Draft Minutes of Parallel SCSI WG - Sept 12, 2000

John Lohmeyer lohmeyer at t10.org
Tue Sep 19 13:36:30 PDT 2000


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <lohmeyer at t10.org>
*
A PDF of these minutes is available at:

   ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.00/00-306r0.pdf


Accredited Standards Committee*
National Committee for Information Technology Standards (NCITS)

                                                  Doc. No.: T10/00-306r0
                                                      Date: September 19, 2000
                                                  Reply to: John Lohmeyer

To:       T10 Membership
From:     Ralph Weber & John Lohmeyer
Subject:  Parallel SCSI Working Group Meeting -- September 12, 2000
           Huntington Beach, CA

Agenda
1.     Opening Remarks
2.     Approval of Agenda
3.     Attendance and Membership
4.     SPI-4 Physical Topics
4.1      Training Patterns
4.1.1      Getting Training Started in SPI-4 (00-324) [Penokie]
4.2      Timings
4.2.1      Proposal for revision of the timing tables and definitions in SPI-4
(00-323) [Milligan]
4.2.2      ATN timing for Paced Transfers (00-343) [Galloway]
4.2.3      Setup and Hold Diagrams (00-353) [Milligan]
4.3      Other SPI-4 Physical Topics
4.3.1      LVD Driver Balance for Ultra320 SCSI (00-319) [Uber]
4.3.2      Specifying signals at receiver using receiver equalization (00-223)
[Uber]
4.3.3      Cable Attenuation (00-235r0) [Uber]
4.3.4      Cable measurements and Calculated Signal Loss (00-276) [Manildi]
4.3.5      Calculated Signal Losses (00-227 and 00-246) [Aloisi]
4.3.6      SPI-4 - Assumptions for the Receiver and Driver levels (00-239)
[Aloisi]
4.3.7      Requirements for Measuring Receive Signals in SPI-4 and beyond
(00-149) [Ham]
4.3.8      Receiver Response Requirements (00-332) [Ham]
4.3.9      ATN timing for Paced Transfers () [Galloway]
4.3.10     Paced information unit timing description (00-336) [Penokie]
4.3.11     Periodic structures on SCSI buses (00-352) [Barnes]
4.3.12     The zero offset problem for receiver equalization (00-201)
[Bridgewater]
4.3.13     Losses on LVD Buses (00-331) [Uber]
4.3.14     Vn for OR-Tied Signals (00-320) [Moore]
4.3.15     Ultra320 First Pulse Noise Margin (00-346) [Uber]
4.3.16     SPI-4 Spec Proposal for Ultra320 (00-347) [Uber]
4.3.17     First Pulse and Attenuation Data (00-348) [Manildi]
4.3.18     Attenuation in Actual Subsystems (00-349) [Manildi]
4.3.19     Worst Case Signal Amplitude Calculations Spreadsheet (00-350)
[Manildi]
4.3.20     Comparison of Precomp and AAF (00-351) [Manildi]
4.4      Protocol
4.4.1      SPI-4 IU Handling Clean-up (00-335) [Penokie]
4.4.2      QAS without IU in SPI-4 (00-252) [Elliott]
4.4.3      Bidirectional data transfers in SPI-4 (00-314) [Elliott]
4.4.4      PPR/MESSAGE REJECT implied agreement (00-337) [Elliott]
5.     SPI-4 review [Penokie]
5.1      SPI-4 Clarifications (00-322) [Moore]
6.     Expanders and Domain Validation Topics
6.1      Report on the SCSI Domain Validation Meeting (00-305) [Lohmeyer]
7.     New Business
7.1      Error Corrections in ISO SPI-3 (Milligan)
8.     Meeting Schedule
9.     Adjournment

Results of Meeting

1.     Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer, the T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m.,
Tuesday, September 12, 2000.  He thanked Skip Jones of QLogic for hosting the
meeting.

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.


2.     Approval of Agenda

The draft agenda was approved with the following changes.

4.2.2      ATN timing for Paced Transfers (00-343) [Galloway]
4.3.14     Vn for OR-Tied Signals (00-320) [Moore]

The following items were added/revised during the course of the meeting:

4.2.3      Setup and Hold Diagrams (00-353) [Milligan]
4.3.15     Ultra320 First Pulse Noise Margin (00-346) [Evans]
4.3.16     SPI-4 Spec Proposal for Ultra320 (00-347) [Evans]
4.3.17     First Pulse and Attenuation Data (00-348) [Manildi]
4.3.18     Attenuation in Actual Subsystems (00-349) [Manildi]
4.3.19     Signal Calculations (00-350) [Manildi]
4.3.20     Comparison of Precomp and AAF (00-351) [Manildi]
7.1      Error Corrections in ISO SPI-3 (Milligan)


