[T10] Copy of revised chapter 6 showing approved changes

Gerry Houlder gerry.houlder at seagate.com
Wed Sep 27 14:22:14 PDT 2017


So Patrick, your engineers at Toshiba re correct that a scrambled idle
segment is something that is deletable. The issue for SPL-4 standard is
that this figure and text is intended to describe only those items that are
handled at the link layer. Since the scrambled idle segment is deleted at a
lower level than the link layer, they will never arrive at the link layer
and do not have to be described in that part of the state machine.

The scrambled idle segment is described as deletable in the next lower
level state machine, so it is not overlooked by SPL-4.

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 1:19 PM, Tim Symons <tim.symons at microsemi.com>
wrote:

> Patrick,
>
>
>
> I strongly disagree – as we discussed during the meeting, the Scrambled
> Idle segment is NOT in the class of deletable primitives. It is a packet
> that is removed at the phy layer, just as the ALIGN primitives are removed
> for dword mode.
>
> The reason for the list of deletable primitives, deletable binary
> primitives and deletable extended primitives is because these are
> primitives that may be processed by the link layer, which means text is
> required to describe ignoring them.
>
>
>
> The revised diagrams are accurate.
>
> Please provide more information if your engineering team still does not
> understand the resolution.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Tim.
>
>
>
> *From:* t10-bounces at t10.org [mailto:t10-bounces at t10.org] *On Behalf Of *Patrick
> Hery
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 27, 2017 10:35 AM
> *To:* Curtis Stevens <curtis.stevens at wdc.com>; T10 Reflector <t10 at t10.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [T10] Copy of revised chapter 6 showing approved changes
>
>
>
> EXTERNAL EMAIL
>
> Hi Curtis,
>
>
>
> Yes, we believe there is still more work to do.
>
> 1.       Our engineers tell us that we still need item e) “a scrambled
> idle segment” added to the list in sections 6.2.4.6 and 6.2.4.7 as it was
> originally listed in r0 of proposal 17-135.  This is because even though a
> scrambled idle segment is not identified as a “deletable primitive” it is
> still discarded and thus should be in the list of items that are not
> supposed to be counted.
>
> 2.       We believe the original diagrams provided in r0 of 17-135
> (figures 131 & 133) are correct and are more informative than the ones
> selected because they show both a proper detection and a missed detection
> due to insufficient dwords.  We would like to see these added back into
> chapter 6.
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Patrick Hery
>
> *From:* t10-bounces at t10.org [mailto:t10-bounces at t10.org
> <t10-bounces at t10.org>] *On Behalf Of *Curtis Stevens
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:50 AM
> *To:* T10 Reflector
> *Subject:* [T10] Copy of revised chapter 6 showing approved changes
>
>
>
> [Forwarded on behalf of Joe Breher]
>
>
>
> I am not ‘one of the SPL experts’. That said, this is somewhat
> disconcerting. IIUC, is this saying that we still have work to do in
> correcting SPL-4 before reinitiating public review?
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> *Joe Breher*
> Storage Architecture Technologist
>
> *Western Digital®*
> Standards Setting Organization
> San Jose Research Center
> +1 (478) 2-Breher
> +1 (478) 227-3437 <(478)%20227-3437>
>
>
>
> On Sep 25, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Tom Friend <Tom.Friend at taec.toshiba.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> I have received the following from our engineering department concerning
> the SPL-4 edits discussed in our last T10 F2F meeting. Can one of our SPL
> experts reply to this please?
>
>
>
> TIA,
>
>
>
> Tom Friend
>
>
>
> Director, Industry Standards
>
> Toshiba America Electronic Components, Inc.
>
> *SSD Business Unit*
>
> 55 Trimble Road, San Jose, CA  95134
>
> Mobile: +1(360)860-1831 <(360)%20860-1831>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* kenji.yoshida at toshiba.co.jp [mailto:kenji.yoshida at toshiba.co.jp
> <kenji.yoshida at toshiba.co.jp>]
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 24, 2017 6:24 PM
> *To:* Tom Friend <Tom.Friend at taec.toshiba.com>;
> toyohide1.isshi at toshiba.co.jp; katsuhiko.takeuchi at toshiba.co.jp
