Minutes of X3T10 SCSI Working Group Meeting -- 7/16-17/96
Lohmeyer, John
JLOHMEYE at cossymwest.co.symbios.com
Tue Jul 23 10:59:00 PDT 1996
* From the SCSI Reflector, posted by:
* "Lohmeyer, John" <JLOHMEYE at COSSYMWEST.CO.SYMBIOS.COM>
*
Minutes of SCSI Working Group meeting in Colorado Springs, CO
X3T10/96-202r0
Accredited Standards Committee*
X3, Information Technology
Doc. No.: X3T10/96-202r0
Date: July 23, 1996
Project:
Ref. Doc.:
Reply to: John Lohmeyer
To: Membership of X3T10
From: Ralph Weber, Secretary X3T10
Larry Lamers, Vice-chair X3T10
John Lohmeyer, Chair X3T10
Subject: Minutes of X3T10 SCSI Working Group Meeting
Colorado Springs, CO -- July 16-17, 1996
Agenda
1. Opening Remarks
2. Approval of Agenda
3. Attendance and Membership
4. Physical Topics
4.1 Review of SPI Amendment (SPI Amnd) [Lamers/Johansson]
4.2 Arbitration Fairness (96-172) [Lohmeyer]
4.3 Document Strategy
5. Protocol Topics
5.1 Problem with Non-interlocked Busses (96-173r0) [Monia]
5.2 New Task Management Models for SAM (96-198r0) [Johansson]
5.3 SAM-2 Changes & Layered Architecture (96-191r0) [Monia]
5.4 Tape Support on FC-AL (Reflector Messages) [Hagerman]
5.5 SBP-2 Rev 1 Review [Johansson]
6. Command Set Topics
6.1 Resolution of the SCSI-3 Primary Commands (SPC) Forwarding
Comments [Weber]
6.1.1 Test Unit Ready and Deferred Error Reporting (96-182)
[Stephens]
6.1.2 Add Mode Page for fibre channel features (96-195) [Houlder]
6.1.3 Request for Firmware Boot/Restart ASC/ASCQ (96-192r0)
[Monia]
6.2 Review of SCSI-3 Enclosure Services (SES) [Snively]
6.3 Clarification of sleep mode (96-140) [Penokie]
6.4 SCSI-3 Block Commands (SBC) Review [Milligan]
6.4.1 Should READ(6), RESERVE(6), and RELEASE(6) be mandatory?
(96-183) [Stephens]
6.4.2 Security Initialization Proposal for SBC (96-186)
[Weber/Lohmeyer]
6.4.3 Additional XOR bit (96-194) [Houlder]
6.5 SIP Public Review Comments [Penokie]
7. Other Topics
7.1 Greater than 8GB Technical Report Review [Lamers/Penman]
7.2 High Availability SCSI Profile (96-151r1) [Hagerman]
7.3 SCSI-2 Questions (96-212) [Monia]
8. Meeting Schedule
9. Adjournment
Results of Meeting
1. Opening Remarks
John Lohmeyer, the X3T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 9:00
a.m., Tuesday July 16, 1996. He thanked Symbios Logic for hosting the
meeting.
As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy
of the attendance list was circulated. Copies of the draft agenda and
general information on X3T10 were made available to those attending.
2. Approval of Agenda
The draft agenda was approved with the following additions:
6.1.3 Request for Firmware Boot/Restart ASC/ASCQ (96-192r0)
[Monia]
6.5 SIP Public Review Comments [Penokie]
7.3 SCSI-2 Questions (96-212) [Monia]
3. Attendance and Membership
Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum
attendance requirements for X3T10 membership. Working group meetings
are open to any person or organization directly and materially
affected by X3T10's scope of work.
The following people attended the meeting:
Name S Organization Electronic Mail
Address
---------------------- -- -------------------------
-------------------------
Mr. Norm Harris P Adaptec, Inc.
nharris at eng.adaptec.com
Mr. Lawrence J. Lamers A Adaptec, Inc. ljlamers at aol.com
Mr. Charles Brill P AMP, Inc. cebrill at amp.com
Mr. Jan V. Dedek P Ancot Corp. dedek at ancot.com
Mr. Ron Roberts A Apple Computer rkroberts at aol.com
Mr. Jim Koser O BERG Electronics jkoser at aol.com
Mr. Douglas Wagner O Berg Electronics jpxw76a at prodigy.com
Mr. Bill Galloway O Compaq Computer Corp.
billg at bangate.compaq.com
Mr. Peter Johansson P Congruent Software, Inc. pjohansson at aol.com
Mr. Greg McSorley O Data General Corp.
greg_mcsorley at dgc.ceo.dg.
com
Mr. Charles Monia P Digital Equipment Corp. monia at shr.dec.com
Mr. William Dallas A# Digital Equipment Corp.
dallas at wasted.enet.dec.com
Mr. Roger Cummings P Distributed Processing
cummings_roger at dpt.com
Tech.
