Draft Minutes of SCSI WG Meeting -- March 17-18, 1998

John Lohmeyer lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
Tue Mar 24 18:05:15 PST 1998


* From the T10 (formerly SCSI) Reflector (t10 at symbios.com), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com>
*
Accredited Standards Committee*
National Committee for Information Technology Standards (NCITS)

                                                      Doc. No.: T10/98-126r0
                                                          Date: March 24, 1998
                                                      Reply to: John Lohmeyer

To:       T10 Membership
From:     Ralph Weber / John Lohmeyer
Subject:  SCSI Working Group Meeting -- March 17-18, 1998
          San Diego, CA

Agenda
1.  Opening Remarks
2.  Approval of Agenda
3.  Attendance and Membership
4.  SPI-2 Topics
4.1   0.5 pF capacitance balance for LVD SCSI (98-131) [Aloisi/Kapraun]
4.2   LVD ESD Concerns [Kapraun]
4.3   Removal of overlapped commands (duplicate queue tags) checking in SPI-2
      (98-123r0) [Williams]
4.4   Terminator Power voltage level (98-134) [Wallace]
4.5   SPI-2 Proposed letter ballot response review (98-108r1) [Penokie]
4.5.1   EIA - 485 versus ISO/IEC 8482 versus SPI-2 [Milligan]
4.5.2   SPI-2 Differential Cable Common Mode Voltage Requirements (98-136r0)
        [Milligan]
5.  Enhance Parallel Interface (EPI) Technical Report
5.1   EPI Review [Ham]
6.  Protocol Topics
6.1   LFP INQUIRY and MODE SENSE data format (97-241r2) [Lamers]
6.2   End to End CRC Proposal (97-283) [Basham]
7.  Command Set Topics
7.1   SCSI Socket/SSL Services (SSS) Review (98-130r0) [Parker]
7.2   QErr Recovery in HAP (97-187) []
7.3   High-Availability Profile (HAP) [Hagerman]
7.4   GET CONFIGURATION command and feature descriptions for SPC-2 (98-xxx)
      [Sims]
7.5   Proposal for Contingent Allegiance / ACA (97-225r2) [Milligan]
7.6   Making the Terminate Task Management Function Obsolete [Milligan]
7.7   FCP-2 [Snively]
7.8   Proposal for Writable Device Identifiers (98-112r0) [Coughlan]
7.9   SAM-2 Issues [Weber]
7.10    Sundry Minor Enhancements for SPC-2 (98-115r2) [Weber]
7.11    ASC/ASCQ for RBC Threshold Exceeded (97-265r1) [Weber]
7.12    Add PLPB feature to mode page 19h (98-106r0) [Houlder]
7.13    Persistent Reservation Questions (reflector messages) [Houlder]
7.14    Persistent Reservations clarifications for SPC-2 (98-124/98-xxx)
        [Snively/Coughlan]
7.15    New Log Page Requirements (98-128r0) [Snively]
8.  Other Business
8.1   Packetized Protocol review (97-230r6) [Penokie/Williams]
9.  Meeting Schedule
10. Adjournment

Results of Meeting
1.  Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer, the T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m., Monday
March 17, 1998.  He thanked Skip Jones and QLogic for arranging and hosting
the meeting.

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.

2.  Approval of Agenda

The following items were added to the draft agenda as carryover items from the
SPI-3 working group meeting:

4.  SPI-2 Topics
4.1   0.5 pF balance capacitance for LVD SCSI (98-131) [Aloisi/Kapraun]
4.2   LVD ESD Concerns [Kapraun]
4.3   Removal of overlapped commands (duplicate queue tags) checking in SPI-2
      [Williams]
4.4   Terminator Power voltage level [Wallace]
4.5   SPI-2 Proposed letter ballot response review (98-108r1) [Penokie]
4.5.1     EIA - 485 versus ISO/IEC 8482 versus SPI-2 [Milligan]
4.5.2     SPI-2 Differential Cable Common Mode Voltage Requirements [Milligan]

The draft agenda was approved with no other additions or changes.

