Minutes of SCSI Working Group Meetings - Sep 9-10, 1997

John Lohmeyer John.Lohmeyer at symbios.com
Tue Sep 16 10:02:09 PDT 1997

* From the T10 (formerly SCSI) Reflector (t10 at symbios.com), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <John.Lohmeyer at Symbios.com>
Minutes of SCSI Working Group Meetings                        T10/97-238 R0

Accredited Standards Committee*
National Committee for Information Technology Standards (NCITS)

                                                Doc. No.: T10/97-238 R0
                                                    Date: September 16, 1997
                                               Ref. Doc.:
                                                Reply to: Mr. John Lohmeyer

To:         T10 Membership

From:       Ralph Weber, T10 Secretary
            Larry Lamers, T10 Vice Chair
            John Lohmeyer, T10 Chair

Subject:    Minutes of SCSI Working Group Meetings
            Nashua, NH -- September 9-10, 1997


1. Opening Remarks

2. Approval of Agenda

3. Attendance and Membership

4. SPI-2 Working Group Topics
  4.1 SPI-2 specifications on interconnect (97-235) [Ham]
  4.2 REQ/ACK Glitch Filters (97-215) [Ham]
  4.3 Latching and Counting (97-216) [Guss]
  4.4 Double ACK [Ham]
  4.5 SPI-2 Revision 14 Review [Penokie]

5. EPI {Tuesday Morning}
  5.1 EPI Grounding Clauses [Ham/McSorley]
  5.2 EPI Review
  5.3 SCAM on LUN Bridge secondary bus [Lohmeyer]

6. Joint Meeting with MMC, SBP-2, and SPC-2 groups {Wednesday Morning}
  6.1 New Device Type for Devices Attached to SBP-2
  6.2 Define Other Commands in Device Type Document
  6.3 Help on Isochronous

7. Command Set Topics
  7.1 Addressing Model for SAM-2 (97-122r4) [Penokie]
  7.2 REPORT LUNs Command Requirement (97-219) [Oetting]
  7.3 SAM-2 changes for multi-port devices (97-250) [Monia]
  7.4 Persistent Reservations (97-218r2) [Snively]
  7.5 Persistent Reservation with Non-Unique Keys (97-246) [Coughlan]
  7.6 STS Review [Johansson]
  7.7 SCSI Socket/SSL Services (SSS) Review (97-201r0) [Parker]
  7.8 QErr Recovery in HAP (97-187) [Monia]
  7.9 High-Availability Profile (HAP) [Hagerman]
  7.10 Proposal for Contingent Allegience / ACA (97-225r0) [Milligan]
       {Tuesday Morning}
  7.11 LUN_Z Capabilities Bit in SPC-2 (97-234r0) [Weber]

8. Enclosure Profile Study Group {Wednesday Late Afternoon}

9. SPI-2 Review Revision 14 [Penokie]

10. Meeting Schedule

11. Adjournment

                              Results of Meeting

1.    Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer, the T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m.,
Tuesday September 9, 1997.  He thanked Paul Aloisi of Unitrode for hosting the

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.  Copies of the draft agenda and general
information on T10 were made available to those attending.

2.    Approval of Agenda

The draft agenda was approved with the following changes:

      4. SPI-2 Working Group Topics
      4.1 SPI-2 specifications on interconnect (97-235) [Ham]
      4.2 REQ/ACK Glitch Filters (97-215) [Ham]
      4.3 Latching and Counting (97-216) [Guss]
      4.4 Double ACK [Ham]
      4.5 SPI-2 Revision 14 Review [Penokie]
      5.3 SCAM on LUN Bridge secondary bus [Lohmeyer]
      6.1 New Device Type for Devices Attached to SBP-2
      6.2 Define Other Commands in Device Type Document
      6.3 Help on Isochronous
      7. Command Set Topics {new topic heading for 5.1 through 5.10}
      7.11 LUN_Z Capabilities Bit in SPC-2 (97-234r0) [Weber]

3.    Attendance and Membership

John reminded the group that attendance at working group meetings does not
count toward minimum attendance requirements for T10 membership.  He noted
that working group meetings are open to any person or organization directly
and materially affected by T10's scope of work.

