FC-TAPE Minutes, April 14-15, 1999, Palm Springs

STEWART_R_WYATT at HP-Boise-om2.om.hp.com STEWART_R_WYATT at HP-Boise-om2.om.hp.com
Fri Apr 16 09:59:45 PDT 1999

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at symbios.com), posted by:
* STEWART_R_WYATT at HP-Boise-om2.om.hp.com
     Joint T11/T10 FC-TAPE AdHoc Meeting Minutes       T11/99-231v0
     April 14 and 15, 1999 - Palm Springs, California
     Stewart Wyatt, Hewlett Packard, FC_TAPE Secretary, 
     stewart_wyatt at hp.com, 208-396-3594
     1. Introductions: Group
     2. Approval of this Agenda: T11/99-170v0 Group, approved as amended
     3. Approval of 3/9 Minutes: T11/99-147v0 Stewart Wyatt, approved
     4. Review Old Action Items: Stewart Wyatt
     Action items carried over from before the March meeting:
     #1. Dave Peterson/Bob Snively - Update the error recovery 
     documentation to resolve the time-out for ELS: Completed
     #2. Group - Resolve the issue of signalling support for FC-Tape error 
     recovery, CRN support and data overlay in either/or inquiry data, mode 
     pages, PRLI or by some other means. Completed
     #3. Bob Snively - Consider whether SRR is SCSI specific. Put in an 
     annex in FCP-2 for inclusion later in the FC-FS. Completed
     #4. Dave Peterson - Report the omission of BLS time-out in FC-PH. 
     #5. Dave Peterson - Consider modifying the tape model to require that 
     the tape power up uninitialized, unloaded state. SSC issue. Completed
     #6. Dave Baldwin - Investigate eliminating TPRLO. Rejected.
     #7. Dave Peterson/group - Resolution of need for authentication 
     documentation. Completed - referred to FC-FS see minutes.
     #8. Dave Peterson will attempt to document EOD behavior more precisely 
     in the SSC. Completed
     Action items from the last meeting (March).
     #1. Dave Peterson - Several reviewers noticed problems with the latest 
     draft of the profile. Check the master pages for revision and spelling 
     in the headers. In addition there are many cases of missing letters. 
     These usually occur at the end of the line but sometimes occur in the 
     middle of a line as well. Fixed
     #2. Dale Lafollette - Check on status of new TapeAlert flags. The 
     editor now has a direct contact. See the minutes. 
     #3. Stewart Wyatt - Bob Snively questioned how TapeAlert flags are 
     cleared. He felt the flag should not be cleared until the underlying 
     cause had been corrected. He felt the text was unclear. Stewart will 
     forward his concerns to Stephen Gold for comment. Completed - Bob is 
     still unhappy and will post his issues to the reflector for review by 
     the TapeAlert working group. See the new action items.
     #4. Dave Peterson - Clean up TapeAlert description using appropriate 
     standards text. Completed
     #5 Erich Oetting - Consider specifying the compression algorithm like 
     supported density is specified. Forwarded to next meeting.
     #6 Stewart Wyatt - Post Fibre Channel tape connector specification to 
     the reflector before the next meeting. Completed
     #7 Bob Snively - Provide an updated copy of the FCP-2 by March 19th. 
     #8 Dave Peterson - Provide an updated copy of FC-TAPE on or before 
     April 1. Post issues to the reflector. Completed
     #9 Group - Review letter ballot comments and post disagreements to the 
     reflector. No postings were made.
     #10 Stewart Wyatt - Post action items to the reflector two weeks 
     before the next meeting. Completed
     #11 Dave Peterson - See item 5 in the minutes for changes to the data 
     compression related mode pages. Completed
     #12 Dave Peterson - See item 7 in the minutes for changes to the SRR 
     text description. Completed
     5. FC-TAPE Document Review: T11/99-069v2 and T11/99-092v2 Dave 
     Dale LaFollette led the group through a page by page review of the 
     latest draft of the proposal. The changes were mostly editorial in 
     nature and are listed below.
     Page 2 and 3: Reference numbers incorrect
     Page 4 3.1.6 Login_BB_Credit include FLOGI and FDISC
     Page 4: Title bold and cross reference errors in 3.1.12 and 
     Page 6 Removed second sentence after 3.3 heading 
     Page 22 SRR is now an FC-4 Link Service. So it needs to be in a table 
     of its own.