Mr. Edward Lappin P Exabyte Corp. tedl at exabyte.com
Mr. Gary R. Stephens P FSI Consulting Services 6363897 at mcimail.com
Mr. Andy Chen A Fujitsu Computer Prods
achen at fcpa.fujitsu.com
Amer
Mr. William Martin A# Hewlett Packard Co. wrm at core.rose.hp.com
Mr. Zane Daggett P Hitachi Cable
zdaggett at hcm.hitachi.com
Manchester,Inc
Mr. George Penokie P IBM Corp.
gop at rchvmp3.vnet.ibm.com
Mr. Robert Basham O IBM Corp. mabrewer at vnet.ibm.com
Mr. Giles Frazier V IBM Corp.
gfrazier at ausvm6.vnet.ibm.
com
Mr. Dean Wallace P Linfinity Micro
75671.3443 at compuserve.com
Mr. Robert Bellino P Madison Cable Corp.
robert_bellino at madisonusa
.ccmail.compuserve.com
Mr. Pete McLean P Maxtor Corp.
pete_mclean at maxtor.com
Mr. Edward A. Gardner P Ophidian Designs gardner at acm.org
Mr. Skip Jones P QLogic Corp. sk_jones at qlc.com
Mr. Mark Evans A Quantum Corp. mevans at qntm.com
Mr. Gene Milligan P Seagate Technology Gene_Milligan at notes.
seagate.com
Mr. Gerald Houlder A Seagate Technology Gerry_Houlder at notes.
seagate.com
Mr. Dave Guss P Silicon Systems, Inc.
dave.guss at tus.ssi1.com
Mr. Erich Oetting P Storage Technology Corp.
Erich_Oetting at Stortek.com
Mr. Robert N. Snively P Sun Microsystems Computer
bob.snively at eng.sun.com
Co
Mr. John Lohmeyer P Symbios Logic Inc.
john.lohmeyer at symbios.com
Mr. Rod DeKoning A Symbios Logic Inc.
rod.dekoning at symbios.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber A# Symbios Logic Inc. roweber at acm.org
Mr. Akram Atallah A SyQuest Technology, Inc.
akram.atallah at syquest.com
Mr. Arlan P. Stone A UNISYS Corporation
arlan.stone at mv.unisys.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi P Unitrode Integrated Aloisi at uicc.com
Circuits
Mr. Jeffrey L. P Western Digital
jwilliam at wdroc.wdc.com
Williams Corporation
39 People Present
Status Key: P - Principal
A,A# - Alternate
O - Observer
L - Liaison
V - Visitor
4. Physical Topics
4.1 Review of SPI Amendment (SPI Amnd) [Lamers/Johansson]
Larry Lamers reported that work on the ISO version of SPI is
progressing. The ANSI editorial changes have been incorporated. The
SPI amendment and ISO comments will be incorporated. It is expected
that a draft with these changes will be in the next mailing.
4.2 Arbitration Fairness (96-172) [Lohmeyer]
John Lohmeyer reviewed the proposal from yesteryear on arbitration
fairness. The working group recommend that arbitration fairness be
included in a future document (EPI, SPI-2, SUPR, ???). There exist
three fairness bits in the Disconnect Reconnect Page should be used to
control what phases use the fairness algorithm.
4.3 Document Strategy
John reported on the history of the debate about the contents of the
SPI-2 document. John focused on events that occurred during the last
two months. George Penokie and Gary Stephens objected to the change
in direction away from folding all the parallel definitions into SPI-
2. The group discussed the SPI-2 documentation strategy.
5. Protocol Topics
5.1 Problem with Non-interlocked Busses (96-173r0) [Monia]
Ed Gardner reported on the Serial Issues meeting (see the minutes in
96-204). The six-byte RESERVE and RELEASE commands should be declared
obsolete and the ten-byte made mandatory. Ed noted that there was a
lot of discussion on ordered delivery and device identification. An
extension to the current device identification in SPC is expected.