3.     Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for T10 membership.  Working group meetings are open to any
person or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of
work.  The following people attended the meeting:

          Name          S        Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Lawrence J. Lamers P  Adaptec, Inc.             ljlamers at ieee.org
Mr. Ron Roberts        A  Adaptec, Inc.             Ron_Roberts at adaptec.com
Mr. Vince Bastiani     V  Bass Technology           bass.tech at gte.net
                           Consulting
Mr. Bill Galloway      P  BREA Technologies, Inc.   billg at breatech.com
Mr. Edward Haske       P  CMD Technology            haske at cmd.com
Mr. Robert C. Elliott  P  Compaq Computer Corp.     Rob_Elliott at compuserve.
                                                     com
Dr. William Ham        A  Compaq Computer Corp.     bill_ham at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber     P  ENDL Texas                roweber at acm.org
Mr. Douglas Wagner     P  FCI                       dwagner at fciconnect.com
Mr. Eugene Lew         P  Fujitsu                   elew at fcpa.fujitsu.com
Mr. Dennis Moore       P  KnowledgeTek, Inc.        dmoore at ix.netcom.com
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  LSI Logic Corp.           lohmeyer at t10.org
Mr. Larry Barnes       V  LSI Logic Corp.           larry.barnes at lsil.com
Mr. Brian Day          V  LSI Logic Corp.           brian.day at lsil.com
Mr. Jeffrey J. Gauvin  V  LSI Logic Corp.           jeff.gauvin at lsil.com
Mr. William Petty      V  LSI Logic Corp.           william.petty at lsil.com
Mr. Chuck Grant        P  Madison Cable Corp.       cgrant at madisoncable.com
Mr. Glen Griessler     A  Molex Inc.                ggriessler at molex.com
Mr. Gregg Neely        O  NSTOR                     greggn at nstor.com
Mr. Richard Moore      A# QLogic Corp.              r_moore at qlc.com
Mr. Ting Li Chan       V  QLogic Corp.              t_chan at qlc.com
Mr. Richard L.         V  QLogic Corp.              r_romaniec at qlc.com
Romaniec
Mr. Tim Hsia           V  QLogic Corp.              t_hsia at qlc.com
Mr. Henry Kuo          V  QLogic Corp.              h_kuo at qlc.com
Mr. Mark Evans         P  Quantum Corp.             mark.evans at quantum.com
Mr. Bruce Leshay       V  Quantum Corp.             bleshay at tdh.qntm.com
Mr. Richard Uber       V  Quantum Corp.             duber at tdh.qntm.com
Mr. Gene Milligan      P  Seagate Technology        Gene_Milligan at notes.
                                                     seagate.com
Mr. Gerald Houlder     A  Seagate Technology        gerry_houlder at notes.
                                                     seagate.com
Mr. A. Bruce Manildi   V  Seagate Technology        bruce_manildi at notes.
                                                     seagate.com
Mr. Erich Oetting      P  Storage Technology Corp.  erich_oetting at stortek.com
Mr. Vit Novak          A  Sun Microsystems, Inc.    vit.novak at sun.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi     P  Texas Instruments         Paul_Aloisi at ti.com
Mr. Donald R. Getty    A# Texas Instruments         donald_getty at ti.com
Mr. Mike Kosco         V  Texas Instruments         mike at mvbuilders.com
Ms. Tanya Huynh        O  Thomas & Betts Corp.      tanya_Huynh@
                                                     tycoelectronics.com
Mr. Davin Stockwell    R  Thomas & Betts Corp.      dstockwell at thombetts.com
Mr. George O. Penokie  P  Tivoli Systems            gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. Ron Mathews        O  UNISYS Corporation        ronald.mathews at unisys.com

39 People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
              A,A# -  Alternate
              O    -  Observer
              L    -  Liaison
              V    -  Visitor
4.     SPI-4 Physical Topics

4.1    Training Patterns

4.1.1  Getting Training Started in SPI-4 (00-324) [Penokie]

George Penokie presented a proposal to clarify how training gets started.  The
group requested several changes.  George Penokie moved that 00-324r3 (r2 as
modified) be recommended for inclusion in SPI-4.  Bill Galloway seconded the
motion.  In the absence of any objections, the motion passed unanimously.

4.2    Timings

4.2.1  Proposal for revision of the timing tables and definitions in SPI-4
(00-323) [Milligan]

Gene Milligan reviewed the recent changes to the timing tables proposal
(00-323r3).  Minor corrections were requested.  Gene Milligan moved that
00-323r4 (r3 as modified) be recommended for inclusion in SPI-4.  Bill
Galloway seconded the motion.  In the absence of any objections, the motion
passed unanimously.