     Page 23: Note 3 PRLO misspelled
     Page 25: Take out space in note 1
     Page 26: Replace Clause 7 on Timers with reference to FCP-2. (FCP-2 
     will not reference AL_TIME and R_T_TOV)
     Page 30 First two paragraphs will to be turned into a table. Reference 
     to SCC should be SAM-2. 
     Page 32 Table 22 FCP_CONF_REQ
     Page 40 Mode Select Page 02 should be an I
     Page 41 Mode Sense Page 02 should be an I
     Also Page 18 is duplicated in both entries 
     Page 45 Table 27 header format fixed 
     Page Note 4 is not referenced in Table 28
     Page 49 Note 5 upper case errors on "One"
     Table 28 headers - more "Requirement" heading up one line
     Index will be taken out
     Stewart Wyatt, HP, questioned the implementation requirements for 
     FCP_CONF. This was reviewed and the group decided to leave the text as 
     6. FCP-2: T10 Working Drafts T10/99-168r0 Bob Snively
     This agenda item was deferred until Thursday morning (15th). Bob had 
     created a document describing the changes made to FCP-2 revision 1. 
     The minutes from this agenda item reflect this document, T10/99-168r1. 
     Bob intends to update the document (to revision 2) with the comments 
     and decisions made in this meeting and present it to the T10 plenary 
     for approval next month. These minutes will not attempt to reproduce 
     Bob's document. The reader is advised to refer to Bob's document while 
     reading these minutes.
     Bob started with his review with clause 5 "Items not planned for 
     Clause 5.1 Definition of mode page parameters for FCP, DTDC field - No 
     action taken. (This item is the proposal Jim Coomes presented in 
     agenda item 9.1.)
     Clause 5.2 Restrict data overlay to error recovery. Decision: This 
     restriction should only be in the tape profile, not in FCP-2.
     Clause 5.3 Continuously increasing sequence count. Decision: Okay - 
     adequately covered in other documents.
     Clause 5.4 Data checking when doing overlay or out of order transfer. 
     Decision: Bob is adding a warning about the risk of incomplete data 
     transfers when data overlay is allowed.
     Clause 5.5 FCP_RSP IU length. Some early implementations issued "good" 
     responses that were 12 bytes in length by not sending invalid fields. 
     These implementations are noncompliant. Action: Bob will look for a 
     place to make the statement that a response will be a minimum of 24 
     bytes in length. 
     Clause 5.6 Automatic persistent reservation registration update: 
     Decision already installed. 
     Clause 5.7 Reference for ABTS. Decision: Included in FCP-2 Annex for 
     inclusion in a later standard. Action: Needs to be reviewed with 
     respect to FC-PH
     Clause 5.8 FCP_CONF and linked commands. Decision: FCP_CONF and linked 
     commands are mutually exclusive except for the last command or a check 
     condition that ends the link. Action: Bob will check to see that this 
     is explicitly prohibited in the text.
     Clause 5.9 Obsolete Third Party Process Logout. Decision: Cannot be 
     obsoleted. Is documented in FC-FS
     Clause 5.10 Rules for ELS generation before Login. Action: Bob will 
     talk to Bob Kembel and get a list of the specific BLS and ELS which 
     are allowed before login. (Login can be implicit.) List in annex for 
     moving to FC-FS
     Clause 5.11 SRR transfer of initiative. Decision: No change, current 
     approach is right.
     Clause 5.12 Retry Offset. Decision: If the starting point is ambiguous 
     recovery starts at the beginning. Action: Participants requested to 
     review - Bob believes its ok.
     Clause 5.13 Review Enable. Decision: No change (This is the same issue 
     as clause 5.1.)
