Minutes of Fast-xx SG and SPI-2 WG - 9/8/97

John Lohmeyer John.Lohmeyer at symbios.com
Mon Sep 15 15:56:00 PDT 1997


* From the T10 (formerly SCSI) Reflector (t10 at symbios.com), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <John.Lohmeyer at Symbios.com>
*
Minutes of Fast-xx Study Group and SPI-2 Working Group         T10/97-237r0

Accredited Standards Committee*
National Committee for Information Technology Standards (NCITS)

                                               Doc. No.: T10/97-237r0
                                                   Date: September 12, 1997
                                                Project: 1142-D
                                              Ref. Doc.:
                                               Reply to: John Lohmeyer

To:         Membership of T10

From:       Ralph Weber, Secretary T10
            Larry Lamers, Vice-chair T10
            John Lohmeyer, Chair T10

Subject:    Minutes of Fast-xx Study Group and SPI-2 Working Group
            September 8, 1997 -- Nashua, NH


                                  Agenda

1. Opening Remarks

2. Approval of Agenda

3. Attendance and Membership

4. Fast-xx Study Group {Monday Morning}
   4.1 Low-Attenuation Cables (97-213, 97-228) [Rogers, Bellino]
   4.2 Cable Attenuation & Margin Budget Analysis at 80 MHz (97-207) [Gintz]
   4.3 Bias Reduction Proposal (97-214) [Bridgewater]
   4.4 Dual Clocking Proposal (97-208) [Bastiani]

5. SPI-2 Working Group {Monday Afternoon}
   5.1 SPI-2 specifications on interconnect (97-235) [Ham]
   5.2 SPI-2 Issues For the September working Group and Plenary Vote
      5.2.1 0.5 pF balance capacitance for LVD SCSI (Table 29 SPI-2R13) 
            (97-236) [Aloisi]
      5.2.2 Terminator current differences between SCSI-2 and SPI/Fast-20 
            (97-236r1) [Aloisi]
   5.3 Single-ended termination (96-245r2 and 97-174r0) [Wallace]
   5.4 Capacitance Measurement at 2 Volts [Wallace] {November Meeting}
   5.5 Universal Backplane Annex (97-121r0) [Wallace] {November Meeting}
   5.6 REQ/ACK Glitch Filters [Ham]
   5.7 Latching and Counting (97-182) [Ham]
   5.8 Double ACK [Ham]
   5.9 SPI-2 Revision 14 Review [Penokie]

6. Meeting Schedule

7. Adjournment




                              Results of Meeting

1.    Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer, the T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m., 
Monday September 8, 1997.  He thanked Paul Aloisi and Unitrode for hosting 
the meeting.

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.

2.    Approval of Agenda

The agenda was approved without additions and changes.

3.    Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for T10 membership.  Working group meetings are open to any
person or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of
work.  The following people attended the meeting:

         Name          S        Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Jim Pilny          V  3M                        jcpilny at mmm.com
Mr. Lawrence J. Lamers P  Adaptec, Inc.             ljlamers at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Vincent Bastiani   A# Adaptec, Inc.             bastiani at corp.adaptec.com
Mr. Tak Asami          V  Adaptec, Inc.             asami at itc.adaptec.com
Mr. Tom Schneider      V  Adaptec, Inc.             schneid at itc.adaptec.com
Mr. Michael Wingard    P  Amphenol Interconnect     mikwingard at aol.com
Mr. Ron Roberts        A  Apple Computer            rkroberts at aol.com
Mr. Richard Wagner     P  Cable Design Technologies rwagner at montrose-cdt.com
Mr. Edward Haske       P  CMD Technology            haske at cmd.com
Mr. Bill Galloway      O  Compaq Computer Corp.     Bill.Galloway at compaq.com
Mr. Michael Smith      A  Dallas Semiconductor      mike.smith at dalsemi.com
Mr. Greg McSorley      P  Data General / Clariion   greg_mcsorley at dgc.ceo.dg.
                                                    com
Mr. Joe Salamone       V  FCI                       jsconnect at adi.com
Mr. Don Vohar          A  Fujitsu (FCPA)            dvohar at fcpa.fujitsu.com
Mr. Philip Facendola   O  Helix/Hitemp Cables, Inc.
Mr. Zane Daggett       P  Hitachi Cable             zdaggett at hcm.hitachi.com
                          Manchester,Inc
Mr. Kirk Rogers        A  Hitachi Cable             krogers at hcm.hitachi.com
                          Manchester,Inc
Mr. Anthony Yang       P  Hitachi Storage Products  yang_a at halsp.hitachi.com
Mr. George Penokie     P  IBM Corp.                 gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. Alan Littlewood    P  LSI Logic Corp.           alanl at lsil.com
Mr. Robert Bellino     P  Madison Cable Corp.       robert_bellino at madisonusa
                                                    .ccmail.compuserve.com
Mr. Skip Jones         P  QLogic Corp.              sk_jones at qlc.com
Mr. Richard Uber       V  Quantum Corp.             duber at tdh.qntm.com
Bruce Leshay           V  Quantum Corp.             bleshay at tdh.qntm.com
Mr. Gene Milligan      P  Seagate Technology        Gene_Milligan at notes.
                                                    seagate.com
Mr. Gerald Houlder     A  Seagate Technology        Gerry_Houlder at notes.
                                                    seagate.com
Mr. Daniel (Dan) F.    O  Seagate Technology        daniel_f_smith at notes.
Smith                                               seagate.com
Mr. Dave Guss          P  Silicon Systems, Inc.     dave.guss at tus.ssi1.com
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  Symbios Logic Inc.        john.lohmeyer at symbios.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber     A  Symbios Logic Inc.        roweber at acm.org
Mr. Graeme             V  Symbios Logic Inc.        gwl at symbios.com
Weston-Lewis
Mr. Peter Baril        V  Temp-Flex Cable, Inc.
Mr. Rick Hardy         O  The JPM Company           rhardy at jpmsj.com
Mr. Kenneth J. Hallam  P  UNISYS Corporation        ken.hallam at unisys.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi     P  Unitrode Corporation      aloisi at unitrode.com
Mr. Gregory Kapraun    V  Western Digital Corp.     Gregory.D.Kapraun at wdc.com

36 People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
             A,A# -  Alternate
             O    -  Observer
             L    -  Liaison
             V    -  Visitor

4.    Fast-xx Study Group {Monday Morning}

4.1   Low-Attenuation Cables (97-213, 97-228) [Rogers, Bellino]

The group discussed general willingness to accept the conditions of low-
attenuation cables, and the relationship of dual-edge clocking to low-
attenuation cables.  Much of the discussion was a review of ideas proposed at
the last meeting.  The group seemed to be leaning toward the use of dual-edge
clocking and Fast-80 (over Fast-100).

Zane Daggett said that Hitachi Cable is planning to bring additional low-
attenuation cable data to the November meeting.  John Lohmeyer noted that 97-
228 on Lower Attenuation Cables had been received from Madison Cable after the
last study group meeting and was in the last mailing.

4.2   Cable Attenuation & Margin Budget Analysis at 80 MHz (97-207) [Gintz]

Vince Bastiani requested that discussion of this topic be deferred to the
November meeting.

4.3   Bias Reduction Proposal (97-214) [Bridgewater]

Vince Bastiani requested that discussion of this topic be deferred to the
November meeting.

4.4   Dual Clocking Proposal (97-208) [Bastiani]

Vince Bastiani requested that discussion of this topic be deferred to the
November meeting.

5.    SPI-2 Working Group {Monday Afternoon}

5.1   SPI-2 specifications on interconnect (97-235) [Ham]

Because Bill Ham was called away for an emergency, discussion of this topic
was deferred to the SCSI Working Group meeting.  See minutes in 97-238.

5.2   SPI-2 Issues For the September working Group and Plenary Vote

5.2.1 0.5 pF balance capacitance for LVD SCSI (Table 29 SPI-2R13) (97-236)
[Aloisi]

Paul Aloisi presented a proposal (97-236r1) that the requirement on
capacitance difference between differential signal lines be increased from 0.5
pF to 2.0 pF or (possibly 1.0 pF).  Greg Kapraun presented data (97-243r0)
where 0.5 pF, 3.0 pF, and 10.0 pF capacitances were added to one side of a
signal in one drive of fourteen in a complex configuration.  Greg's data
showed little difference in the 0.5 pF and 3.0 pF cases.  Greg planned to
collect more data including the effects of distributing the capacitance over
several drives.

