_getty at ti.com
Mr. Ron Mathews AV UNISYS Corporation ronald.mathews at unisys.com
Mr. Roger Cummings P Veritas Software roger.cummings at veritas.
com
Mr. Bob Schatz V Veritas Software bschatz at veritas.com
33 People Present
Status Key: P - Principal
A,A# - Alternate
AV - Advisory Member
L - Liaison
V - Visitor
4. SCSI Architecture Model Topics
4.1 Names, Addresses, Identifiers, Oh my! (01-084) [Penokie]
George Penokie asked that discussion of this topic be deferred to the next
meeting.
4.2 Replacing Task Identifiers in SAM-2 (01-196) [Weber]
Ralph Weber presented a collection of SAM-2 wording changes whose effect would
the removal of the task identifier object from SAM-2. The task identifier
object would be replaced with the nexus object. Ralph Weber moved that
01-196r1 be recommended for inclusion in SAM-2. Ed Gardner seconded the
motion. The motion passed on a vote of 25:0:0.
4.3 It's the I_T Nexus, Stupid (01-093) [Weber]
Ralph Weber asked that discussion of this topic be deferred to the next
meeting.
4.4 SCSI MIB (01-163) [Krueger/Penokie]
George Penokie asked that this item be deferred to the next meeting.
4.5 Liaison report on SCSI MIB activities [Cummings]
Roger Cummings reviewed the activities of the SCSI MIB group (01-333r0),
noting that participants in the activity include leader Yaron Lederman
(Siliquent), editor Michele Hallak-Stamler (SANRAD), MIB advisor Keith
McCloghrie (Cisco), iSCSI advisors Mark Bakke (Cisco), Marjorie Krueger (HP),
SCSI advisor George Penokie, (Tivoli), participants Ron Roberts (Adaptec),
Satish Mali (Stonefly Networks), Kha-Sin Teow (Brocade), Sajay Selvaraj (Hcl
Technologies), and Roger.
The group discussed the UML (Universal Modeling Language) representation of
the SCSI architecture (01-334r0).
Roger agreed to report the content of this discussion to the MIB group and
agreed to bring a new presentation to the next meeting. The possibility of
holding a MIB-specific meeting during the January T10 week was also discussed.
Chair's note: The MIB study group was scheduled for Monday morning.
4.6 SAM-2 Issues from Editors' Meeting [Weber]
George Penokie presented a question unearthed during the MIB work, "Why is
more than initiator device name allowed?" Jim Hafner noted that a SCSI device
might be capable of working in multiple protocols. Since several protocols
have different name formats, the SCSI device would end up with one name for
each protocol.
It was agreed to add a limitation of one initiator device name per protocol,
likewise for target device names.
In a related issue the initiator and target device names in a SCSI
target/initiator device will be combined to form a single name, subject to the
one per protocol rule as well.
George also asked if the target/initiator device initiator port name and
target port name can be combined in a single name. Jim Hafner responded by
noting that both iSCSI and SRP have different name definitions for initiator
and target ports, resulting in the need for separate, different names in the
architecture model.
Since the SAM-2 editors' meetings have completed their work, this item will be
removed from future agendas.
4.7 Unit attention issue (00-359 and 01-299) [Gardner/Weber]
Ralph Weber reported that his comments in 01-299r1 have been addressed in the
recent revisions of 01-359.
Ed Gardner presented the latest revision of the interlocked unit attention
proposal (00-359r7). The group requested changes in the text. Ed Gardner moved
that 00-359r8 (r7 as modified) be recommended for inclusion in SAM-2 and
SPC-3. Rob Elliott seconded the motion. In the absence of any objections, the
motion was approved unanimously.
4.8 SAM-2 Data Transfer Ordering Requirements (01-309) [Gardner]
Ed Gardner presented a proposal to clarify data transfer ordering requirements
in SAM-2. Several of the changes Ed proposed were viewed as requests that
previously agreed wording be properly installed in SAM-2 and the SAM-2 editor
agreed to make suitable changes in the next SAM-2 revision. Ed also noted a
misuse of 'current task' when 'enabled task' should be used in SPC-3 and the
editor agreed to correct those problems too.
Ed stated that a revised proposal will be prepared for the next meeting to
address those issues that were not resolved at this meeting.
