Draft Minutes of SPI-3 Working Group Meeting -- July 14, 1998

John Lohmeyer lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
Wed Jul 15 11:04:45 PDT 1998

* From the T10 (formerly SCSI) Reflector (t10 at symbios.com), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com>
Accredited Standards Committee*
National Committee for Information Technology Standards (NCITS)

                                                      Doc. No.: T10/98-200r0
                                                          Date: July 15, 1998
                                                      Reply to: John Lohmeyer

To:      T10 Membership
From:    Ralph Weber / John Lohmeyer
Subject: SPI-3 Working Group Meeting -- July 14, 1998
         Portland, ME


1. Opening Remarks
2. Approval of Agenda
3. Attendance and Membership
4. SPI-3 Topics
4.1 CRC Proposals
4.2 Domain Validation
4.3 QAS
4.4 Parallel Protocol Request Negotiation (98-180r1) [Penokie]
4.5 Fast-80 Proposals
4.6 SPI-3 Concerns (98-197r0) [Daggett]
4.7 Staged Contact Resistance (98-174) [Herrmann] {September Meeting}
4.8 Load Compensation (97-281) [Novak]
4.9 Universal Backplane Annex (98-101) [Wallace]
4.10 Bias Reduction Proposal (98-156) [Bridgewater]
4.11 Dual Clocking Proposal (97-208) [Bastiani]
4.12 Test results on dual edge signals (98-113r0) [Bastiani]
4.13 InterSymbol Interference (98-199) [Penman]
5. SPI-2 Issues
5.1 Corrections in SPI-2 Revision 20b (98-204) [Penokie]
5.2 Typo in Figure 27 of SPI-2 (Reflector Message)
5.3 Synchronous data transfer description in SPI-2 [Elliott]
6. EPI Issues
7. Meeting Schedule
8. Adjournment

Results of Meeting

1.     Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer, the T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m.,
Tuesday July 14, 1998.  He thanked Doug Hagerman of Compaq for hosting the
meeting (arranged by Charles Monia when he was still with Digital).

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.

2.     Approval of Agenda

The draft agenda was approved with the following additions and changes:

4.13 InterSymbol Interference (98-199) [Penman]

The following agenda items were added during the course of the meeting:

5. SPI-2 Issues
5.1 Corrections in SPI-2 Revision 20b (98-204) [Penokie]
5.2 Typo in Figure 27 of SPI-2 (Reflector Message)
5.3 Synchronous data transfer description in SPI-2 [Elliott]
6. EPI Issues

3.     Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for T10 membership.  Working group meetings are open to any
person or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of
work.  The following people attended the meeting:

         Name          S        Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Lawrence J. Lamers P  Adaptec, Inc.             ljlamers at ieee.org
Mr. Vincent Bastiani   A# Adaptec, Inc.             bastiani at corp.adaptec.com
Mr. Richard Moore      A# Adaptec, Inc.             richard_moore at corp.
Mr. Michael Wingard    P  Amphenol Interconnect     mikwingard at aol.com
Mr. Edward Haske       O  CMD Technology            haske at cmd.com
Mr. Robert C. Elliott  P  Compaq Computer Corp.     Robert.Elliott at compaq.com
Dr. William Ham        A  Compaq Computer Corp.     bill.ham at digital.com
Mr. Charles Tashbook   P  Dallas Semiconductor      charles.tashbook at dalsemi.
Mr. Greg McSorley      P  Data General / Clariion   greg_mcsorley at dg.com
Mr. Roger Cummings     P  Distributed Processing    cummings_roger at dpt.com
Mr. I. Dal Allan       P  ENDL                      endlcom at ibm.net
Mr. Tom Jackson        P  Exabyte Corp.             thomasj at exabyte.com
Mr. Frank Wang         A  Exabyte Corp.             frankw at exabyte.com
Mr. George Penokie     P  IBM Corp.                 gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. Dennis Moore       P  KnowledgeTek, Inc.        dmoore at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Alan Littlewood    P  LSI Logic Corp.           alanl at lsil.com
Mr. Martin Ogbuokiri   V  Molex                     mogbuoki at molex.com
Mr. Jay Neer           A  Molex Inc.                jneer at molex.com