The following agenda items were added during the course of the meeting:

8.1   Packetized Protocol review (97-230r6) [Penokie/Williams]

3.  Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for T10 membership.  Working group meetings are open to any
person or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of
work.  The following people attended the meeting:

         Name          S        Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Lawrence J. Lamers P  Adaptec, Inc.             ljlamers at ix.netcom.com

Mr. Tak Asami          V  Adaptec, Inc.             asami at itc.adaptec.com
Mr. Charles Monia      V  Adaptec, Inc.             cmonia at corp.adaptec.com
Mr. Charles Brill      P  AMP, Inc.                 cebrill at amp.com
Mr. Bill Mable         A  Amphenol Interconnect     bmable at spectra.net
Mr. Douglas Wagner     P  Berg Electronics          wagnerdl at bergelect.com
Mr. Edward Haske       O  CMD Technology            haske at cmd.com
Mr. Robert C. Elliott  O  Compaq Computer Corp.     relliott at compaq.com
Mr. Bill Galloway      O  Compaq Computer Corp.     Bill.Galloway at compaq.com
Mr. Greg McSorley      P  Data General / Clariion   greg_mcsorley at dgc.ceo.dg.
                                                    com
Mr. Douglas Hagerman   P  Digital Equipment Corp.   douglas.hagerman at digital.
                                                    com
Mr. William Dallas     A# Digital Equipment Corp.   dallas at zk3.dec.com
Dr. William Ham        A# Digital Equipment Corp.   bill.ham at digital.com
Mr. Sid Snyder         A# Digital Equipment Corp.   sid.snyder at digital.com
Mr. Tom Coughlan       V  Digital Equipment Corp.   tom.coughlan at digital.com
Mr. Keith W. Parker    P  Diogenes SCSI             diogenes at europa.com
Mr. Mark Hammang       A  FCPA Intellistor          mhammang at intellistor.com
                          (Fujitsu)
Mr. Chris Nieves       P  Fujitsu                   cnieves at fcpa.fujitsu.com
Mr. Simon Fok          V  Gigalabs                  sfok at gigalabs.com
Mr. Marcos Barrionuevo P  Harting, Inc. of N.       Marcos.Barrionuevo@
                          America                   harting.com
Mr. Zane Daggett       P  Hitachi Cable Manchester, zdaggett at hcm.hitachi.com
                          Inc
Mr. Francesco Liburdi  O  Hollingsworth Corp.       liburdif at hollingsworth.
                                                    com
Mr. George Penokie     P  IBM Corp.                 gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. Dennis Moore       P  KnowledgeTek, Inc.        dmoore at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Dean Wallace       P  Linfinity Micro           75671.3443 at compuserve.com
Mr. Robert Bellino     P  Madison Cable Corp.       robert_bellino@
                                                    madisonusa.ccmail.
                                                    compuserve.com
Mr. Brian McKean       P  Mylex Corp.               brianm at mylexboulder.com
Mr. Edward A. Gardner  P  Ophidian Designs          eag at ophidian.com
Mr. Gary Dickinson     V  QLogic Corp.              g_dickinson at qlc.com
Mr. James McGrath      A# Quantum Corp.             JMCGRATH at QNTM.COM
Mr. John A. Fobel      O  Rancho Technology, Inc.   johnf at rancho.com
Mr. Gene Milligan      P  Seagate Technology        Gene_Milligan at notes.
                                                    seagate.com
Mr. Gerald Houlder     A  Seagate Technology        Gerry_Houlder at notes.
                                                    seagate.com
Mr. Erich Oetting      P  Storage Technology Corp.  erich_oetting at stortek.com
Mr. Robert N. Snively  P  Sun Microsystems          bob.snively at sun.com
                          Computer Co
Mr. Vit Novak          A  Sun Microsystems, Inc.    vit.novak at sun.com
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  Symbios, Inc.             lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber     A  Symbios, Inc.             roweber at acm.org
Mr. Steve Stefek       V  Symbios, Inc.             steve.stefek at symbios.com
Mr. Pete Tobias        P  Tandem, a Compaq Company  tobias_pete at tandem.com
Mr. Arlan P. Stone     A  UNISYS Corporation        arlan.stone at unisys.com
Mr. Dave Wehrman       O  UNISYS Corporation        dave.wehrman2 at unisys.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi     P  Unitrode Corporation      aloisi at unitrode.com
Mr. Jeffrey L.         P  Western Digital           Jeffrey.L.Williams at wdc.
Williams                  Corporation               com
Mr. Gregory Kapraun    A  Western Digital           Gregory.D.Kapraun at wdc.com
                          Corporation

