Draft Minutes of SPI-3 Working Group Meeting -- July 12-13, 1999

John Lohmeyer lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
Tue Jul 20 15:07:09 PDT 1999

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at symbios.com), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com>
A PDF copy of these minutes is available at:


Accredited Standards Committee*
National Committee for Information Technology Standards (NCITS)

                                               Doc. No.: T10/99-200r0
                                                   Date: July 20, 1999
                                                    Reply to: John Lohmeyer

To:      T10 Membership
From:    Ralph Weber & John Lohmeyer
Subject: SPI-3 Working Group Meeting -- July 12-13, 1999
         Colorado Springs, CO


1.     Opening Remarks
2.     Approval of Agenda
3.     Attendance and Membership
4.     SPI-3 Topics
4.1      Review of SPI-3 working draft [Penokie]
4.2      Normal Arbitration Fairness Control in SPI-3 (99-160r3)
4.3      Implied Assumptions in SPI-3 Timing Budget (99-127r6) [Aloisi]
4.4      Asynchronous Information Protection (99-119r6) [Evans/Leshay]
4.5      Proposal to change MSE High-Z Current Specification in SPI-3
(99-187r1) [Lohmeyer]
4.6      Change CRC timing values (99-185r2) [Elliott & Childs]
4.7      SPI-3 Table Restructuring (99-188r0) [Smith]
4.8      Release Glitch Management for QAS (99-191r0) [Moore]
4.9      Packetized error handling changes in SPI-3 (99-212r1) [Penokie]
4.10     "Cable Stuff" (99-111r3 and 98-219r4) [Ham]
5.     SPI-4 Topics
5.1      Staged Contact Resistance (98-240r0) [Herrmann]
5.2      Load Compensation [Novak]
5.3      Cable/System Simulation Issues [Wallace]
5.4      Next Generation Cable Performance [Ham]
5.5      SCSI out of band communications method (99-213) [Petty]
6.     New Business
6.1      Domain Validation TR Project Proposal (99-214r0) [Lamers]
7.     Meeting Schedule
8.     Adjournment

Results of Meeting

1.     Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer, the T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 1:10 p.m., Monday
July 12, 1999.  He thanked LSI Logic for hosting the meeting.

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.

2.     Approval of Agenda

The draft agenda was approved with the following additions and changes:

4.3      Implied Assumptions in SPI-3 Timing Budget (99-127r6) [Aloisi]

The following agenda items were added or revised during the course of the

4.10     "Cable Stuff" (99-111r3 and 98-219r4) [Ham]
6.     New Business
6.1      Domain Validation TR Project Proposal (99-214) [Lamers]

3.     Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for T10 membership.  Working group meetings are open to any
person or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of
work.  The following people attended the meeting:

         Name          S        Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Lawrence J. Lamers P  Adaptec, Inc.             ljlamers at ieee.org
Mr. Vincent Bastiani   A# Adaptec, Inc.             bastiani at corp.adaptec.com
Mr. Wally Bridgewater  A# Adaptec, Inc.             wally at eng.adaptec.com
Mr. Robert Frey        O  Advansys                  bobf at advansys.com
Mr. Elwood Parsons     A  AMP, Inc.                 etparson at amp.com
Mr. Bill Mable         P  Amphenol Interconnect     bmable at spectra.net
Mr. Gregg Neely        P  Andataco                  greggn at andataco.com
Mr. Ron Roberts        A  Apple Computer            rkroberts at aol.com
Mr. Douglas Wagner     P  Berg Electronics          wagnerdl at bergelect.com
Mr. Joseph Basista     O  C&M Corp.
Mr. Dennis Lang        A  Circuit Assembly Corp.    dennisl at circuitassembly.
Mr. Edward Haske       P  CMD Technology            haske at cmd.com
Mr. Robert C. Elliott  P  Compaq Computer Corp.     Robert.Elliott at compaq.com
Dr. William Ham        A  Compaq Computer Corp.     bill.ham at digital.com
Mr. Charles Tashbook   P  Dallas Semiconductor      charles.tashbook at dalsemi.
Mr. Ricardo Dominguez  O  Dell Computer             ricardo_dominguez at dell.