On the second meeting day, Rod DeKoning presented a draft proposal for
changing the device identification VPD page. The proposal adds a
logical unit / port flag bit to the identification descriptor.
5.2 New Task Management Models for SAM (96-198r0) [Johansson]
Peter Johansson presented a proposal with the details for the new task
models, basic, enhanced, and full.
Bob Snively suggested that the basic task model should not have the
ordered tag. Larry Lamers noted that existing software uses the ABORT
TASK. Sense information and contingent allegiance handling need
further clarification.
The group decided to renamed enhanced to basic. The group set the
basic requirements to SIMPLE tags only, no untagged commands. In
basic mode, the ABORT TASK, ABORT TASK SET, and TARGET RESET
management functions must be supported. Also, in the basic mode the
task set is cleared on CHECK CONDITION status.
Bill Galloway suggested that the basic queuing model support be
reported in INQUIRY data.
5.3 SAM-2 Changes & Layered Architecture (96-191r0) [Monia]
Charles Monia stated issues regarding current working drafts and
dpANS.
a) Relationships between SAM and other standards are not clear.
b) Ground rules for SAM compliance are undefined.
He suggested the use of OSI methods to refine the committee's draft
standards format. He proposed that the committee define compliance in
terms of a uniform SCSI service model and protocol.
5.4 Tape Support on FC-AL (Reflector Messages) [Hagerman]
Discussion of this topic was deferred to the September meeting since
Doug was not able to attend.
5.5 SBP-2 Rev 1 Review [Johansson]
Peter Johansson described the history, to date, of SBP-2. He
explained that problems with SBP have prevented its adoption as a disk
attachment interface. Peter noted that the current SBP-2 is somewhat
controversial within the group the developed the revision 1 draft.
The nature of the controversy was discussed.
Peter then described the design goals and key enhancements for SBP-2.
Peter provided an overview of major operational features of SBP-2.
The working group discussed Peter's presentation. Several concerns
were raised. Peter agreed to take the group's concerns into
consideration during future development work on SBP-2.
6. Command Set Topics
6.1 Resolution of the SCSI-3 Primary Commands (SPC) Forwarding
Comments [Weber]
The group discussed the notes produced by the several SPC editing
meetings. All issues raised by the editing meetings were resolved to
the satisfaction of the working group. In the absence of any
objections, the working group recommended that the plenary accept the
resolutions to the letter ballot comments on SPC (96-148r3), approve
SPC revision 9b as resolving the letter ballot comments, and approve
SPC revision 10 (revision 9b as modified by the working group) for
further processing toward first public review.
6.1.1 Test Unit Ready and Deferred Error Reporting (96-182)
[Stephens]
The working group resolved the issues raised by the Test Unit Ready
and Deferred Error Reporting proposal as part of the SPC forwarding
comments review.
6.1.2 Add Mode Page for fibre channel features (96-195) [Houlder]
Gerry Houlder presented a proposal to add a mode page for controlling
FC-AL features. The working group discussed the proposal at length.
Gerry was convinced that the issue should be deferred until X3T11
reaches consensus regarding the underlying features referenced in the
proposal.
6.1.3 Request for Firmware Boot/Restart ASC/ASCQ (96-192r0)
[Monia]
Charles presented a request for assignment of a new ASCQ in the ASC 29
group to identify Firmware Boot/Restart condition. The group
recommended that the plenary approve the assignment of ASC/ASCQ 29/04
to DEVICE INTERNAL RESET.
6.2 Review of SCSI-3 Enclosure Services (SES) [Snively]
Bob Snively reviewed the technical changes that produced revision 6 of
SES. The topic of multi-initiator support was discussed at length.
Bob described his plans to hold a letter ballot for forwarding the SES
revision to first public review.
Possible patent problems with implementing SES were discussed.
Concerns were raised about publicizing the fact that SES is replacing
SAF-TE. Bob agreed to work with Roger Cummings and others to
publicize the SES status.
6.3 Clarification of sleep mode (96-140) [Penokie]
George Penokie presented the revision of the sleep mode proposal (96-
140r3) produced in response to the comments made at the last working
group meeting. While presenting the power conditions flow model,
George noted that a state transition available in ATA is not available
in SCSI. SCSI does allow automatic transitions directly from Active
to Standby, Active must transition to Idle first. Larry Lamers
suggested that this limitation be documented in a note.