4.2.2  ATN timing for Paced Transfers (00-343) [Galloway]

Bill Galloway presented the timing requirements for ATN signaling in SPI-4
(00-343r1), explaining how the numbers were derived.  He also presented
wording changes to clarify timing on the P_CRCA signal.  Minor corrections
were requested and Bill agreed to revise the proposal.  Bill Galloway moved
that 00-343r2 (r1 as modified) be recommended for inclusion in SPI-4.  Gene
Milligan seconded the motion.  In the absence of any objections, the motion
passed unanimously.

4.2.3  Setup and Hold Diagrams (00-353) [Milligan]

Gene Milligan presented a proposal for changing the setup and hold diagrams in
SPI-4.  The group asked that the figures for Fast-80 speeds be removed from
the proposal.  Gene asked for and received the unanimous consent of the group
for recommending inclusion of 00-353r1 (r0 as modified) in SPI-4.

4.3    Other SPI-4 Physical Topics

4.3.1  LVD Driver Balance for Ultra320 SCSI (00-319) [Uber]

Richard Uber asked that this item be removed from future agendas.

4.3.2  Specifying signals at receiver using receiver equalization (00-223)
[Uber]

Richard Uber asked that this item be removed from future agendas.

4.3.3  Cable Attenuation (00-235r0) [Uber]

Richard Uber asked that this item be removed from future agendas.

4.3.4  Cable measurements and Calculated Signal Loss (00-276) [Manildi]

This item was carried over from the July and August meetings.  Bruce had
nothing new to add, so the topic will be removed from future agendas.

4.3.5  Calculated Signal Losses (00-227 and 00-246) [Aloisi]

Paul Aloisi reviewed the signal loss spreadsheet (00-227r9) and followed that
with assumptions and requirements proposed for SPI-4 (00-246r5).  Corrections
were requested and Paul agreed to make them.  Paul Aloisi moved that 00-246r6
(r5 as modified) with the receiver mask from 00-347r0 be recommended for
inclusion in SPI-4.  George Penokie seconded the motion.  Bill Ham stated that
Compaq would be voting against the proposal because of the three operating
environments that he views as inappropriate for a standard.  The motion passed
5:4:5.

4.3.6  SPI-4 - Assumptions for the Receiver and Driver levels (00-239)
[Aloisi]

This subject was covered under 4.3.5.

4.3.7  Requirements for Measuring Receive Signals in SPI-4 and beyond (00-149)
[Ham]

This topic was covered under 4.3.8.

4.3.8  Receiver Response Requirements (00-332) [Ham]

Bill Ham presented a proposal for specifying the behavior of a filtering
receiver.  Bill sought specific numbers to fill in TBD numbers in the proposal
and some data were offered.  Several corrections and changes were requested
and Bill agreed to revise the proposal.  Bill asked if the proposal could be
approved today, but requests were made to give time for review the proposal
with the engineers `at home'.

Bill agreed to provide a revised document for review in a few weeks.

4.3.9  ATN timing for Paced Transfers () [Galloway]

Because this topic concerns timing issues, it was moved to 4.2.2.

4.3.10 Paced information unit timing description (00-336) [Penokie]

George Penokie reviewed text destined for SPI-4 revision 1 that the group
asked to see separately (00-336r0).  The group requested several changes and
corrections.  George agreed to prepare a revision 1 for consideration.

4.3.11 Periodic structures on SCSI buses (00-352) [Barnes]

Larry Barnes presented an update on the signal transmission model approach to
SCSI bus properties first presented at the August working group meeting in
Denver.

4.3.12 The zero offset problem for receiver equalization (00-201)
[Bridgewater]

Larry Lamers requested that this item be removed from future agendas.

4.3.13 Losses on LVD Buses (00-331) [Uber]

Richard Uber asked that this item be removed from future agendas.

4.3.14 Vn for OR-Tied Signals (00-320) [Moore]

Richard Moore agreed to withdraw this proposal since the change was included
in Paul Aloisi's 00-246r6 proposal.

Chair's note: Since Paul's proposal was not approved by T10, this topic will
be kept on the agenda for the October 31st Parallel SCSI Working Group
meeting.

4.3.15 Ultra320 First Pulse Noise Margin (00-346) [Uber]

Richard Uber presented 00-346r0, Ultra320 First Pulse Noise Margin.  Richard
concluded that AAF works with worst-case bus signals and that pre-compensation
would not work with worst-case bus signals unless the bus parameters are
relaxed.

4.3.16 SPI-4 Spec Proposal for Ultra320 (00-347) [Uber]

Richard Uber presented 00-347r0, SPI-4 Spec Proposal for Ultra320, which
proposes specific changes he would like to make in the SPI-4 draft standard.

