Minutes of SCSI Working Group 3/16/94

John Lohmeyer jlohmeye at ncr-mpd.FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM
Thu Apr 7 13:32:08 PDT 1994

Accredited Standards Committee
X3, Information Processing Systems
                                                 Doc. No.:  X3T10/94-070r0
                                                     Date:  April 7, 1994
                                                Ref. Doc.:  
                                                 Reply to:  J. Lohmeyer

To:            Membership of X3T10

From:          Lamers/Lohmeyer

Subject:       Minutes of X3T10 General Working Group  March 16, 1994


1.      Opening Remarks

2.      Attendance and Membership

3.      Approval of Agenda

4.      Physical Topics
    4.1    Ultra SCSI Progress Report (94-068) [Ham]
    4.2    Proposed changes to SPI (94-038) [Aloisi]
    4.3    SPI Public Review Comment Resolution (to add SCAM) [Lohmeyer]

5.      Protocol Topics

    5.1    SCSI-3 Architecture Model - SAM (Project 994D) [Monia]
    5.2    Autosense [Monia]
    5.3    SCSI-3 Fibre Channel Protocol (Project 993D) [Snively]
    5.4    Message Handling Chart for SIP (94-032) [Houlder]

6.      Command Set Topics
    6.1    SCSI-3 Download Microcode [McGrath]
    6.2    SCSI-3 Inquiry Command [McGrath]
    6.3    Data Recovery on Deferred Errors (94-067) [Houlder]
    6.4    Proposal for a WRITE BUFFER command (94-069) [Snively]
    6.5    RESERVE/RELEASE [Weber]
    6.6    P1355 Introduction [Strevens]

7.      Meeting Schedule

8.      Adjournment

                                     Results of Meeting

1.      Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer the Chair, called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m., Wednesday,
March 16, 1994.  He thanked Skip Jones of Qlogic for hosting the meeting.

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves.  A copy of the
attendance list was circulated for attendance and corrections.

It was stated that the meeting had been authorized by X3T10 and would be
conducted under the X3 rules.  Ad hoc meetings take no final actions, but
prepare recommendations for approval by the X3T10 task group.  The voting
rules for the meeting are those of the parent committee, X3T10.  These rules
are:  one vote per company; and any participating company member may vote.

The minutes of this meeting will be posted to the SCSI BBS and the SCSI
Reflector and will be included in the next committee mailing.

2.      Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for X3T10 membership.  Working group meetings are open to any
person or company to attend and to express their opinion on the subjects
being discussed.

The following people attended the meeting:

            SCSI Working Group Meeting Attenders -- March 16, 1994

         Name          S       Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- - ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Rick Heidick       A 3M Company
Mr. Norm Harris        P Adaptec, Inc.             nharris at adaptec.com
Mr. Lawrence J. Lamers A Adaptec, Inc.             ljlamers at adaptec.com
Mr. Neil T. Wanamaker  P Amdahl Corp.              ntw20 at amail.amdahl.com
Mr. Charles Brill      P AMP, Inc.                 cebrill at amp.com
Mr. Bob Whiteman       A AMP, Inc.                 whiteman at cup.portal.com
Mr. Ken Scherzinger    S Amphenol Spectra Strip
Mr. Carlos Orosco      V AST Computer              carlos.orosco at ast.com
Mr. Charles Binford    S AT&T GIS                  Charles.Binford at WichitaKS.
Mr. Ian Morrell        A Circuit Assembly Corp.
Mr. Michael Alexenko   A Conner Peripherals
Mr. Ken Smith          O Conner Peripherals        
                          KEN_SMITH+AENG+ASAN_JOSE%CONNER at MCIMAIL.COM
Mr. Ed Carmona         O Conner Peripherals        
Mr. Doug Pickford      O Conner Peripherals        
Mr. Paul Entzel        V Conner Peripherals
Ms. Adrienne Turenne   A Conner Tape
Mr. Louis Grantham     P Dallas Semiconductor      grantham at dalsemi.com
Mr. Charles Monia      P Digital Equipment Corp.   monia at starch.enet.dec.com
Mr. William Dallas     A Digital Equipment Corp.   dallas at wasted.enet.dec.com
Mr. Ralph Weber        A Digital Equipment Corp.   weber at star.enet.dec.com
Mr. Edward A. Gardner  A Digital Equipment Corp.   gardner at ssag.enet.dec.com
Mr. I. Dal Allan       P ENDL                      2501752 at mcimail.com
Mr. Kenneth J. Hallam  A ENDL                      khallam at endlas.com
Mr. Edward Lappin      P Exabyte Corp.             tedl at exabyte.com
Mr. Gary R. Stephens   P FSI Consulting Services   6363897 at mcimail.com
Mr. Robert Liu         P Fujitsu Computer Products
Mr. Jeff Williams      P Hewlett Packard Co.       jlw at hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
Mr. William Clemmey    A Hewlett Packard Co.       clemmey_w at apollo.hp.com
Mr. Kurt Chan          A Hewlett Packard Co.       kc at core.rose.hp.com
Ms. Nancy Cheng        O Hitachi Computer Products n_cheng at hitachi.com
Mr. George Penokie     P IBM Corp.                 gop at rchvmp3.vnet.ibm.com
Mr. Giles Frazier      O IBM Corp.                 gfrazier at ausvm6.vnet.ibm.com
Mr. Ken Cummings       O IBM Corp.                 kenc at tucvm2.vnet.ibm.com
Mr. Gary Brandvold     O Iomega Corp.
Mr. Geoff Barton       O Iomega Corp.              glbarton at iomega.com
Mr. Dean Wallace       P Linfinity Micro
Mr. Ron Roberts        P Maxtor Corp.              ron_roberts at maxtor.com
Mr. Cliff W. Carlson   O NCCOSC RDTE DIV 821       wcarlson at nosc.mil
Mr. Robert GallenbergerO NCCOSC RDTE DIV 821       wcarlson at nosc.mil
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P NCR Microelectronic       john.lohmeyer at ftcollinsco.
Mr. Greg Kapraun       A NCR Microelectronic       Greg.Kapraun at ftcollinsco.
Mr. Dan Davies         O Overland Data Inc.
Mr. Stephen F. Heil    P Panasonic Technologies,   sfh at research.panasonic.com
Mr. Skip Jones         O QLogic Corp.              sk_jones at qlc.com
Mr. Ting Le Chan       O QLogic Corp.
Mr. Gary Dickinson     V QLogic Corp.              g_dickinson at qlc.com
Mr. Wayne Dupre        V QLogic Corp.
Mr. James McGrath      P Quantum Corp.             JMCGRATH at QNTM.COM
Mr. Gerald Houlder     A Seagate Technology        Gerry_Houlder at notes.seagate.
Mr. Stephen G. Finch   P Silicon Systems, Inc.     5723283 at mcimail.com
Mr. David Deming       O Solution Technology
Mr. Erich Oetting      P Storage Technology Corp.  Erich_Oetting at Stortek.com
Mr. Robert N. Snively  P Sun Microsystems, Inc.    Bob.Snively at sun.com
Mr. Vit Novak          A Sun Microsystems, Inc.    vit.novak at sun.com
Mr. Pete Tobias        A Tandem Computers          Tobias_Pete at Tandem.com
Mr. Harvey Waltersdorf P Thomas & Betts
Mr. Peter Dougherty    P UNISYS Corporation        peter.dougherty at mv-oc.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi     P Unitrode                  Aloisi at uicc.com
Mr. Jeff Stai          P Western Digital           stai at dt.wdc.com
Mr. Tak Asami          A Western Digital           asami at dt.wdc.com
Mr. Duncan Penman      O Zadian Technologies

61 People Present

Status Key:  P   -  Principal
             A   -  Alternate
             O   -  Observer
             L   -  Liaison
             S,V -  Visitor

3.      Approval of Agenda

The proposed agenda was approved.

4.      Physical Topics

4.1     Ultra SCSI Progress Report (94-068) [Ham]

Bill Ham summarized the ultra-SCSI activity to date and presented a progress
report on the ultra-SCSI testing.  See 94-068 for details.

Bill also showed 40 mega-transfer test data on 20 meter cable 30AWG using 27
individual transceivers.  The test data shows adequete margins in the test

The setup and hold measurement diagram was discussed.  Giles Frazier
questioned the slew rates specified.  His concern was interoperability of
fast and ultra.

Kurt Chan questioned the cable distortion value of 2 ns.  He asked if there
was any test data to support the reduction from 4 ns.  Bill stated he did not
know how to test for distortion and asked for input on this.

Bill Ham stated that at least two cable vendors stated that 2 ns of cable
skew was sufficient.