4.9 SAM-2 SPC-3 Eliminate SCSI-2 references and describe CA (01-318)
[Elliott]
Rob Elliott presented a proposal to eliminate references to SCSI-2 in SAM-2
and SPC-3 (01-318r0). The group requested numerous changes during a page by
page review of the proposal and Rob agreed to prepare a new revision.
Rob Elliott moved that 01-318r1 (r0 as revised) be approved for inclusion in
SAM-2 and SPC-3. George Penokie seconded the motion. The motion passed on a
vote of 18:0:3.
4.10 Progress Indication with REQUEST SENSE (01-316) [Entzel]
Paul Entzel presented a question about the use of the IMMED (Immediate) bit
and REQUEST SENSE progress in tape commands (from 01-316r0). The issue was
whether reporting progress would be allowed for other initiators and for other
queued tasks while a FORMAT, ERASE or similar command is in progress. The
answer was yes.
Later in the meeting Paul requested the addition of a few new ASCQ definitions
under ASC 00h as proposed in 01-316r1. Paul Entzel moved that the ASCQ
definitions in 01-316r1 be recommended for SPC-3. Dave Peterson seconded the
motion. In the absence of any objections, the motion passed unanimously.
5. Command Set Topics
5.1 SCSI Device Memory Export Protocol (00-312) [Barry]
In the absence of Andrew Barry, discussion of this topic was deferred to the
next meeting.
5.2 SAN Management & Mode Pages (01-046) [Cummings]
Roger Cummings said that a project proposal has been generated but he felt
that further action needs to be deferred until the MIB structure gets better
focused.
5.3 REPORT ADDRESSABLE TARGETS well-known LUN Function [Terrell]
In the absence of Bill Terrell, discussion of this topic was deferred to the
next meeting.
5.4 SPC-3 letting persistent reservations ignore target ports (01-099)
[Elliott]
Rob Elliott presented a proposal to allow persistent reservations to be
processed across the multiple target ports on a device (01-099r4). Concerns
were raised about breaking the I_T_L nexus model and a recommendation was made
that the proposal be revised to have one Register service action perform
multiple registrations. Rob agreed to consider the recommendation and bring a
revised proposal to the next meeting.
5.5 SPC-3 letting persistent reservations ignore initiator ports (01-100)
[Elliott]
Rob Elliott presented a proposal to allow multiple initiator ports to register
with a single persistent reservation command (01-100r2). It was observed that
this proposal still requires one command per initiator port and questions were
raised about the relative benefits. Alternatives such as defining an Immediate
bit for registrations were suggested.
Rob stated that he would review the recommendations from the group and
consider whether or not to return with a revised proposal at the next meeting.
5.6 SPC-3 Request Sense Information field for long LBAs (01-199) [Elliott]
Rob Elliott presented 01-199r1, a proposal to cleanup several problems in the
format of the REQUEST SENSE data. The group expressed a preference for a
substantially restructured sense data format, in the vein of "break it one
last time now and fix it so that it will never have to break again". The most
significant problem was finding a way for the initiator to tell the target
that it can accept the new format and resolution of that issue was left open
with a slight preference for a Control mode page bit.
Rob agreed to develop a revised proposal for consideration at the next
meeting.
5.7 Access Controls for SPC-3 (the rewrite) (01-268) [Weber/Hafner]
Ralph Weber presented the Access Controls rewrite based on recommendations
|from the September working group (01-268r2). He noted that the rewrite now
focuses on defining the access controls coordinator as a well-known logical
unit. Several corrections requested by Jim Hafner were reviewed. In the last
few pages of the proposal, Ralph showed the additional changes needed to allow
the access controls coordinator to be addressed via LUN 0.
Ralph expressed a preference for not including access via LUN 0 in the final
proposal but Rob Elliott was concerned for the early implementers that were
already using LUN 0. The group reluctantly agreed that LUN 0 access should be
allowed.
Ralph Weber moved that 01-268r3 (r2 as modified) be recommended for inclusion
in SPC-3. Rob Elliott seconded the motion. The motion passed on a vote of
5:0:6.