45 People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
             A,A# -  Alternate
             O    -  Observer

             L    -  Liaison
             V    -  Visitor

4.  SPI-2 Topics

4.1 0.5 pF capacitance balance for LVD SCSI (98-131) [Aloisi/Kapraun]

Greg Kapraun reviewed the history of concerns about the ability to meet the
0.5 pF capacitance balance requirement found LVD in SPI-2.  Then, he reviewed
a series of capacitance measurements for various host bus adapters, disk
drives, and other LVD products.  He noted instances where the 0.5 pF
capacitance balance requirements were not being met.  Instances where the
requirements have been met also were noted.

Next, Greg described his test setup for measuring the effects of capacitance
imbalance.  He noted that capacitance imbalances of 0.0, 1.0, 2.0, and 3.4 pF
were used.  Greg showed a dozen signal traces, and noted the effects of
capacitance imbalance.  He expressed opinion that 1.0 and 2.0 pF of imbalance
have no or minimal effect on the signals.

In the absence of any objections, the group agreed to recommend to the plenary
that the 0.5 pF |C1-C2| requirement in SPI-2 be increased to 1.5 pF and that
0.5 pF be recommended.  George agreed to include this change in  SPI-2
revision 20.

Larry Lamers requested that the bottom six entries in SPI-2 Table 29 fall
under the 0.5 pF recommendation.  The group then agreed to recommend that
implementations strive for the minimum possible values for properties
characterized in the table.

4.2 LVD ESD Concerns [Kapraun]

Greg Kapraun described problems where system hangs result from an
electrostatic-static discharge to a disk drive in a test configuration (on a
bench grounded by an unshielded cable).  The same drive in single-ended mode
only fails at higher voltages.  He felt that the problem comes from a smaller
number of grounds in the LVD cable.  Greg did not request any changes in
SPI-2; he only wanted people to think about their ESD grounding strategies for
LVD devices.  The group took no formal action on Greg's concerns.

4.3 Removal of overlapped commands (duplicate queue tags) checking in SPI-2
    (98-123r0) [Williams]

Jeff Williams presented two specific changes in SPI-2 that have the effect of
removing any requirements that SCSI devices check for duplicate queue tags.
Concerns were raised that the proposal did not include in recommendations for
what a device should do if it does check for duplicate queue tags and finds
one.  At the request of the group, Jeff agreed to delete the second of his
specific changes, with the effect being that instruction is provided to
devices that do check for and find duplicate queue tags.  Concerns also were
raised regarding the wording of a note that seemed to suggest that devices do
check for duplicate tags.  Jeff agreed to consider changing the note.

In the absence of any objections, the working grouped recommended that the
plenary approve 98-123r1 (r0 as revised) for inclusion in SPI-2.

4.4 Terminator Power voltage level (98-134) [Wallace]

Dean Wallace asked that this item be deferred to the SPI-3 agenda in the May
meeting.

4.5 SPI-2 Proposed letter ballot response review (98-108r1) [Penokie]

George Penokie reviewed the SPI-2 letter ballot responses, many but not all of
which concerned typos.

In response to Seagate comment 32, it was agreed to copy the SBC wording to
SPI-2, SPC-2, SAM-2, and other new standards containing a definition for the
`reserved' keyword.

The specification for parity error handling during Synchronous Data Transfer
Request (SDTR) message transactions was revised to clarify the methods for
handling retry failures so that the initiator is informed when the target
gives up on retry attempts and the SDTR negotiation is declared a failure.
The differences between the handling when the target started the SDTR
negotiation and the initiator starts the SDTR negotiation also were segregated
and clarified.

The group reviewed in detail the requirements intended to prevent bus release
glitches.  Ultimately, everybody agreed that suitable protection is provided
against bus release glitches.


