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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">For what it is worth, I would vote to keep fields ‘human’ readable (aka SCSI friendly).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The guiding principle would be to keep the Parallel ATA register legacy craziness to the SATL layer if needed and don’t burden the ‘logical’ side of the host
 that is using ATA passthrough commands.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John Geldman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">(Person in-charge of my opinions)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.micron.com/"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="168" height="45" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01D123AF.225CEFA0"></span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:gray"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:gray;text-transform:uppercase">John Geldman</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:gray"><br>
Director, Industry Standards, <br>
<br>
Micron Technology, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:gray">Office</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:gray">&nbsp;&#43;1 (408) 822-0348 &nbsp;<b>Mobile</b>&nbsp;&#43;1 (510) 449-3597<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:gray"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:jgeldman@micron.com" title="Email"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:gray">jgeldman@micron.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:gray">&nbsp;
<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> t10-bounces@t10.org [mailto:t10-bounces@t10.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Neil Wanamaker<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 20, 2015 3:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Knight,Frederick; Gerry Houlder<br>
<b>Cc:</b> t10@t10.org; nathan seiler; terry.denney@hpe.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [T10] ATA PASS-THROUGH(32) straw poll<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Fred,<br>
<br>
The original proposal was indeed modeled after the existing ATA PASS-THROUGH(16), but that is friendly to neither the initator nor the SATL. For example, the LBA bytes are ordered in a way that only makes sense if you are reading the parallel ATA spec; both
 initiator and SATL have to twiddle the bytes. <br>
<br>
Option 2 has big-endian and aligned fields for LBA, block count, etc. Option 3 is intended to be FIS-friendly (even more so if the AUX fields are ordered correctly (i.e., little-endian). I have marked up John's side-by-side comparison.
<br>
<br>
Any thoughts as to whether DEVICE CONTROL and FLAGS should be able to be supplied by the application? Or... is that altogether too much rope?<br>
<br>
BTW, only two people have actually expressed preferences...<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
Neil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">-----Original Message-----
<br>
From: &quot;Knight, Frederick&quot; <br>
Sent: Nov 20, 2015 3:04 PM <br>
To: Gerry Houlder <br>
Cc: nathan seiler , &quot;</span><a href="mailto:t10@t10.org"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">t10@t10.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&quot; , &quot;</span><a href="mailto:terry.denney@hpe.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">terry.denney@hpe.com</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">&quot;
<br>
Subject: Re: [T10] ATA PASS-THROUGH(32) straw poll <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">What I heard at the meeting was that the original proposed approach was SATA FIS friendly.&nbsp; It had been modeled after the existing PASS THROUGH command which
 was also supposedly FIS friendly.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Did anyone verify that?</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fred</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">
</span><a href="mailto:t10-bounces@t10.org"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">t10-bounces@t10.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"> [</span><a href="mailto:t10-bounces@t10.org"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">mailto:t10-bounces@t10.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gerry Houlder<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 17, 2015 11:43 AM<br>
<b>Cc:</b> </span><a href="mailto:t10@t10.org"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">t10@t10.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">;
</span><a href="mailto:terry.denney@hpe.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">terry.denney@hpe.com</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">; nathan seiler<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [T10] ATA PASS-THROUGH(32) straw poll</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Just my opinion, but I don't see anything that is &quot;SCSI friendly&quot; about the second choice.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3">
The LBA bytes don't land within bytes 14-19, where the lower 6 bytes of LBA are for 32 byte commands.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3">
The Count field doesn't land in bytes 28-31, where the 4 byte transfer length is for 32 byte commands.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3">