     Clause 5.14 Correction of DDIS bit. Discussion: Could also include 
     FDISC and FAN in public environment. Bob noted that this violates 
     FC-AL2. Jim Coomes noted that it also violates PLDA, only shows up in 
     a limited environment. Decision: No change Action: Jim Coomes to make 
     a proposal to limit certain of the mode page bits to private loop 
     Clause 5.15 Consideration of additional ELS. A request for documenting 
     ADISC, PDISC, FDISC (and FAN) in the FCP-2. Decision: Documented in 
     other places - referred to in FCP-2. Bob noted that Jeff Stai believes 
     that the public loop discovery process documented in FLA has some 
     problems. Discussed where the verification process should be 
     documented. Decided it should go FC-FS. Action: Dave Peterson to write 
     a proposal carry the protocol for discovery to FC-FS.
     Clause 5.16 CRN recovery. Action: Bob requested participants to 
     Next Bob reviewed clause 3 "Technical changes to be approved."
     Clause 3.1 Timer Definitions RR_TOV, REC_TOV and ULP_TOV. Decision: 
     Clause 3.2 REC_TOV timer implementation. Relaxing the restriction of a 
     REC_TOV timer per exchange. Decision: Change the proposal to Matt 
     Wakeley's suggestion to require waiting at least REC_TOV and removing 
     the requirement of one timer per exchange. 
     Clause 3.3 Negotiation of FCP recovery capabilities. This issue is how 
     to determine that a device supports FC-Tape recovery. Decision: 
     Accepted a proposal made by Dave Baldwin to use the FCP_CONF bit in 
     the PRLI to indicate support for FCP_CONF, REC, and SRR capabilities. 
     The bit will renamed to TBD. Vote: 10 approve, 2 against, 5 abstain.
     Clause 3.4 Obsolete mixed command/data and data/response obsolete. Bob 
     noted that these capabilities are incompatible with tape error 
     recovery. Voted 19 approve, 0 opposed, 0 abstain.
     Clause 3.5 Obsolete First Burst Length parameter definition. Decision: 
     Changed proposal to say: Applies only if outbound (write) operation 
     transfer and write XFER-RDY disabled otherwise the field is ignored. 
     Action: Bob Needs to review proposal for improper references to loop 
     and tenancies. Vote: 11 approve, 0 opposed, 9 abstaining.
     Clause 3.6 Interpretation of FCP_RSP. This proposal clarifies the 
     text. Vote: 14 approve, 0 opposed, 1 abstaining. Discussion: Kurt 
     request that when validity = 0, implies that the content is 
     undetermined as a general rule be explicitly stated. Action: Bob Check 
     to be sure that "ignored" = 0 length.
     Clause 3.7 SRR Reason Code incorrect. Action: Neil Wanamaker to 
     provide corrected values.
     Clause 3.8 SRR to be rewritten. This proposal is to make SRR an FC-4 
     link data frame. This is the first time that an FC-4 link data frame 
     has been defined. Vote: 10 yes. 0 opposed, 4 abstain.
     Clause 3.9 Make class independent recovery optional for FCP-2. Wordage 
     changed to make the recovery process not tape exclusive. Decision: OK.
     Next Bob reviewed Clause 1.0 Technical Changes. Only two items were 
     Clause 1.4 RR_TOV Timer defined in mode page. Decision: Changed 
     defined values for RR_TOV units to 1, 3, 5. 0 is defined to mean that 
     there is no timer specified in this mode page, all other values are 
     reserved. Voted: 13 approve, 0 opposed, 1 abstaining.
     Clause 1.5 Long CDB definition. Discussion about the position on 
     FCP_DL unclosed. Action: Review proposal with respect to the position 
     of FCP-DL.
     7. SSC: T10 Working Drafts Dave Peterson
     The next draft is waiting for TapeAlert text that is to come from a 
     TapeAlert working group meeting held the previous day. Dave expects 
     that he should have this input by next Tuesday and be able to issue a 
     new draft. There was some concern expressed that the SSC not be held 
     up if the information from the TapeAlert group is not received 
     8. T11 New Business Group
     8.1 FC-Tape Possible actions, 2LB or 1PR, Dale LaFollette
     The group discussed the next action to take with the FC-TAPE proposal. 
     The options are to request another letter ballot review from T11 or to 
     forward for public review. The discussion revealed that forwarding for 
     public review essentially publishes the document. Dale called a vote. 
     The results were 3 votes for a second letter ballot and 9 votes for 
     public review. Action: Dale Lafollette to forward FC-TAPE for further 
     processing for public review.