In the absence of any objections, the working group recommended that 98-108r2
be approved as resolving letter ballot comments and that SPI-2 rev 20 be
approved as incorporating the letter ballot comments resolutions and be
forwarded for further processing toward a first public review.

4.5.1 EIA - 485 versus ISO/IEC 8482 versus SPI-2 [Milligan]

Gene Milligan described a letter ballot comment requesting that the SPI-2
normative reference to EIA-485 be changed to a normative reference to ISO/IEC
8482.  George and Gene noted that the letter ballot comment has been accepted
and the reference will be to ISO/IEC 8482.

4.5.2 SPI-2 Differential Cable Common Mode Voltage Requirements (98-136r0)
      [Milligan]

Gene Milligan presented a comparison of EIA-485 and ISO/IEC 8482.  Based on
the information presented, the group agreed that Gene should prepare a list of
specific changes in SPI-2 that will have the effect of removing overlapping
requirements between SPI-2 and ISO/IEC 8482.  The group worked through the
list and made several changes.

5.  Enhance Parallel Interface (EPI) Technical Report

5.1 EPI Review [Ham]

Bill Ham described what he called the final technical addition to EPI,
switching expanders (98-135r0).  The group discussed device addressing issues
and data path switching aspects of the proposed new wording.  Bill announced
that the next revision of EPI will contain this information.

Bill requested time during the May meeting week to conduct an editorial review
of EPI.

6.  Protocol Topics

6.1 LFP INQUIRY and MODE SENSE data format (97-241r2) [Lamers]

Larry Lamers reported that a new revision of the proposal is available, but
further discussion is dependent on the assignment of code values.  Action on
this item was deferred to the May meeting.

6.2 End to End CRC Proposal (97-283) [Basham]

Rob Basham was unable to attend the meeting and action on this topic was
deferred to the May meeting.

7.  Command Set Topics

7.1 SCSI Socket/SSL Services (SSS) Review (98-130r0) [Parker]

Keith Parker reported on plans for the SSS draft.  He noted particularly the
inclusion of Posix standard sockets in the plans.  He described the services
to be supported and a performance mechanism for using DMA transfers to move
large blocks of remote procedure call data.

7.2 QErr Recovery in HAP (97-187) []

Tom Coughlan reported that the issue in this area is a specific QErr code
value that should not be used in multi-initiator environments.

7.3 High-Availability Profile (HAP) [Hagerman]

Doug Hagerman requested that the target forwarding date be changed to November
1998.

7.4 GET CONFIGURATION command and feature descriptions for SPC-2 (98-xxx)
[Sims]

At the request of the MMC-2 working group, this item was deferred to the May
agenda.

7.5 Proposal for Contingent Allegiance / ACA (97-225r2) [Milligan]

Gene Milligan reported 97-225r1 was discussed in detail during the November
meeting.  97-225r2, containing all the changes discussed during the November
meeting, was posted on the web site shortly after the last meeting and is in
the last mailing.  Gene asked that 97-225r2 be accepted for inclusion in SPC-2
and SAM-2.  The group recommended that the plenary accept 97-225r2 for
inclusion in SPC-2 and SAM-2 on a vote of 6:2.

7.6 Making the Terminate Task Management Function Obsolete [Milligan]

George Penokie reported that he had rejected the Sun SPI-2 letter ballot
requesting that the Terminate Task Management Function be made obsolete.
George said that he would entertain a proposal to the same effect for
inclusion in SPI-3.

7.7 FCP-2 [Snively]

Bob Snively reported that no work has been done on FCP-2.  He asked that this
item be included in future agenda.

7.8 Proposal for Writable Device Identifiers (98-112r0) [Coughlan]

Tom Coughlan presented a proposal that helps host software provide names for
devices that are easier for humans to work with than world wide identifiers.
Concerns were raised about having Mode Select cause changes in Inquiry data.

The use of variable length mode pages also produced concerns.  Some agreement
was reached regarding the use of new commands to set and read the device name
described by Tom.  Tom agreed to revise the proposal based on working group
comments and bring the revision to the May working group meeting.