The following people attended the meeting:

         Name          S        Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Lawrence J. Lamers P  Adaptec, Inc.             ljlamers at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Vincent Bastiani   A# Adaptec, Inc.             bastiani at corp.adaptec.com
Mr. Tak Asami          V  Adaptec, Inc.             asami at itc.adaptec.com
Mr. Jack Hollins       V  Adaptec, Inc.             jack_hollins at eng.adaptec.
Mr. Bob Atkinson       O  AMP, Inc.                 rdatkins at amp.com
Mr. Ron Roberts        A  Apple Computer            rkroberts at aol.com
Mr. Edward Haske       P  CMD Technology            haske at cmd.com
Mr. Bill Galloway      O  Compaq Computer Corp.     Bill.Galloway at compaq.com
Mr. Jeff Wolford       V  Compaq Computer Corp.     jeff.wolford at compaq.com
Mr. Peter Johansson    P  Congruent Software, Inc.  pjohansson at aol.com
Mr. Greg McSorley      P  Data General / Clariion   greg_mcsorley at dgc.ceo.dg.
Mr. Charles Monia      P  Digital Equipment Corp.   charles.monia at shr.mts.dec
Dr. William Ham        A# Digital Equipment Corp.   ham at subsys.enet.dec.com
Mr. William Dallas     A# Digital Equipment Corp.   dallas at wasted.enet.dec.com
Mr. Tom Coughlan       V  Digital Equipment Corp.   tom.coughlan at zko.mts.dec.
Mr. Robert Reisch      P  Eastman Kodak Co.         reisch at kodak.com
Mr. Mark Hammang       A  FCPA Intellistor          mhammang at intellistor.com
Mr. Don Vohar          A  Fujitsu (FCPA)            dvohar at fcpa.fujitsu.com
Ms. Martina Kuhlmeyer  P  Harting Elektronik Inc.   martinaku at aol.com
Mr. Philip Facendola   O  Helix/Hitemp Cables, Inc.
Mr. J. R. Sims         P  Hewlett Packard Co.       robsims at hootie.lvld.hp.com
Mr. George Penokie     P  IBM Corp.                 gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. Darrell Redford    A  Iomega Corp.              redfordd at iomega.com
Mr. Alan Littlewood    P  LSI Logic Corp.           alanl at lsil.com
Mr. Pete McLean        P  Maxtor Corp.              pete_mclean at maxtor.com
Mr. John Fuller        V  Microsoft Corporation     jfuller at microsoft.com
Mr. Jay Neer           A  Molex Inc.                jneer at molex.com
Mr. Edward A. Gardner  P  Ophidian Designs          eag at ophidian.com
Mr. Randall C. Hines   A  Philips Electronics       hinesr at worldnet.att.net
Mr. William P.         P  Philips Key Modules       BMcFerrin at aol.com
Mr. Skip Jones         P  QLogic Corp.              sk_jones at qlc.com
Mr. Mark Evans         A  Quantum Corp.             mevans at qntm.com
Mr. Patrick McGarrah   V  Quantum Corp.             pmcgarra at tdh.qntm.com
Mr. Richard Uber       V  Quantum Corp.             duber at tdh.qntm.com
Bruce Leshay           V  Quantum Corp.             bleshay at tdh.qntm.com
Mr. Gene Milligan      P  Seagate Technology        Gene_Milligan at notes.
Mr. Gerald Houlder     A  Seagate Technology        Gerry_Houlder at notes.
Mr. Michael Bryan      O  Seagate Technology        mike.bryan at notes.seagate.
Mr. Daniel (Dan) F.    O  Seagate Technology        daniel_f_smith at notes.
Smith                                               seagate.com
Mr. Janek Rebalski     A  Sony Electronics, Inc.    janek_rebalski at asd.sel.
Mr. Erich Oetting      P  Storage Technology Corp.  erich_oetting at stortek.com
Mr. David Peterson     O  StorageTek Network Sys.   dap at network.com
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  Symbios Logic Inc.        john.lohmeyer at symbios.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber     A  Symbios Logic Inc.        roweber at acm.org
Mr. Graeme             V  Symbios Logic Inc.        gwl at symbios.com
Mr. Bryce Leach        V  Texas Instruments         b-leach at ti.com
Mr. Kenneth J. Hallam  P  UNISYS Corporation        ken.hallam at unisys.com
Mr. Arlan P. Stone     A  UNISYS Corporation        arlan.stone at unisys.com
Mr. Dave Wehrman       O  UNISYS Corporation        dwehrman at unisys.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi     P  Unitrode Corporation      aloisi at unitrode.com
Mr. Gregory Kapraun    V  Western Digital Corp.     Gregory.D.Kapraun at wdc.com
Mr. Jeffrey L.         P  Western Digital           Jeffrey.L.Williams at wdc.com
Mr. Devon Worrell      A  Western Digital           worrell at dt.wdc.com
Mr. Jonathan L.        A# Western Digital           jhanmann at dt.wdc.com
Hanmann                   Corporation
Mr. Arnold Limjoco     O  Yamaichi Electronics      arnold.l at yeu.com

55  People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
             A,A# -  Alternate
             O    -  Observer
             L    -  Liaison
             V    -  Visitor

4.    SPI-2 Working Group Topics

4.1   SPI-2 specifications on interconnect (97-235) [Ham]

Bill Ham agreed to draft a proposal for changes in the interconnect clause of
SPI-2 for discussion at the November meeting.