Mr. Brian McKean       P  Mylex Corp.               brianm at mylexboulder.com
Mr. Douglas J. Baloun  V  Mylex Corp.               dbaloun at mylex.com
Mr. Chuck Micalizzi    O  QLogic Corp.              c_micalizzi at qlc.com
Mr. Patrick McGarrah   P  Quantum Corp.             pat.mcgarrah at quantum.com
Mr. Richard Uber       V  Quantum Corp.             duber at tdh.qntm.com
Mr. Duncan Penman      V  Quantum Corp.             duncan.penman at qntm.com
Mr. Gene Milligan      P  Seagate Technology        Gene_Milligan at notes.
Mr. Gerald Houlder     A  Seagate Technology        Gerry_Houlder at notes.
Mr. Daniel (Dan) F.    O  Seagate Technology        daniel_f_smith at notes.
Smith                                               seagate.com
Mr. Mayank R. Patel    V  Seagate Technology        patel at cdg.stsv.seagate.
Mr. Dave Guss          P  Silicon Systems, Inc.     dave.guss at tus.ssi1.com
Mr. Erich Oetting      P  Storage Technology Corp.  erich_oetting at stortek.com
Mr. Vit Novak          A  Sun Microsystems, Inc.    vit.novak at sun.com
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  Symbios, Inc.             lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber     A  Symbios, Inc.             roweber at acm.org
Mr. Andrew Brown       V  Symbios, Inc.             andrew.brown at symbios.com
Mr. David Steele       V  Symbios, Inc.             david.steele at symbios.com
Mr. Ken Plourde        O  Temp Flex Cable, Inc.     kplourde at templex.com
Mr. Kenneth J. Hallam  P  UNISYS Corporation        ken.hallam at unisys.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi     P  Unitrode Corporation      aloisi at unitrode.com
Mr. Jeffrey L.         P  Western Digital           Jeffrey.L.Williams at wdc.
Williams                  Corporation               com

39 People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
             A,A# -  Alternate
             O    -  Observer
             L    -  Liaison
             V    -  Visitor

4.     SPI-3 Topics

At the request of Bill Ham, George Penokie reported that SPI-3 revision 0
contains SPI-2 plus the packetized protocol and is available on the T10 web

4.1    CRC Proposals

Pat McGarrah presented 98-177r3, a proposal to increase transfer rate and
improve error detection.  He noted that the changes in this revision are based
on comments from the June 19 meeting (minutes in 98-190).  The group discussed
several changes in the proposal, and concluded that the document is nearing
completion.  Pat agreed to provide revision 4 of the proposal for the next T10

4.2    Domain Validation

Pat McGarrah noted that his domain validation proposal has not been revised
recently.  He stated that his plans for the disposition of his proposal will
depend on the work done on other domain validation proposals.

Larry Lamers presented 98-189 a description of the ideas found in formal
proposal 98-184.  Larry noted that his proposal should be viewed as in
addition to Pat's proposal, not in opposition to it.  In broad overview,
Larry's proposal uses the READ BUFFER and WRITE BUFFER commands for passing
domain validation data.

After discussing the proposal and the motivations behind it, Larry described a
test setup where he can test methods for validating a domain.  He noted that
128 bytes are not a sufficient amount of data to validate a marginal domain.
A broken domain can be validated with a small number of test bytes, but not a
marginal domain.

4.3    QAS

George Penokie led the group in a discussion of how to validate whether the
proposed usage of 55h would work; that is, be detectable and not be
incorrectly detected.  Richard Moore volunteered to arrange the lab testing
necessary to develop some baseline tests, to show that it can work.  Bill Ham
proposed stress testing as a second step, with the desire that functional
margins be established.

Jeff Williams reminded the group that the fairness issues discussed in past

meetings need to be revisited.  George noted that he has some editorial
issues, which he will address, while preparing a future revision of the

4.4    Parallel Protocol Request Negotiation (98-180r1) [Penokie]

George Penokie led the group in a discussion of the proposal that defines the
transfer request message used to negotiate the transfer parameters associated
with planned SPI-3 capabilities.  Much effort was required to get everyone
accustomed to the double clocking notation and terminology, as contained in
the proposal.  It was noted that the negotiation wording (George's proposal)
and physical definitions wording (Gene Milligan's proposal) need to be
coordinated.  George agreed to perform the coordination as technical editor
for SPI-3.

George stated a belief that DT (double clocking) should be disallowed on an
8-bit (narrow) bus, and asked the group to present counter opinions.  A straw
poll supported George's position 8 to 4.

George agreed to prepare a revised 98-180 for the next meeting based on inputs
|from this meeting.