4.3.17 First Pulse and Attenuation Data (00-348) [Manildi]

Bruce Manildi presented an overview of measurement data; describing the
components used, the test equipment, and analysis techniques.  He also
presented specific data traces that he selected from the large collection of
data and data traces for cases requested by various individuals in the group.

4.3.18 Attenuation in Actual Subsystems (00-349) [Manildi]

Bruce Manildi presented 00-349r0, Attenuation in Actual Subsystems.  Bruce
concluded that backplanes with short ribbon cables do not need
pre-compensation nor AAF.  Subsystems with long cables need some sort of
frequency compensation.  No subsystem tested had a high-frequency loss of
greater than 30% including noise, crosstalk, and process variations.

Bruce invited people to people to use the Seagate lab to make their own
measurements and/or send him materials to measure.

4.3.19 Worst Case Signal Amplitude Calculations Spreadsheet (00-350) [Manildi]

Bruce Manildi reviewed his signal loss calculations and signal level proposals
for SPI-4.  He noted the group had already approved an equivalent proposal
under agenda item 4.3.5.  He concluded that pre-compensation works at worst
case extremes that will actually occur and that it has extra margin even under
these conditions.

4.3.20 Comparison of Precomp and AAF (00-351) [Manildi]

Bruce Manildi elected to not present this document at the meeting since
00-246r6 had already been recommended to T10.

4.4    Protocol

4.4.1  SPI-4 IU Handling Clean-up (00-335) [Penokie]

George Penokie presented a proposal to cleanup wording in the description of
information unit handling.  He noted that the genesis of the proposal was a
series of Reflector discussions about loopholes in the existing wording.  The
group requested several changes and George agreed to revise the proposal.
George Penokie moved that 00-335r1 (r0 as modified) be recommended for
inclusion in SPI-4.  Bill Galloway seconded the motion.  The motion passed on
a vote of 5:1:2.

4.4.2  QAS without IU in SPI-4 (00-252) [Elliott]

Rob Elliott presented a proposal to allow QAS without information units.  He
noted that only information unit devices could initiate a QAS, but that any
device can participate in a QAS arbitration.  He asked if the proposal  was
something worth pursuing to the development of specific wording and the group
recommended revising the proposal with specific wording changes.

4.4.3  Bidirectional data transfers in SPI-4 (00-314) [Elliott]

Rob Elliott presented a proposal for adding bidirectional data transfers in
SPI-4.  Rob's proposal contained specific SPI-4 changes to support
bidirectional transfers and the group discussed these specifics.

Bill Galloway asked if there was anyone present who wanted to do bidirectional
data transfers in data group (non-packetized) transfers.  No one present
supported defining bidirectional data group transfers.

Rob plans to prepare another revision based on the comments received from the
working group.

4.4.4  PPR/MESSAGE REJECT implied agreement (00-337) [Elliott]

Rob Elliott presented a proposal that attempted to close a loophole in the
case where a PPR message gets rejected.  Bill Galloway noted that the proposal
also has loophole.  The group discussed how best to revise the proposal and
Rob agreed to bring an improved proposal to the next meeting.


5.     SPI-4 review [Penokie]

5.1    SPI-4 Clarifications (00-322) [Moore]

Richard Moore presented a proposal for several wording enhancements in SPI-4
(00-322r1).  Larry Lamers moved that text content (minus the figure) of
00-322r1 be recommended for inclusion in SPI-4.  Bruce Manildi seconded the
motion.  George Penokie asked that the proposal be revised to state that
explicitly that the figure is not to be included in SPI-4.  The motion was
amended to state 00-322r2 (r1 as modified).  The amended motion passed on a
vote of 8:1:1.


6.     Expanders and Domain Validation Topics

6.1    Report on the SCSI Domain Validation Meeting (00-305) [Lohmeyer]

John Lohmeyer reported on the activities of the Domain Validation working
group (minutes in 00-305).


7.     New Business

7.1    Error Corrections in ISO SPI-3 (Milligan)

Gene Milligan asked if the group wished correct any of the errors in the ISO
version of SPI-3 based on knowledge developed so far in preparation of SPI-4.
The group recommended against making any changes in SPI-3.


8.     Meeting Schedule

The next meeting of the Parallel SCSI Working Group will be Tuesday October
31, 2000 commencing at 9:00 a.m. in Seaside, CA.


9.     Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 6:45 p.m. on Tuesday, September 12, 2000.


--
John Lohmeyer                  Email: lohmeyer at t10.org
LSI Logic Corp.                Voice: +1-719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr.              Fax: +1-719-533-7183
Colo Spgs, CO 80907

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