     8.2 Connector Proposal, Stewart Wyatt, Hewlett Packard: Stewart 
     presented an argument to change the pinout in his proposal for a 68 
     pin SCA-2 connector from the existing 40 pin connector defined in 
     SFF-8067. There was no support for the change. Action: Stewart will 
     modify his proposal to match SFF-8067.
     8.3 Private only. Joe Breher, Exabyte. Requested support for private 
     loop only operation - supported by Tak Seto, Quantum, and Jim Coomes, 
     Seagate. Customers have requested this as a means of limiting access 
     to the drive. Dale Lafollette said that he has customers that don't 
     want the tape to be a public device either. Dal Alan, ENDL, thought 
     that a "private only" mode page bit might be needed. Joe's proposal 
     was unanimously defeated. While a venndor can implement a private loop 
     device, this behavior will be non-compliant to this profile.
     9. T10 New Business: Group
     9.1 FCP-2 Jim Coomes, Seagate, Mode page control of FCP IUs in a Loop 
     Tenancy. An unspecified initiator requires that the FCP_RSP be sent in 
     a different loop tenancy than the last FCP_DATA read frame. Need to 
     control whether the FCP_RSP can be sent in the same loop tenancy as 
     the last FCP_DATA frame. Bob Snively suggested changing the proposal 1 
     IU per tenancy. The group voted 2 to 14 against incorporating this in 
     the FCP-2. A suggestion was made to document this in a vendor unique 
     manner and to make that information available for others who need it. 
     Note that this issue is also discussed in the FCP review, agenda item 
     9.2 SSC Carl Zeitler, Compaq. Information field value after space 
     command early termination. Copying from Carl's overhead, A change was 
     noted in SSC from SCSI-2. It relates to the last sentence of the 
     second paragraph (on filemarks) on page 44: "A CHECK CONDITION caused 
     by an early termination of any SPACE command shall not result in a 
     negative information field value." Carl illustrated a case where a 
     negative value can be calculated. Action: He asked the tape vendors to 
     clarify how this is implemented. Carl will post an explanation of the 
     issue to the reflectors.
     10. Review New Action Items: Stewart Wyatt
     General Action Items
     #1. Erich Oetting - Consider specifying the compression algorithm like 
     the supported density is specified.
     #2. Bob Snively - Post concerns about TapeAlert to reflector.
     #3. Dale LaFollette - Ask T11.3 plenary for public review of FC-TAPE.
     #4. Stewart Wyatt - New connector proposal matching 40 pin SFF-8067 
     #5. Carl Zeitler - post question about negative information field 
     values on early termination of SPACE command to reflector
     #6. Tape vendors to reply to Carl's issue.
     FC-TAPE action items
     #1. Dave Peterson, make the changes identified in these minutes under 
     agenda item 5.
     FCP-2 action items.
     #1. Bob Snively will look for a place to make the statement that a 
     response will be a minimum of 24 bytes in length. 
     #2. Bob Snively will review the ABTS changes in the FCP-2 draft with 
     respect to FC-PH.
     #3 Bob Snively will check the text to see that it states that FCP_CONF 
     and linked commands are mutually exclusive except for the last command 
     or a check condition that ends the link. 
     #4 Bob Snively and Bob Kembel and list the specific BLS and ELS which 
     are allowed before login including explicit Login in an annex for 
     later placement in FC-FS.
     #5 Bob Snively requested that the error retry offset text (Clause 5.12 
     in T10/99-168r1) should be reviewed by the participants. 
     #6 Jim Coomes will make a proposal to limit certain of the mode page 
     bits to private loop applications.
     #7 Dave Peterson to write a proposal to carry the protocol for 
     discovery to FC-FS.
     #8 Bob Snively requested participants to review the CRN recovery 
     (T10/99-168r1 Clause 5.16).
     #9 Bob Snively needs to review the proposal for first burst length 
     parameter definition.
     #10 Bob Snively check to be sure that "ignored" = 0 length in FCP_RSP 
     and other relevant places.
     #11 Group review Long CDB definition proposal with respect to the 
     position of FCP-DL.
     11. Adjournment: Group
     Note: The minutes posted to the web site include an attendance list. 
     The list could not be pasted into this text email format. 

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