Several questions were raised about the new SAM-2 task management
functions. Most of the questions concerned wordsmithing issues.
George agreed to make minor changes. Several semantic questions were
discussed during the review of the part of the proposal affecting SIP.
Again, George agreed to make minor changes.
George asked that working group approve the proposal, as modified, for
inclusion in SBC, SAM-2, SIP. The request was discussed, but no
resolution was reached. The working group recommended that the
plenary consider the proposal.
6.4 SCSI-3 Block Commands (SBC) Review [Milligan]
Gene Milligan reported that SBC recently completed professional
editorial work to convert the table structure to modern word processor
format. He then described the planned future work on SBC. Gene
recommended that revision 4 be stabilized with the sleep mode
clarification listed as an approved addition.
6.4.1 Should READ(6), RESERVE(6), and RELEASE(6) be mandatory?
(96-183) [Stephens]
Larry Lamers reported that the Serial Issues Study Group recommended
making RESERVE(6) and RELEASE(6) optional. Giles Frazier proposed
that the six-byte commands be left mandatory but the third-party
feature be made obsolete. There was a debate over the choice between
the two proposals.
A series of straw votes were taken. Regarding the third-party feature
in the six-byte commands: leave mandatory 1, make obsolete 16.
Regarding checking of the obsolete feature: check 17, do not check 2.
Regarding the six-byte commands: leave mandatory 4, make optional 9,
make obsolete 6. A follow-up poll was taken eliminating the mandatory
choice regarding the six-byte commands: make optional 10, make
obsolete 6.
The group then turned to the issue of READ(6). It was noted that
WRITE(6) already is optional because some devices do not support
writing. Bob Snively moved that READ(6) and WRITE(6) be made
obsolete. Larry Lamers seconded the motion. The motion failed 3:7.
Gary Stephens moved that READ(6) be made optional. Gene Milligan
seconded the motion. The motion passed 6:3.
6.4.2 Security Initialization Proposal for SBC (96-186)
[Weber/Lohmeyer]
John Lohmeyer presented the proposal that resulted from the working
group discussion of erasing disks in government installations held
during the March Working Group meeting. Questions were raised
regarding whether the proposal covers just user data. It was agreed
that proposal covers only user data. However, user data that might be
hiding in reassigned blocks definitely is covered by the proposal. A
minor editorial change was made as a result of the discussion. In the
absence of any objections, the working group recommended that the
security initialization proposal be accepted by the plenary for
inclusion in SBC.
6.4.3 Additional XOR bit (96-194) [Houlder]
Gerry Houlder presented a proposal for improving the performance of
some cases handled by the recently approved XOR commands. Questions
were asked about the specific operation of the proposed enhancements.
These led to a discussion about possible data integrity problems that
could result from using the proposed new feature. The group proposed
other methods to achieve the same results. Gerry agreed to
communicate the group's suggestions to the originator of the proposal.
Gerry then agreed to withdraw the proposal.
6.5 SIP Public Review Comments [Penokie]
George reported that the public review comment has been resolved and
incorporated in SIP. However, there are other technical issues
delaying further processing of SIP.
7. Other Topics
7.1 Greater than 8GB Technical Report Review [Lamers/Penman]
Larry reported that a draft of the 8GB TR was in the last mailing.
Larry stated that the TR needs serious editorial review. Larry
suggested that, as an alternative, the TR project might be withdrawn.
Larry stated the belief that withdrawal would be acceptable to Duncan
Penman.
7.2 High Availability SCSI Profile (96-151r1) [Hagerman]
Discussion of this topic was deferred to the September meeting since
Doug was not able to attend.
7.3 SCSI-2 Questions (96-212) [Monia]
Charles presented a collection of assorted questions about SCSI-2.
The working group discussed the questions and provided answers.
8. Meeting Schedule
John reviewed the proposed meeting week schedule for September 1996.
The next meeting of X3T10 SCSI Working Group will be September 10-11,
1996, in Natick, MA at the Crowne Plaza Hotel (508-653-8800), hosted
by Digital Equipment Corp.
9. Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 5:16 p.m. on Wednesday July 17, 1996.
--
John Lohmeyer E-Mail: john.lohmeyer at symbios.com
Symbios Logic Inc. Voice: 719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr. Fax: 719-533-7036
Colo Spgs, CO 80907-3444 SCSI BBS: 719-533-7950 300--14400 baud
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