It was agreed that no changes should be made to SPI-2 until more data are
available.

5.2.2 Terminator current differences between SCSI-2 and SPI/Fast-20 (97-236r1)
[Aloisi]

Paul Aloisi proposed a specific wording change in item b in clause 7.1.1.
George Penokie asked that the group recommend the proposed wording change to
the plenary.  In the absence of any objections, the group recommended that the
plenary approve the change.

5.3   Single-ended termination (96-245r2 and 97-174r0) [Wallace]

This issue is essentially the same as in 5.2.2.  If Paul's proposal is
accepted by the plenary, this item may be moot.  In the absence of Dean
Wallace, the group agreed to carry this item over to the November meeting.

5.4   Capacitance Measurement at 2 Volts [Wallace] {November Meeting}

Dean was unable to attend.  By email, he asked John to defer this topic to the
November meeting.

5.5   Universal Backplane Annex (97-121r0) [Wallace] {November Meeting}

Dean was unable to attend.  By email, he asked John to defer this topic to the
November meeting.

5.6   REQ/ACK Glitch Filters [Ham]

Because Bill Ham was called away for an emergency, discussion of this topic
was deferred to the SCSI Working Group meeting.  See minutes in 97-238.

5.7   Latching and Counting (97-182) [Ham]

Because Bill Ham was called away for an emergency, discussion of this topic
was deferred to the SCSI Working Group meeting.  See minutes in 97-238.

5.8   Double ACK [Ham]

Because Bill Ham was called away for an emergency, discussion of this topic
was deferred to the SCSI Working Group meeting.  See minutes in 97-238.

5.9   SPI-2 Revision 14 Review [Penokie]

Gene Milligan asked that references to EIA standards be replaced with IEC
references.  Bill Ham volunteered to locate the applicable IEC references, if
they exist.  A problem was discovered where multi-wipe connectors requirements
are described.  Contrary to obvious committee choices (i.e., several long-
supported connectors are single wipe), revision 14 appears to require that all
connectors be multi-wipe.  George agreed to fix the offending wording.

Gene Milligan noted that the definition of 'current task' failed to account
for the message phases.  It was noted that the definition of 'current task'
comes from SAM. Larry Lamers noted that SPI-2 is obliged to expand the
definition of 'current task' to fit the parallel bus.  George agreed that such
a change was needed and appropriate.

Bill Ham volunteered find an IEC reference for EIA 364-23A (low-level contact
resistance test procedure for
electronic connectors).

The group spent a substantial amount of time trying to handle various mixed-
mode support cases in Table 14.  Among the issues were concerns over the
recommended wire gauge values.  Bill Ham cited several specific cases where
the recommendations were too permissive.  Bill agreed to bring a proposal for
wording that avoids mention of wire gauges to the next meeting.

Bill Ham asked that clause 6 have the title changed from "SCSI bus cables" to
"SCSI interconnects".  His point was that backplane interconnects and other
options are possible, not just cables.  The group agreed that a change is
necessary and made several changes to the first page of the clause to effect
the change.

Bill Ham, Gene Milligan, Paul Aloisi, and George Penokie agreed that improved
attenuation data should be added to SPI-2.

The group discussed the cases around mixing HVD and other signaling modes with
concerns around the conditions that might fry receivers.  Eventually, it was
concluded that the cases might not be as numerous as originally thought.
George agreed to add a couple of informative and cautionary notes.

The group discussed many other aspects of SPI-2 and George took many notes
regarding corrections and agreed to provide a new revision of SPI-2 in the
near future.  George requested that an editing meeting be scheduled for SPI-2,
sometime between now and November.  The group agreed to discuss the editing
schedule at the SCSI Working Group meeting and the Plenary.

6.    Meeting Schedule

The next meeting of Fast-xx Study Group and SPI-2 Working Group will be
November 3, 1997, in Palm Springs, CA at the Hyatt Regency Suites Hotel (619-
322-9000), hosted by Adaptec.

7.    Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 6:15 p.m. on Monday September, 1997.


--
John Lohmeyer                 E-Mail: john.lohmeyer at symbios.com
Symbios Logic Inc.             Voice: 719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr.              Fax: 719-533-7036
Colo Spgs, CO 80907-3444    SCSI BBS: 719-533-7950 300--28800 baud

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