Most &nbsp;of the rest of the ATA fields don't have a SCSI equivalent.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Any &quot;SCSI friendly&quot; arrangement would seem to be completely arbitrary and therefore not very helpful. This leads me to think that the third option (ATA friendly) makes the most sense.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Neil Wanamaker &lt;</span><a href="mailto:ntw20@earthlink.net" target="_blank">ntw20@earthlink.net</a><span style="color:black">&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">John,<br>
<br>
I must agree that your presentation makes it much easier to follow the differences.<br>
<br>
I should likely have renamed Control(7:0) to be Device Control(7:0) to disambiguate it..<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Neil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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-----Original Message-----<br>
&gt;From: &quot;John Geldman (jgeldman)&quot; &lt;</span><a href="mailto:jgeldman@micron.com" target="_blank">jgeldman@micron.com</a><span style="color:black">&gt;<br>
&gt;Sent: Nov 16, 2015 8:01 PM<br>
&gt;To: Neil Wanamaker &lt;</span><a href="mailto:ntw20@earthlink.net" target="_blank">ntw20@earthlink.net</a><span style="color:black">&gt;, &quot;</span><a href="mailto:t10@t10.org" target="_blank">t10@t10.org</a><span style="color:black">&quot; &lt;</span><a href="mailto:t10@t10.org" target="_blank">t10@t10.org</a><span style="color:black">&gt;<br>
&gt;Cc: nathan seiler &lt;</span><a href="mailto:Nathan.Seiler@InsightGlobal.net" target="_blank">Nathan.Seiler@InsightGlobal.net</a><span style="color:black">&gt;, &quot;</span><a href="mailto:terry.denney@hpe.com" target="_blank">terry.denney@hpe.com</a><span style="color:black">&quot;
 &lt;</span><a href="mailto:terry.denney@hpe.com" target="_blank">terry.denney@hpe.com</a><span style="color:black">&gt;<br>
&gt;Subject: RE: [T10] ATA PASS-THROUGH(32) straw poll<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Neil,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;It may be late and I may be intellectually lazy tonight, but that is the most convoluted presentation of material that I've seen in a while. It takes more effort than I can muster this evening to visualize each two page table and mentally find the differences.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;The attached spreadsheet is an easier way to look. (Now I see the SCSI-friendly version has the fields in contiguous order, while the SATA-friendly version has the fields in all master/all slave order).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;The attached does also reveal that your 2nd and 3rd table have a Control (7:0) field that doesn't exist in the first table.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;While I fixed inconsistent names, explaining the 'odd' Control field is up to you (I think it is a duplicate of the SCSI field).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Grumpily yours,<br>
&gt;John<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;-----Original Message-----<br>
&gt;From: </span><a href="mailto:t10-bounces@t10.org" target="_blank">t10-bounces@t10.org</a><span style="color:black"> [mailto:</span><a href="mailto:t10-bounces@t10.org" target="_blank">t10-bounces@t10.org</a><span style="color:black">] On Behalf Of Neil Wanamaker<br>
&gt;Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 6:57 PM<br>
&gt;To: </span><a href="mailto:t10@t10.org" target="_blank">t10@t10.org</a><span style="color:black"><br>
&gt;Cc: nathan seiler; </span><a href="mailto:terry.denney@hpe.com" target="_blank">terry.denney@hpe.com</a><span style="color:black"><br>
&gt;Subject: [T10] ATA PASS-THROUGH(32) straw poll<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;All:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;At the recent T10 CAP meeting, Gerry Houlder presented 15-269r0, which included a new ATA PASS-THROUGH(32) command. In his proposal, he made the CDB structure consistent with the form of the ATA PASS-THROUGH(16), adding AUX and ICC at the end.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;In general, I applaud consistency, but... the ATA PASS-THROUGH(16) command seems to have few redeeming features - it is neither convenient for the SCSI initiator or for the SATL, what with the LBAs being scrambled, etc.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;To make the new command convenient for either the initiator or the SATL, I would like feedback on which of the three formats in the attachment would be preferable.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;The first is Gerry's proposal unchanged apart from using a service action of the form xx00, as the SPC editor suggests reserving a block of service actions (such as 3000h-37ffh)for SAT, as shown in Table E.8 of SPC-5.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;The second is a SCSI-friendly structure, putting LBA and AUX in big-endian form aligned to appropriate boundaries. I have added the CONTROL(7:0) field (which could be added to the first proposal, if people wanted to go that route.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;The third is a SAT (or ATA if you prefer) - friendly structure, which may be familiar to some of you.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;I would appreciate feedback from the audience as to which of these best meets your needs.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Best regards,<br>
&gt;Neil Wanamaker<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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