Draft Minutes of SCSI Working Group - March 10, 1999

John Lohmeyer lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
Wed Mar 17 11:52:52 PST 1999


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at symbios.com), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com>
*
A PDF version of these minutes is available at:

  ftp://ftp.symbios.com/pub/standards/io/t10/document.99/99-136r0.pdf


Accredited Standards Committee*
National Committee for Information Technology Standards (NCITS)

                                                   Doc. No.: T10/99-136r0
                                                       Date: March 17, 1999
                                                   Reply to: John Lohmeyer

To:       T10 Membership
From:     Ralph Weber / John Lohmeyer
Subject:  SCSI Working Group Meeting -- March 10, 1999
          Harrisburg, PA

Agenda
1.     Opening Remarks
2.     Approval of Agenda
3.     Attendance and Membership
4.     Physical Topics
4.1      Bus Width Determination (98-236r0) [Sippy]
5.     Protocol Topics
5.1      SAM-2 Review [Weber]
6.     Command Set Topics
6.1      SCSI Socket Services (SSS) Rev 0 Review [Parker]
6.2      Considerations for mode pages common to several LUNs (98-187r2)
[Houlder]
6.3      Method for defining very long command blocks (98-188r2/99-158r0)
[Houlder/Snively]
6.4      Device locks command (98-225r1) [Houlder]
6.5      Machine readable version control in SPC-2 (99-110r1) [Milligan]
6.6      Obsolete Communications Device Type [Oetting]
6.7      Obsolete Flag Bit (98-241r1) [Snively]
6.8      ECC Correction Spans >= 255 Bytes (reflector messages) [Houlder]
6.9      Conflicting Reserved Definitions (98-247) [Elliott]
6.10     Changes to INQUIRY (99-130) [Penokie]
6.11     Making REPORT LUNS act more like INQUIRY (99-144) [Snively]
6.12     Making TTD and CIOP obsolete (99-147) [Snively]
6.13     Interaction of persistent & legacy reservations (99-146) [Snively]
6.14     Extended Copy command (99-143) [Snively]
6.15     Send command for Processor devices [Lamers]
6.16     Fairness Bits to Control Fairness [Houlder]
6.17     Port Control mode page [Lamers/Weber]
6.18     Echo Buffer (98-184r6) [Lamers]
7.     Other Topics
7.1      Comments on Draft 14776-381 (SCSI OMC) (99-128) [Smith]
8.     Meeting Schedule
9.     Adjournment


Results of Meeting

1.     Opening Remarks

George Penokie, the T10 Vice-Chair, called the meeting to order at 10:35 a.m.,
Wednesday March 10, 1999.  He thanked John Hill and Beth Shutt of AMP for
hosting the meeting.

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.

2.     Approval of Agenda

The draft agenda was approved with the following additions and changes:

6.12     Making TTD and CIOP obsolete (99-147) [Snively]
6.13     Interaction of persistent & legacy reservations (99-146) [Snively]
6.14     Extended Copy command (99-143) [Snively]
6.15     Send command for Processor devices [Lamers]
6.16     Fairness Bits to Control Fairness (Houlder)
6.17     Port Control mode page (Lamers/Weber)
6.18     Echo Buffer (Lamers)

No agenda items were added during the course of the meeting.

3.     Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for T10 membership.  Working group meetings are open to any
person or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of
work.  The following people attended the meeting:

         Name          S        Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Lawrence J. Lamers P  Adaptec, Inc.             ljlamers at ieee.org
Mr. Elwood Parsons     V  AMP, Inc.                 etparson at amp.com
Mr. Bill Mable         P  Amphenol Interconnect     bmable at spectra.net
Mr. Bill Galloway      P  BREA Technologies, Inc.   billg at breatech.com
Mr. Francesco Liburdi  V  Circuit Assembly Corp.    fliburdi at circuitassembly.
                                                    com
Mr. Edward Haske       P  CMD Technology            haske at cmd.com
Mr. Robert C. Elliott  P  Compaq Computer Corp.     Robert.Elliott at compaq.com
Mr. Geoff Hoese        V  Crossroads Systems Inc.   gbh at crossroads.com
Mr. Neil Wanamaker     O  Crossroads Systems, Inc.  ntw at crossroads.com
Mr. Stephen K. Wilson  O  Crossroads Systems, Inc.  steve at crossroads.com
Mr. Ben-Koon Lin       P  Fujitsu (FCPA)            blin at fcpa.fujitsu.com
Mr. Nathan Hastad      O  General Dynamics          nathan.j.hastad at gd-is.com
Mr. Marcos Barrionuevo P  Harting, Inc. of N.       Marcos.Barrionuevo@
                          America                   harting.com
Mr. Brad Culp          T  Hewlett Packard Co.       brad-culp at hp.com
Mr. George Penokie     P  IBM Corp.                 gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. Hayden Smith       P  Lasercard Systems Corp.   hsmith at lasercard.com
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  LSI Logic Corp.           lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber     A  LSI Logic Corp.           roweber at acm.org
Mr. Robert Bellino     V  Madison Cable Corp.       rbellino at madisoncable.com
Mr. Pete McLean        P  Maxtor Corp.              pete_mclean at maxtor.com
Mr. Charley Riegger    A  Maxtor Corp.              charles_riegger at maxtor.
                                                    com
Mr. Martin Ogbuokiri   O  Molex Inc.                mogbuokiri at molex.com
Mr. Brian McKean       P  Mylex Corp.               brianm at mylexboulder.com
Mr. Edward A. Gardner  P  Ophidian Designs          eag at ophidian.com
Mr. Skip Jones         P  QLogic Corp.              sk_jones at qlc.com
Mr. Mark Evans         P  Quantum Corp.             mark.evans at quantum.com
Mr. Gene Milligan      P  Seagate Technology        Gene_Milligan at notes.
                                                    seagate.com
Mr. Gerald Houlder     A  Seagate Technology        Gerry_Houlder at notes.
                                                    seagate.com
Mr. Robert Morris      P  Silicon Systems, Inc.     bob.morris at ti.com
Mr. Paresh Sheth       V  Silicon Systems, Inc.     paresh.sheth at ti.com
Mr. Erich Oetting      P  Storage Technology Corp.  erich_oetting at stortek.com
Mr. Robert N. Snively  P  Sun Microsystems          bob.snively at sun.com
                          Computer Co
Mr. Vit Novak          A  Sun Microsystems, Inc.    vit.novak at sun.com
Mr. Kenneth J. Hallam  P  UNISYS Corporation        ken.hallam at unisys.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi     P  Unitrode Corporation      aloisi at unitrode.com
Mr. Donald R. Getty    A  Unitrode Corporation      gettd at unitrode.com

36 People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
             A,A# -  Alternate
             O    -  Observer
             L    -  Liaison
             V    -  Visitor

4.     Physical Topics

4.1    Bus Width Determination (98-236r0) [Sippy]

Skip Jones reported no additional information on this topic.  The group agreed
to defer this topic to the May meeting, after which it will be dropped if
there is no further activity.

5.     Protocol Topics

5.1    SAM-2 Review [Weber]

Ralph Weber reported no progress on SAM-2 and requested that this topic be
deferred to the next meeting.

6.     Command Set Topics

6.1    SCSI Socket Services (SSS) Rev 0 Review [Parker]

John Lohmeyer reported that Keith Parker stated an intention to attend this
meeting.  The group expressed concerns that no real progress has been made on
this project.  The group discussed canceling the project if no progress is
made by the May meetings.

6.2    Considerations for mode pages common to several LUNs (98-187r2)
[Houlder]

Gerry Houlder reported that the creation of separate mode pages for port and
LUN control mode pages renders further discussion on this topic unnecessary.

6.3    Method for defining very long command blocks (98-188r2/99-158r0)
[Houlder/Snively]

Bob Snively presented an overview of potential FCP-2 and SPI-3 changes to
support long CDBs.  The group discussed the data formats presented and
generally agreed with them.  Bob agreed to document his proposal in 99-158r0.
In the absence of any objections, the working group recommended that 99-158r0
be approved by T10 for inclusion in SPI-3 and FCP-2.