Mr. Keith W. Parker    V  Diogenes SCSI             diogenes at europa.com
Mr. Paul Navarrez      V  FCI/Berg
Mr. Stephen Jarvis     O  Foxconn
Mr. Don Soracco        O  Foxconn I/O
Mr. Eugene Lew         A  Fujitsu                   elew at fcpa.fujitsu.com
Mr. Ben-Koon Lin       P  Fujitsu (FCPA)            blin at fcpa.fujitsu.com
Mr. Robert Starr       V  Hewlett Packard Co.       rstarr at hp.com
Ms. Jacqueline Sylvia  A  Hitachi Cable Manchester  jsylvia at hcm.hitachi.com
Mr. Anthony Yang       P  Hitachi Storage Products  anthony.yang at hal.hitachi.
Mr. George O. Penokie  P  IBM Corp.                 gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. Louis Grantham     P  Linfinity Micro           lgrantham at linfinity.com
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  LSI Logic Corp.           lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber     A  LSI Logic Corp.           roweber at acm.org
Mr. Frank Gasparik     V  LSI Logic Corp.           frank.gasparik at lsil.com
Mr. Alan Littlewood    V  LSI Logic Corp.           alanl at lsil.com
Mr. David Steele       V  LSI Logic Corp.           david.steele at lsil.com
Mr. Larry Barnes       V  LSI Logic Corp.           larry.barnes at lsil.com
Mr. Barry Caldwell     V  LSI Logic Corp.           barry.caldwell at lsil.com
Mr. William Petty      V  LSI Logic Corp.           william.petty at lsil.com
Mr. Arthur G. Rodgers  V  LSI Logic Corp.           art.rodgers at lsil.com
Ms. Jie Fan            P  Madison Cable Corp.       jfan at madisoncable.com
Mr. Chuck Grant        A  Madison Cable Corp.       cgrant at madisoncable.com
Mr. Pete McLean        P  Maxtor Corp.              pete_mclean at maxtor.com
Mr. Robert Griswold    V  Microsoft                 rogris at microsoft.com
Mr. Martin Ogbuokiri   O  Molex Inc.                mogbuokiri at molex.com
Mr. Dean Wallace       A  QLogic Corp.              d_wallace at qlc.com
Mr. Richard Moore      V  QLogic Corp.              r_moore at qlc.com
Mr. Ting Li Chan       V  QLogic Corp.              t_chan at qlc.com
Mr. Mark Evans         P  Quantum Corp.             mark.evans at quantum.com
Mr. Bruce Leshay       V  Quantum Corp.             bleshay at tdh.qntm.com
Mr. Richard Uber       V  Quantum Corp.             duber at tdh.qntm.com
Mr. Gene Milligan      P  Seagate Technology        Gene_Milligan at notes.
Mr. Gerald Houlder     A  Seagate Technology        Gerry_Houlder at notes.
Mr. Daniel (Dan) F.    O  Seagate Technology        daniel_f_smith at notes.
Smith                                               seagate.com
Mr. Van Ton            V  Seagate Technology        van_t_ton at seagate.com
Mr. Bill Gintz         V  Seus, Inc.                wcgintz at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Robert Morris      P  Silicon Systems, Inc.     bob.morris at ti.com
Mr. Stephen G. Finch   A  Silicon Systems, Inc.     steve.finch at tus.ssi1.com
Mr. Paresh Sheth       V  SPG / TI                  paresh.sheth at ti.com
Mr. Jeffrey Schroeder  O  ST Microelectronics       jeffrey.schroeder at st.com
Mr. Vit Novak          A  Sun Microsystems, Inc.    vit.novak at sun.com
Mr. Bruce Pearman      V  Trimm Technologies        bpearman at trimm.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi     P  Unitrode Corporation      aloisi at unitrode.com
Mr. Donald R. Getty    A  Unitrode Corporation      gettd at unitrode.com
Mr. Jeffrey L.         P  Western Digital           Jeffrey.L.Williams at wdc.
Williams                  Corporation               com

61 People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
             A,A# -  Alternate
             O    -  Observer
             L    -  Liaison
             V    -  Visitor

4.     SPI-3 Topics

4.1    Review of SPI-3 working draft [Penokie]

During the review, the group discussed increasing the data length field size
|from three to four bytes in the SPI L_Q information unit.  The straw poll was
a 3:3 draw and George took no action to make a change.  George Penokie

recommended that anyone interested in increasing the field size bring a
proposal to the working group.