4.2   REQ/ACK Glitch Filters (97-215) [Ham]

The group reviewed the wording proposed by Tak Asami and appended to 97-215r0
in 97-215r1.  The group agreed to several corrections.  George Penokie agreed
to insert the corrected text in the next revision of SPI-2.

4.3   Latching and Counting (97-216) [Guss]

The group discussed the status of the Dave Guss and Bill Ham proposal on
counting and latching.  Concerns were raised that the proposal, as written, is
not ready for insertion in a committee standard.  Publishing the document as a
STA white paper was discussed.

Dan Smith questioned the initiator requirements described in 97-216 and asked
how the new capabilities proposed in the document can be tested without
host/target cooperation.  Bill Ham said that the proposal should not contain
new requirements.

Dave Guss agreed to pair down the text in the proposal, issue a new document
for review, and come to the November meeting prepared to discuss the revised

4.4   Double ACK [Ham]

Bill agreed that this topic should be folded in the previous (latching and
counting) topic.  The group agreed to drop this item from future agendas.

4.5   SPI-2 Revision 14 Review [Penokie]

The group discussed George's request for an editing meeting for SPI-2 and
tentatively agreed to 9 am on 14 October in Colorado Springs.

5.    EPI {Tuesday Morning}

5.1   EPI Grounding Clauses [Ham/McSorley]

Bill Ham stated that the grounding clauses were completely reviewed at the
last meeting and this topic should have been deleted from the agenda.

5.2   EPI Review

Bill Ham led the group through the EPI table of contents and then focused on
LUN bridges, as the topic for this meeting.  The group discussed a list of
about twenty requirements that Bill proposed placing on LUN bridges.  It was
noted that, to some extent, a LUN bridge could be viewed as a degenerate case
of a Storage Array (SCC-2) type device.

Bill agreed to provide a revised EPI (revision 11), including the results of
this meeting, for the next committee mailing.

5.3   SCAM on LUN Bridge secondary bus [Lohmeyer]

This topic was also included as a sub-topic on Bill Ham's list of requirements
for LUN bridges.  The key point was that if SCAM protocol is used on a
secondary bus of a LUN bridge, then the logical units presented on the primary
bus might change following SCAM protocol.  It was agreed that in such a case,
a UNIT ATTENTION condition should be generated.  Several possible ASC/ASCQ
codes considered, without complete closure.  Candidates were:


6.    Joint Meeting with MMC, SBP-2, and SPC-2 groups {Wednesday Morning}

6.1   New Device Type for Devices Attached to SBP-2

Pete McLean presented a unanimous SBP Working Group proposal that a new device
type be assigned to devices conforming to SBP-2.  The SCSI Working Group
expressed favorable disposition to the new device type, except that the type
should be named in some manner other than an association with a protocol.
Pete agreed to use a name that is not protocol specific.  The group attempted
to choose a name, but could not reach consensus.

6.2   Define Other Commands in Device Type Document

Peter Johansson described several areas of SPC command definition that SBP-2
participants see as needing changes.  The first such topic was the changeable
values mode page.  After a lengthy discussion, the group agreed that all of
the types of mode page (current, changeable, saved, and default) are optional.
This answered the second of Peter's questions about mode pages, which was,
"can the current and saved values be the same?"

Peter then turned to questions of which SPC mandatory commands can be changed
to optional.  The group quickly agreed that the Send Diagnostics command be
made optional.  Making the Request Sense command optional was agreed to, but
with some reservations about the exact wording by which the change is to be
made.  Specifically, the concern was that, in the absence of autosense or some
equivalent feature, the Request Sense command is really mandatory.  The most
contentious issue was making the Inquiry command optional.  Representatives of
the SBC Working Group agreed to reconsider the position that Inquiry should be
made optional.

Pete McLean and George Penokie discussed defining operation codes with
different meanings in the command set document being proposed by the SBP
Working Group.  It was agreed that, as much as possible, identical operation
codes should have compatible CDB formats.

6.3   Help on Isochronous

Pete McLean stated that the SBP-2 Working Group believes that work on
isochronous support is nearing completion.  He asked anyone interested in
isochronous support to contact him or other members of the SBP-2 working
group.  Pete is looking for people to review and comment on the draft
isochronous definitions.  He noted that, in the absence of any review and
comment, the SBP-2 definition of isochronous would ship pretty much as is.