Gerry Houlder reviewed his proposal for changes in SAM-2 and SPC-2.  It was
agreed that unused Encryption Identifier values would be reserved.  In the
absence of any objections, the working group recommended that 98-188r2 be
approved by T10 for inclusion in SAM-2 and SPC-2, with the editor making the
change agreed to by the group.

6.4    Device locks command (98-225r1) [Houlder]

Gerry Houlder reported on desired changes in the proposal to meet needs
identified during prototype development.  He stated that delivery of a final
proposal would be deferred pending completion of the development work.  The
group agreed to consider this topic at the May meetings.

6.5    Machine readable version control in SPC-2 (99-110r1) [Milligan]

Gene reviewed the proposal, starting with changes to the Inquiry data version
field.  The group discussed the proposal and how it would be incorporated in
SPC-2.  In the absence of any objections, the working group recommended that
99-110r1 be approved by T10 for inclusion in SPC-2, with the editor making the
changes agreed to by the group.

6.6    Obsolete Communications Device Type [Oetting]

Erich described a recommendation from the SSC working group that the
communications device type be made obsolete in SSC.  No one present objected.
It was noted that removing the communications device type from SCC would leave
SCSI-2 as the definition for the device type.

6.7    Obsolete Flag Bit (98-241r1) [Snively]

Bob Snively reviewed the proposal to make the Flag bit obsolete in SAM-2.  In
the absence of any objections, the group recommended 98-241r1 be approved by
T10 for inclusion in SAM-2.

6.8    ECC Correction Spans >= 255 Bytes (reflector messages) [Houlder]

Gerry Houlder described a problem he encountered with the one-byte correction
span field in the Read-Write Error Recovery mode page and the Verify Error
Recovery mode page.  The number of bits corrected is increasing to a size
larger than the field will accommodate.  Reflector discussions have suggested
using 255 as an indication that the size is larger than can be reported.  He
noted that use of 255 would mean that determination of the real value would
lie outside the scope of the standard.  The group expressed no concerns with
such a limitation.

The group discussed the problems with changing SBC, when there is no SBC-2
project proposal.  The group suggested handling this problem in a
vendor-specific manner until an SBC-2 project is initiated.

6.9    Conflicting Reserved Definitions (98-247) [Elliott]

Rob Elliott presented detailed concerns with the meaning of the "reserved"
keyword.  His two concerns were lack of consistency in the definition and
definitions that prohibit validity checking in RBC, MMC-2, and SBP-2.  The
group discussed whether and how Rob might resolve his concerns.  Ralph Weber
agreed to adopt the SPI-3 wording for the `reserved' keyword in SPC-2 and
SAM-2.

6.10   Changes to INQUIRY (99-130) [Penokie]

George Penokie presented a proposal to add SPI-3 information to the standard
Inquiry data.  The group noted that the CRCS field was no longer needed, due
to the fact that doing DT requires CRC.  George accepted corrections to the
proposal.  In the absence of any objections, the working group recommended
that the revised proposal (99-130r1) be approved by T10 for inclusion in
SPC-2.

At the request of Gene Milligan and others, George was directed to change QA
to QAS in SPI-3, and Ralph was directed to edit 99-130 in a similar manner.

6.11   Making REPORT LUNS act more like INQUIRY (99-144) [Snively]

Bob Snively proposed SPC-2 and SAM-2 changes concerning the REPORT LUNS
command.  The group proposed corrections to the proposal.  Bob agreed to
revise the proposal and present it with revisions at the next working group
meeting.

6.12   Making TTD and CIOP obsolete (99-147) [Snively]

Bob Snively proposed that Target Transfer Disable and Continue I/O Process
messages be made obsolete in SPI-3.  Larry Lamers stated that CIOP is an
anticipated requirement in the next generation parallel protocol.  George
Penokie noted that use of CIOP without TTD would be a violation of the
standard.  Larry needed additional research to describe the specifics of the
proposed CIOP usage.  Bob and Larry agreed to defer final handling of the
proposal to the May meetings.