The group reviewed all the editor's notes.  All the comments from Gerry
Houlder, Bruce Leshay, and Paul Aloisi were discussed.  George agreed to
complete SPI-3 revision 8 for distribution as soon as possible.

4.2    Normal Arbitration Fairness Control in SPI-3 (99-160r3)

Rob Elliott presented the SPI-specific arbitration fairness proposal.  Jeff
Williams expressed concerns that the agreement from the May meeting had been
dropped out of the proposal.  In particular, Jeff favored the fairness counter
discussed in May, but Rob expressed the belief that the May group had agreed
on the proposal he was presenting.  No changes were made in the proposal.  On
a vote of 11:1:4, the group recommended that 99-160r3 be approved for
inclusion in SPI-3.

4.3    Implied Assumptions in SPI-3 Timing Budget (99-127r6) [Aloisi]

Paul Aloisi reported on the results of the special meeting on 26 & 27 May in
Colorado Springs.  Concerns were raised regarding the use of the word `stable'
in the timing diagram, but it was felt that a smaller discussion group could
devise wording that did not rely on `stable'.  The square edges on the
receiver mask diagram left open the possibility of very large rates of change
in signal waveforms and how best the restrict the behavior was discussed.
Paul retired to the hall to develop a new revision.

Paul revised the proposal, producing r7, which the group discussed.
Additional revisions were requested.  Paul generated a draft r8, containing
the requested changes.  The group discussed the measurement of signal change
rates in the receiver mask diagram and agreed on changes to r8.

Paul Aloisi moved that 99-127r8 be recommended for inclusion in SPI-3.  Wally
Bridgewater seconded the motion.  In the absence of any objections, the group
unanimously recommended that 99-127r8 be approved by T10 for inclusion in

4.4    Asynchronous Information Protection (99-119r6) [Evans/Leshay]

Mark Evans reviewed the changes in the proposal since r4.  Gene Milligan asked
about the inclusion of information on the error detection properties of the
proposed CRC code and was shown where that information is present in the

Mark Evans moved that the working group recommend 99-119r6 for inclusion in
SPI-3 as an informative annex.  Gene Milligan seconded the motion.

George Penokie presented a rebuttal to the proposal (that he had posted to the
T10 reflector) showing that there is no technical need for the proposed CRC

The motion passed 6:4:10.

4.5    Proposal to change MSE High-Z Current Specification in SPI-3 (99-187r1)

Gene Milligan questioned why the figure covers operating ranges that should
not occur in devices built to the requirements in other parts of the standard.
It was noted that devices built to previous standards might operate in these

The group asked that the slope be removed from the figure and John agreed,
noting that the effect would be to eliminate the figure and to return to his
original proposal of just reducing the voltage range on the leakage current
specification to 0 to 3 volts.  Wally Bridgewater asked for 3.01 volts to
avoid a step in the active negation driver specification and John agreed.

John revised the proposal, producing 99-187r2.  In the absence of any
objections, the group unanimously recommended that 99-187r2 be approved for
inclusion in SPI-3.

4.6    Change CRC timing values (99-185r2) [Elliott & Childs]

Rob Elliott presented three related changes requested by bus expander
designers.  In the absence of any objections, the group unanimously
recommended that 99-185r2 be approved for inclusion in SPI-3.

4.7    SPI-3 Table Restructuring (99-188r0) [Smith]

Dan Smith presented a proposal for changing the SPI-3 paragraphs supporting
tables 15 and 17.  The group compared the two tables and noted conflicts
between them and then worked toward resolving the conflicts by changing

aspects of table 15.  Paul Aloisi noted that table 15 is the `smoke out'
table, but those words don't appear around table 15.  The group developed new
wording for the title and contents of table 15.

The group substantially reworked other parts of the proposal too.

Dan prepared r1 and the group reviewed it.  Paul Aloisi moved that 99-188r1 be
recommended for inclusion in SPI-3.  Dan Smith seconded the motion.  The
motion passed 7:2:0.

4.8    Release Glitch Management for QAS (99-191r0) [Moore]

Richard Moore presented a proposal to handle release glitches during QAS.  He
noted that the problem he was trying to address had been surfaced during a
recent working group meeting.  The group agreed to adopt the second
alternative in the proposal and made changes to the text of that alternative.
Richard agreed to provide a revised proposal containing the changes.  In the
absence of any objections, the group unanimously recommended that T10 approve
99-191r1 (r0 as revised) for inclusion in SPI-3.