7.    Command Set Topics

7.1   Addressing Model for SAM-2 (97-122r4) [Penokie]

George Penokie presented a revised proposal for including key elements of the
SCC hierarchical addressing in SAM-2.  Very few questions were asked, no
issues were presented, and no edits were made to the proposal.  The working
group recommended 14:1 that 97-122r4 be approved for inclusion in SAM-2 and

7.2   REPORT LUNs Command Requirement (97-219) [Oetting]

Erich Oetting presented a proposal that the Report LUNs command be made
mandatory for any device that support more than one LUN.  The group agreed
that support for the Report LUNs command should be encouraged but not

7.3   SAM-2 changes for multi-port devices (97-250) [Monia]

Charles Monia reviewed the history of proposals passed by the committee
regarding multi-port devices.  He noted several of the proposals are very old.
At the end of his presentation, Charles asked several questions about future
direction.  The group supported switching from two ports to any number of
ports.  The group agreed that most properties previously agreed as specific to
a port should be associated with initiators (as viewed from the target).  The
group agreed that specialized port management and status commands should not
be defined.  The group agreed that persistent reservations are the preferred
reservations mechanism for multiple port configurations, and apply to the
entire LUN regardless of task set definition.

Charles agreed to prepare a formal proposal based on the discussion of the
working group.

7.4   Persistent Reservations (97-218r2) [Snively]

Bob Snively presented a proposal for corrective changes in the persistent
reservations (97-218r2).  After a brief discussion, the working group
unanimously recommended that the plenary approve 97-218r2 for inclusion in
SPC-2.  Tom Coughlan offered several editorial comments to the SPC-2 technical

Bob Snively presented a proposal for adding a new persistent reservation type,
'exclusive access, registrants only' (97-242r0).  Some questions were raised
regarding the exact text for the proposed reservation type.  But, Bob noted
that most of the issues are covered by text already in the standard or in the
just approved changes (97-218r2).  While the group generally liked the
proposal, action was deferred to the November meeting.

7.5   Persistent Reservation with Non-Unique Keys (97-246) [Coughlan]

Tom Coughlan presented a proposal based on his May discussion of non-unique
keys in persistent reservations.  Bob Snively and others questioned details of
the proposal.  The working group unanimously recommended that the plenary
approve 97-246r1 (97-246r0 as revised by the group) for inclusion in SPC-2.

7.6   STS Review [Johansson]

Peter Johansson reported that STS is now an annex of SBP-2.  He requested that
the working group members review to the annex.  Peter reported that the SBP
Working Group will be asking the T10 plenary to revise the 1240-D project
proposal (currently STS) to make it SBP-2 Attachment (the definition of the
device type discussed in agenda item 6.1 above).

7.7   SCSI Socket/SSL Services (SSS) Review (97-201r0) [Parker]

In the absence of Keith Parker, action on this topic was deferred to the next

7.8   QErr Recovery in HAP (97-187) [Monia]

Charles Monia requested that discussion of this topic be deferred to the
November meeting.

7.9   High-Availability Profile (HAP) [Hagerman]

Doug Hagerman reviewed revision 5 of the High-Availability Profile, received a
few comments, and promised a revised draft in time for consideration at the
November meeting.

7.10  Proposal for Contingent Allegiance / ACA (97-225r0) [Milligan] {Tuesday

This topic was covered during the Protocol Study Group meeting (see minutes in
97-239).  This topic will be on the SCSI Working Group agenda in the November

7.11  LUN_Z Capabilities Bit in SPC-2 (97-234r0) [Weber]

Ralph Weber presented a request for an additional Inquiry data bit whose
purpose is to indicate that a storage array configuration LUN is embedded in a
disk or tape type device.  Bill Dallas and Larry Lamers raised concerns that
the proposed bit and other similar bits are muddying the device model.
However, most of the group agreed that the proposal is valuable.  Gerry
Houlder asked that the bit be renamed to SCCS.  On a vote of 10:1, the group
recommended that the plenary approve 97-234r1 (r0 with the SCCS revision) for
inclusion in SPC-2.

8.    Enclosure Profile Study Group {Wednesday Late Afternoon}

Ralph Weber presented a draft outline for the proposed Enclosure Profile
document (97-252r0).  The group discussed the outline and suggested several
improvements.  Ralph agreed to provide a project proposal, revised outline,
and perhaps a skeleton document for the next meeting.

9.    SPI-2 Review Revision 14 [Penokie]

George Penokie led a review of SPI-2 revision 14 and accepted several comments
and corrections from Bill Galloway.  George agreed to provide a revised SPI-2
for the next committee mailing.

10.   Meeting Schedule

The next meeting of SCSI Working Group will be November 4-5, 1997, in Palm
Springs, CA at the Hyatt Regency Suites Hotel (619-322-9000), hosted by

11.   Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 6:20 p.m. on Wednesday September 10, 1997.

John Lohmeyer                 E-Mail: john.lohmeyer at symbios.com
Symbios Logic Inc.             Voice: 719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr.              Fax: 719-533-7036
Colo Spgs, CO 80907-3444    SCSI BBS: 719-533-7950 300--28800 baud

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