7.9 SAM-2 Issues [Weber]

Ralph Weber reported that SAM-2 revision 4 will be in the next mailing.  He
noted the presence of a "Future Plans" section immediately following the
Revision History and asked the group to review it.  He described concerns
about the object definition mechanism and stated a desire to change the object
definitions to English.  Concerns were raised about changing the contents of
SAM-2 in ways that would force changes in other standards, such as SBC and
SPC.  He agreed that forcing changes in other standards would not be
beneficial.  Ralph thanked the group for their advice and promised to return
with more in May.

7.10  Sundry Minor Enhancements for SPC-2 (98-115r2) [Weber]

Ralph Weber presented five minor issues and proposed corrections for SPC-2.
Concerns were raised about the reporting of errors in reserved fields in the
sense key specific sense data and corrections were made in the proposal.  The
statement of a requirement in the proposed changes to note 53 was discussed
and editorial changes were made.  In the absence of any objections, the
working group recommended approval of 98-115r3 (r2 as revised) for inclusion
in SPC-2.

7.11  ASC/ASCQ for RBC Threshold Exceeded (97-265r1) [Weber]

Issues were raised about the use of vendor-unique ASCQ values (80h - FFh)
under the 5Dh ASCQ.  Ralph Weber agreed to review the limitations with the RBC
group and bring a revised proposal to the group.  The review was completed and
the ASCQ value range was reduced to 10h to 7Fh.  Ralph agreed to revise the
proposal.  In the absence of any objections, the working group recommended
approval of 97-265r2 (r1 as revised) for inclusion in SPC-2.

7.12  Add PLPB feature to mode page 19h (98-106r0) [Houlder]

Gerry Houlder presented a proposal that a Prevent Loop Port Bypass flag be
added to the Fibre Channel mode page.  Concerns were raised about being unable
to store the mode page on the media.  Gerry agreed to prepare a new revision
based on the comments from the working group for consideration at the May
meeting.

7.13  Persistent Reservation Questions (reflector messages) [Houlder]

Gerry Houlder reported that his reflector comments on persistent reservations
have been rolled in to Bob Snively's proposal, 98-124.  The issues will be
discussed under 7.14.

7.14  Persistent Reservations clarifications for SPC-2 (98-124/98-xxx)
      [Snively/Coughlan]

Bob Snively proposed several specific changes needed to clarify the operation
of persistent reservations.  The group commented on the proposed changes.  Bob
agreed to revise the proposal and bring it to the May meeting for further
consideration.

Tom Coughlan described a change in the reporting of duplicate persistent
reservations (98-140r0).  The change prohibits the reporting of duplicate
persistent reservations from the same initiator.  In the absence of any
objections, the group recommended approval of 98-140r0 for inclusion in SPC-2.

7.15  New Log Page Requirements (98-128r0) [Snively]

Bob Snively proposed addition of log pages for device power-on and temperature
information.  The objective of both log pages was providing information that
the host operating system can use to minimize power consumption.  The group
discussed the proposed mechanisms and how best to meet the stated goals.  Bob
agreed to revise the proposal based on working group comments and bring it to
the May meeting for further consideration.

8.  Other Business

8.1 Packetized Protocol review (97-230r6) [Penokie/Williams]

George Penokie reviewed the changes made as a result of the SPI-3 working
group discussion.  George noted that editorial SPI-3 working group comments
will be folded in r6 before it is officially distributed.  George Penokie

moved that the working group recommended that 97-230r6 be approved for
inclusion in SPI-3.  Gerry Houlder seconded the motion.  The motion passed
7:2:2.

9.  Meeting Schedule

The next meeting of SCSI Working Group will be May 5-6, 1998 in Colorado
Springs, CO at the Doubletree World Arena Hotel (719-576-8900), hosted by
Symbios, Inc.  The meeting will begin at 9:00 a.m. on Tuesday.

10. Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 4:50 p.m. on Wednesday March 18, 1998.


--
John Lohmeyer                  Email: lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
Symbios, Inc.                  Voice: +1-719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr.              Fax: +1-719-533-7036
Colo Spgs, CO 80907              BBS: +1-719-533-7950

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