During preparation of r1, Richard noticed an additional needed correction.  He
presented this change and the complete revised proposal to the group and no
comments were made.  In the absence of any objections, the group unanimously
recommended that T10 approve 99-191r1 (as presented) for inclusion in SPI-3.

4.9    Packetized error handling changes in SPI-3 (99-212r1) [Penokie]

George Penokie described changes to tighten initiator and target handling of
failures in packetized mode, with specific emphasis on failures that occur
when the nexus is not fully formed.  The group requested one change in the
proposal and George agreed to prepare a r2.  In the absence of any objections,
the group unanimously recommended that 99-212r2 (r1 as revised) be approved
for inclusion in SPI-3.

4.10   "Cable Stuff" (99-111r3 and 98-219r4) [Ham]

Bill Ham presented two proposals for incorporation in SPI-3.  99-111r3
proposes normative changes for cable performance.  98-219r4 proposes an
additional normative annex that describes how to perform the performance tests
made normative by 99-111r3.  In introducing the proposal, Bill noted that
adoption of the proposal will have the effect of placing some existing cables
in violation of the standard.

Bill reviewed the content of 99-111r3 in detail.  Concerns were raised that
extended distance requirements were not strict enough.  Bill Ham and Larry
Barnes presented a case for why the requirements were appropriate for SPI-3.
Part of the case concerned the fact that the requirement and associated test
are very new to SCSI and the body of test results data is not yet sufficient
to support setting a stricter requirement.

Bill Ham moved that the working group recommend incorporation of the technical
content of 99-111r3 in SPI-3 upon acceptance of 99-219r4.  Vit Novak seconded
the motion.  The motion passed on a vote of 18:1:2.
5.     SPI-4 Topics

5.1    Staged Contact Resistance (98-240r0) [Herrmann]

George Penokie reported that activity on this topic has moved to SFF and asked
that this topic be removed from future agendas.

5.2    Load Compensation [Novak]

Vit Novak presented new simulation results for load compensation.  He agreed
to provide his presentation to John for the mailing.  Previous data from Vit
on this topic is in 98-239r2.

5.3    Cable/System Simulation Issues [Wallace]

Bill Ham reported on the activities of the interconnect modeling working group
meeting in Manchester (minutes in 99-205).  He reported that the group plans
future meetings on July 29 in Manchester, on September 1 in Colorado Springs,
CO, September 29 on in Irvine, CA.

5.4    Next Generation Cable Performance [Ham]

Bill Ham requested that discussion of this topic be deferred to the September

5.5    SCSI out of band communications method (99-213) [Petty]

Bill Petty presented a preliminary proposal for communicating with bus
expanders.  The group discussed some aspects of the proposal and identified

open issues.  Alternate communications mechanisms were proposed, including
assignment of a bus ID to the expander.  Bill noted that the limit of 16 IDs
on one SCSI bus could become a severe configuration limitation if some of
those bus IDs had to be assigned to expanders.  Also, his proposal supports a
broadcast mechanism for talking to all expanders at once; this is not possible
by just assigning normal device IDs.

6.     New Business

6.1    Domain Validation TR Project Proposal (99-214r0) [Lamers]

Larry Lamers presented a project proposal for a Technical Report on Domain
Validation.  He noted that Adaptec will volunteer an editor for the project,
in the absence of other volunteers.  Larry stated that the proposal would be
presented again to the General SCSI Working Group, where a recommendation for
T10 approval would be sought.

7.     Meeting Schedule

The next meeting of the SPI-3/SPI-4 Working Group will be Monday, September
13, 1999 commencing at 1 p.m. recessing on Monday evening and continuing until
6 p.m. on Tuesday, September 14, 1999 at the Hilton Waterfront Hotel
(714-960-7873) in Huntington Beach, CA hosted by QLogic Corp.

A SPI-3 editing session is tentatively scheduled in Rochester, MN on Monday,
August 2, 1999 with T11.

8.     Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 6:30 p.m. on Tuesday July 13, 1999.

John Lohmeyer                  Email: lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
LSI Logic Corp.                Voice: +1-719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr.              Fax: +1-719-533-7036
Colo Spgs, CO 80907              BBS: +1-719-533-7950

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