Jeff Williams questioned the transciever performance with temperature
variations; he noted that temperature effects have been a significant issue
in the past.

John Lohmeyer stated that a project proposal has been put together for
consideration at the plenary.  

Paul Aloisi questioned the 5.25 V d.c. maximum high voltage should be

4.2     Proposed changes to SPI (94-038) [Aloisi]

Paul Aloisi presented a proposal to limit the termpower decoupling
capacitance to 10 uf.  He stated several companies have had problems in hot
plug environments where glitches occur on the data bus if the termpower
decoupling capacitance is too large.  The primary cause of the glitches is
that term power sags during the time it takes to charge the decoupling

A small group of folks will develop wording for the plenary to consider for
incorporation into SPI.

There also is an issue with battery powered systems.  Paul will investigate
having a study group in this area.

4.3     SPI Public Review Comment Resolution (to add SCAM) [Lohmeyer]

John Lohmeyer noted that one comment was received regarding SPI.  This
comment regarding incorporation of SCAM as a normative annex.

5.      Protocol Topics

5.1     SCSI-3 Architecture Model - SAM (Project 994D) [Monia]

Charles Monia presented his current working version of SAM.  His intention
is to take comments from today and prepare a version to go to letter ballot
concurrent with the next mailing.

5.2     Autosense [Monia]

5.3     SCSI-3 Fibre Channel Protocol (Project 993D) [Snively]

John Lohmeyer reported on the letter ballot results.  Two no votes were

Bob Snively stated that he is working on the comments.  A working group is
planned for Seattle to resolve comments.

5.4     Message Handling Chart for SIP (94-032) [Houlder]

Gerry Houlder discussed his proposal for message handling.  The document was
in the mailing.  Gerry is looking for feedback on the proposal.

The way to deal with an illegal/inappropriate message is to use the MESSAGE
REJECT and continue.

Gerry would like to take a motion for inclusion in SIP at the May plenary.

6.      Command Set Topics

6.1     SCSI-3 Download Microcode [McGrath]

Jim McGrath stated that there is a problem with his customers using download
microcode when more that 64kb of code needs to be downloaded.  He requested
changing the buffer id field and allowing it to be used for the download
microcode operation.  

Per Bob Snively's comments the proposal will change to allow any non-zero
buffer id could use the relative offset to download more than 64kb of

Jim McGrath noted that there is a desire to have multiple versions of
firmware present in the device.  He proposed using the buffer id to indicate
different versions of firmware.

Gerry Houlder noted that CHANGE DEFINITION is the way to deal with this.

6.2     SCSI-3 Inquiry Command [McGrath]

The revision level field in INQUIRY data is fairly useless with the advent
of multiple SCSI-3 documents.  What is needed is compliance information in
more detail.  A vital product data page was suggested as the right mechanism. 
The compliance page should deal with the profiles being developed.

6.3     Data Recovery on Deferred Errors (94-067) [Houlder]

Gerry Houlder brought in a proposal for dealing with data recovery on
deferred errors.  There was considerable sentiment that this issue is not
relevant to the way write caching is implemented in disk drives.

Gerry will go off to work on a more focused proposal based on the comments

6.4     Proposal for a WRITE BUFFER command (94-069) [Snively]

Discussed in item 6.1.

6.5     RESERVE/RELEASE [Weber]

Ralph Weber, looking for guidance as the editor of SPC, brought up the a
question on dealing with the RESERVE/RELEASE commands using third party.

One proposal is to use a 10-byte CDB with an extended parameter list.  This
appears to the best starting place.

6.6     P1355 Introduction [Strevens]

Colin Whitby-Strevens of INMOS made a presentation on P1355.

The ftp server is ftp.inmos.co.uk.  The document is located in
primary\projects\ieee\hic.  The reflector address is ieee-hic at inmos.co.uk. 
To subscribe send an email to ieee-hic-request.inmos.co.uk.

7.      Meeting Schedule

The next working group meetings will be May 16-18, 1994 at the Sheraton Inn
(717-561-2800) in Harrisburg, PA hosted by AMP.  The room rates are $69.00
plus tax.  The reservation deadline for these rates is April 26, 1994.  The
group name is AMP/ANSI.  The host contact is Chuck Brill at TEL: 717-561-
6198, FAX: 717-561-6179, (cebrill at amp.com).

8.      Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m. on Wednesday March 16, 1994.

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