5.8 Interlocking BUSY, RESERVATION CONFLICT and TASK SET FULL (01-267)
[Satran/Hafner]
Jim Hafner presented 01-267r1, a proposal to interlock BUSY, RESERVATION
CONFLICT, and TASK SET FULL status by allowing the initiator to instruct the
target to generate a unit attention condition when any such status is
returned. The intent is that application of the unit attention interlock (see
item 4.7) to such unit attention conditions will produce the desired interlock
effect. Concerns were raised about how it is guaranteed that both capabilities
are enabled and Jim demonstrated the requirements that produce that effect.
The group discussed an aspect of the proposal that would allow commands that
are not blocked by a reservation conflict to escape the unit attention. The
complexity introduced by this capability caused substantial confusion. Randy
Haggens was asked if iSCSI needed the complex feature and when he answered no
it was agreed that the proposal should be simplified to affect all 'in
transit' commands, leaving the initiator to sort everything out.
Jim agreed to revise the proposal. Charles Monia moved that 01-267r2 (r1 as
modified) be recommended for inclusion in SAM-2 and SPC-3. Dave Peterson
seconded the motion. In the absence of any objections, the motion passed
unanimously.
5.9 SBC-2 Long LBA PMI support for READ CAPACITY (01-246) [Elliott]
Due to the late hour, discussion of this topic was deferred to the next
meeting.
5.10 Report Supported Operation Codes Command (01-253) [Penokie]
Due to the late hour, discussion of this topic was deferred to the next
meeting.
5.11 Proposal for an additional Persistent Reservations Type in SPC-3
(01-204) [Cummings]
Roger Cummings presented a proposal for new types of persistent reservations
with the property that such reservations are 'owned' by all registered
initiators (01-204r1). Concerns were raised about the lack of specifics,
including details of the information reported by a READ RESERVATION service
action. It was suggested that the owner reservation key be set to zero for the
proposed new reservation types.
Roger agreed to consider the advice offered by the group and provide a revised
proposal for the next meeting.
5.12 Proposed change to UA requirement on SET DEVICE IDENTIFIER command
(01-305) [Paul Entzel]
Paul Entzel presented a proposal that would correct a defect in the definition
of the SET DEVICE IDENTIFIER command. The problem was that the definition as
written required establishing a `parameters have changed' unit attention even
when the command did not change the device identifier. Paul Entzel moved that
01-305r0 be recommended for inclusion in SPC-3. Rob Elliott seconded the
motion. In the absence of any objections, the motion passed unanimously.
5.13 SMC-2 INITIALIZE ELEMENT STATUS WITH RANGE command (01-308) [Elliott]
Due to the late hour, discussion of this topic was deferred to the next
meeting.
6. SCSI Protocol Topics
6.1 SRP Initiator Inactivity Timeout (01-038) [Simpson]
Cris Simpson requested that this item be removed from this and future agendas.
7. Old Business
All old business was handled on the topic scheduled agenda.
8. New Business
No new business was brought before this meeting.
9. Review of Documents
9.1 SBC-2 Review [Elliott]
Noting that no changes have been made in SBC-2 recently, Rob Elliott asked
discussion of this topic be deferred to the next meeting.
10. Review of Recommendations to the Plenary
Ralph Weber noted that the following recommendations have been made to the T10
plenary:
Replacing Task Identifiers in SAM-2 (01-196r1) [Weber] 25:0:0
Interlocked unit attention in SAM-2 and SPC-3 (00-359r8) [Gardner]
Eliminate SCSI-2 references and describe CA in SAM-2 and SPC-3 (01-318r1)
[Elliott]
Interlocking BUSY, RESERVATION CONFLICT and TASK SET FULL in SAM-2 and SPC-3
(01-267r2) [Satran/Hafner]
New ASCQ definitions for progress indication (01-316r1) [Entzel]
Access Controls for SPC-3 (the rewrite) (01-268r3) [Weber/ Hafner]
Proposed change to UA requirement on SET DEVICE IDENTIFIER command (01-305r0)
[Entzel]
11. Meeting Schedule
The next meeting of the SCSI Commands, Architecture, and Protocols Working
Group will be Wednesday, January 16, 2002 from 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. (or until all
agenda items are completed). The meeting will be at the Houston Marriott North
at Greenspoint (281-875-4000) in Houston, TX, hosted by Compaq.
12. Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 8:10 p.m. on Wednesday November 7, 2001.
--
John Lohmeyer Email: lohmeyer at t10.org
LSI Logic Corp. Voice: +1-719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr. Fax: +1-719-533-7183
Colo Spgs, CO 80907
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