4.5    Fast-80 Proposals

Gene Milligan presented 98-153r3 and reviewed the open issues listed on the
first page of the proposal.  Several concerns were raised regarding issue 1;
changing a recommendation to a requirement bothered several people.  Gene
accepted several corrections to proposal for revision 3.

Gene presented transmitter and receiver timing diagrams and the group
discussed possible changes to the timing diagrams in SPI-2 with an emphasis on
how the diagrams may need modifications in SPI-3.

Gene agreed to prepare a new revision of 98-153 for the next meeting.

4.6    SPI-3 Concerns (98-197r0) [Daggett]

In the absence of Zane Daggett, John Lohmeyer read the document to the group.
One or more members of the group disagreed with most of the proposed changes.
These items will be deferred until Zane is present to defend his position.
The only agreed changes were removal of nominal values and a maximum
difference value in Table 16.

During a discussion of cable testing, Bill Ham agreed to contact Zane and to
discuss what specific proposal could be written for inclusion in SPI-3.

4.7    Staged Contact Resistance (98-174) [Herrmann] {September Meeting}

John Lohmeyer noted that discussion of this topic has been deferred to the
September meeting.

4.8    Load Compensation (97-281) [Novak]

Vit Novak reviewed the concept of compensating for device capacitance using
inductance on the backplane that he presented in detail two meetings ago.  Vit
asked the group for guidance regarding the usefulness of the concept and where
the information might be presented.  Several people suggested that the
information should be included in an annex to SPI-3.

4.9    Universal Backplane Annex (98-101) [Wallace]

In the absence of Dean Wallace, this item was deferred to the September

4.10   Bias Reduction Proposal (98-156) [Bridgewater]

In the absence of Wally Bridgewater, this item was deferred to the September

4.11   Dual Clocking Proposal (97-208) [Bastiani]

Vince Bastiani requested that this topic be dropped from this and future
agendas since it is included in the Milligan proposal.

4.12   Test results on dual edge signals (98-113r0) [Bastiani]

Vince Bastiani requested that the information concerning this topic be
distributed on the web site and discussed on the T10 Reflector.  John Lohmeyer
requested that Vince prepare a document and email it to him,  John volunteered
to post the document on the ftp/web site.  He asked that only a short notice
of the proposal's availability be distributed on the T10 Reflector.

4.13   InterSymbol Interference (98-199) [Penman]

Duncan Penman presented some ISI studies on a Fast-80 bus.  For the particular
test cases presented, the results were not alarming.  Duncan agreed to pursue
the ideas discussed by the group, with an eye toward the potentially more
troublesome issues, and gather more data.
5.     SPI-2 Issues

5.1    Corrections in SPI-2 Revision 20b (98-204) [Penokie]

George presented a list of changes between SPI-2 revisions 20a and 20b
(98-204r0).  The group agreed that none of the changes listed should be
considered substantive.

5.2    Typo in Figure 27 of SPI-2 (Reflector Message)

Via a T10 Reflector message on May 27th, Bruce McLaren identified an editorial
error in Figure 27.  George reported that the typo has been corrected and is
listed in 98-204r0.

5.3    Synchronous data transfer description in SPI-2 [Elliott]

George Penokie reported that in the synchronous data transfer clause
( the last two paragraphs on page 109 were taken from SCSI-2 not SPI.
George described the differences between the two wordings.  Questions were
raised about the numeric timing results from substituting the timing values
for the name-based time computations given in the SCSI-2 and SPI descriptions.
It was concluded that the SCSI-2 times are between twice and four times as
large as the SPI times, and this was thought to be intentional for SPI.

It was agreed that product designers need to examine all the numbers
carefully, to see if there are any problems.  If he had time, George planned
to study the issue and give a proposed resolution at the SCSI working group
meeting the next day (see T10/98-201).

6.     EPI Issues

In the absence of any opposition, the working group unanimously recommended
that EPI revision 15 (revision 14 as revised by the EPI editing meeting) be
processed toward first public review by T10.

7.     Meeting Schedule

The next meeting of SPI-3 Working Group will be Tuesday, September 15, 1998
|from 9 am to 6 pm in St. Petersburg Beach, FL hosted by AMP, Inc. at the
Tradewinds Hotel (800-808-9833 / 813-367-6461).

8.     Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 5:10 p.m. on Tuesday July 14, 1998.

John Lohmeyer                  Email: lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
Symbios, Inc.                  Voice: +1-719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr.              Fax: +1-719-533-7036
Colo Spgs, CO 80907              BBS: +1-719-533-7950

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