6.13   Interaction of persistent & legacy reservations (99-146) [Snively]

Bob Snively described the history through which requirements on the conflicts
between RESERVE/RELEASE and Persistent Reservations explicitly stated in SPC
had not been brought forward in the text recently incorporated in SPC-2.  The
group requested that the words "mutually exclusive" be struck from the
proposal and Bob agreed.  In the absence of any objections, the working group
recommended that the revised proposal (99-146r1) be approved by T10 for
inclusion in SPC-2.

6.14   Extended Copy command (99-143) [Snively]

Steve Wilson described the consideration given to the proposal in the FC-Tape
meeting.  After discussing the effects of incorporating the changes in SSC or
SPC-2, the group decided that SPC-2 would be the better location.  Ralph
recommended 83h and 84h for operation codes and 0Eh for the mode page, leaving
the function available to all device types except CD-ROM and DVD (MMC-2)
devices.  In the absence of any objections, the working group recommended that
99-143r0 be approved by T10 for inclusion in SPC-2.

Chair's note:  At T10, the two-week rule was invoked, blocking action on this
proposal until the May meeting.

6.15   Send command for Processor devices [Lamers]

Larry described an instance where a processor device implementation does not
implement the Send command.  He requested the group support making the Send
command optional in the Processor device type model.  The group discussed
known implementations of processor devices.  It was noted that the processor
device type is the SCSI equivalent of the "other" device type.  Larry agreed
to study the need more completely, and if appropriate, bring a written
proposal to the next working group meeting.

6.16   Fairness Bits to Control Fairness [Houlder]

Gerry Houlder informed the group of a proposal for SPI-3 to require the FARd,
FAWrt, and FAStat to all have the same value (zero or one) in SPI-3 uses of
the Disconnect/Reconnect mode pages.  George Penokie requested that a written
proposal be available for consideration at the April SPI-3 working group
meeting.

6.17   Port Control mode page [Lamers/Weber]

Larry Lamers described the Synchronous Transfer Timer field and his plans for
including the mode page and field in SPI-3.  George Penokie noted that action
on this proposal needs to be brought forward at the April SPI-3 working group
meeting.

Ralph Weber and Larry Lamers reminded the group of a discussion regarding the
addition of a protocol type field to the two protocol specific mode pages.
Ralph noted that generic definitions of the two protocol specific mode pages
have been added to SPC-2.  He requested and received a working group
recommendation to add a protocol identifier field to the two generic mode page
definitions.

6.18   Echo Buffer (98-184r6) [Lamers]

Larry Lamers reviewed the history of the echo buffer proposal, including
changing the location of the buffer capacity field which produced 98-184r6.
In the absence of any objections, the working group recommended that 98-184r6
be approved by T10 for inclusion in SPC-2.

7.     Other Topics

7.1    Comments on Draft 14776-381 (SCSI OMC) (99-128) [Smith]

Hayden Smith presented the comments resolution document for ISO 14776-381, the
optical card memory device.  The group suggested improvements for some of the
comments resolutions.  In the absence of any objections, the working group
unanimously recommended that the revised comments resolution document
(99-128r1) be approved by T10 as a basis for the ballot comments on CD
14776-381.

8.     Meeting Schedule

The next meeting of the SCSI Working Group will be Wednesday, May 5, 1999 from
9 a.m. to 7 p.m. (or until all agenda items are completed).  The meeting will
be at the Holiday Inn "The Center of NH" (603-625-1000) in Manchester, NH
hosted by Hitachi Cable Manchester.

9.     Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 5:00 p.m. on Wednesday March 10, 1999.


--
John Lohmeyer                  Email: lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
LSI Logic Corp.                Voice: +1-719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr.              Fax: +1-719-533-7036
Colo Spgs, CO 80907              BBS: +1-719-533-7950

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