> *Cc:* koichi.nagai at toshiba.co.jp; shisei1.fujiwara at toshiba.co.jp;
> tasuku.kasebayashi at toshiba.co.jp; keiichi.yorimitsu at toshiba.co.jp; daisu
> ke.mito at toshiba.co.jp; masafumi1.satou at toshiba.co.jp; Patrick Hery <
> Patrick.Hery at taec.toshiba.com>
> *Subject:* RE: Copy of revised chapter 6 showing approved changes
>
>
>
> Tom-san,
>
>
>
> You first have to correct your misunderstanding of:
>
> >>Scrambled Idle segments are not deletable
>
>
>
> Scrambled idle segments are discarded at SP_PS receiver. Therefore, they
> are discarded (deleted) at
>
> the phy layer and not sent to the link layer.
>
> Same thing is mentioned by Mr. Brad Besmer at
>
> http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=17-151r0.pdf
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.t10.org_cgi-2Dbin_ac.pl-3Ft-3Dd-26f-3D17-2D151r0.pdf&d=DwMGaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=TxI1DC4HavpWBdSmUqvdNvSwgOklhaW328zLt5AOpPM&m=PyBAfrcgTu45m__fAZc8au75RiTH6KEJejGVlSwQbCg&s=8BqvERkKMZ_IQFyJAwsyJr9388RkKqj9lGQze6uve54&e=>
>
>
>
>
>
> He describes : A Scrambled Idle Segment is used for RATE MATCHING and the
> transmitter may add them
>
> and *the receiver simply discards them*
>
>
>
> He has to post it because Toshiba’s r1 is wrong. In Toshiba r1, scrambled
> idle segments are counted as
>
> a part of consecutive dwords. (same mistake as original spl4r11)
>
>
>
> So the modified figure in his proposal is consistent with the text.
>
> However, I would rather bring the figure back to Toshiba r0 because
> Toshiba r0 is also correct and
>
> consistent, and it also has the example of not detecting the second
> instance due to insufficient dwords.
>
> Mr. Brad Besmer’s modification and Toshiba r2 don’t have this example. So
> Toshiba r0 figure is better.
>
>
>
> So the history is like this:
>
> spl4r11’s figure 131 & 133 : wrong
>
> Toshiba r0’s figure 131 &133  : correct
>
> Toshiba r1’s figure 131 &133 : wrong
>
> Toshiba r2’s figure 131 &133 : correct, but less informative
>
>
>
>
>
> Further, as I repeatedly say,
>
>
>
> *e) a scrambled idle segment.*
>
>
>
> should be added back in the text. So simply r0 is correct and there was no
> need to change.
>
> If you still insist r0 needs to be changed, please specify which portion.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Kenji Yoshida
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tom Friend [mailto:tom1.friend at glb.toshiba.co.jp
> <tom1.friend at glb.toshiba.co.jp>]
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 23, 2017 1:25 AM
> *To:* yoshida kenji(吉田 賢治 TDSC ○SP統□HD技○HD六); isshi toyohide(一司 豊秀 TMC ○
> SSDジ□SSD応○SD応企); takeuchi katsuhiko(竹内 克彦 TMC ○SSDジ□ES技○ES二)
> *Cc:* nagai koichi(永井 宏一 TMC ○SSDジ□SSD応○SD応企); fujiwara shisei(藤原 至誠 TMC ○
> SSDジ□SSD応○SD応二); kasebayashi tasuku(加瀬林 祐 TDSC ○SPジ□HDD応○HD応企); yorimitsu
> keiichi(依光 圭一 TDSC ○SPジ□HDD応○HD応企); mito daisuke(水戸 大輔 TDSC ○CSRD□ET開○ET3);
> satou masafumi(佐藤 正文 TDSC ○SPジ□HDD応○HD応企); Patrick Hery
> *Subject:* RE: Copy of revised chapter 6 showing approved changes
>
>
>
> Hello Yoshida-san,
>
>
>
> Attached is the final version that was approved in the plenary yesterday.
> It has changed from the previously sent version. Please review this so that
> we can use this as the basis for all ongoing conversations.
>
>
>
> There is one important thing you need to understand. Scrambled Idle
> segments are not deletable and they are 4 dwords in length. This is the
> main reason that so many changes were made to your corrections. Once that
> misunderstanding was taken into account, T10 was able to understand the
> rest of the errors in SPL-4 and so the attached file shows how they will
> make those corrections.
>
>
>
> Thank you for your help with this,
>
>
>
> Tom Friend
>
>
>
> Director, Industry Standards
>
> Toshiba America Electronic Components, Inc.
>
> *SSD Business Unit*
>
> 55 Trimble Road, San Jose, CA  95134
>
> Mobile: +1(360)860-1831 <(360)%20860-1831>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* kenji.yoshida at toshiba.co.jp [mailto:kenji.yoshida at toshiba.co.jp
> <kenji.yoshida at toshiba.co.jp>]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 21, 2017 8:54 PM
> *To:* toyohide1.isshi at toshiba.co.jp; katsuhiko.takeuchi at toshiba.co.jp
> *Cc:* Tom Friend <Tom.Friend at taec.toshiba.com>; koichi.nagai at toshiba.co.jp
> ;  shisei1.fujiwara at toshiba.co.jp <shisei1.fujiwara at toshiba.co.jp>;
>  tasuku.kasebayashi at toshiba.co.jp <tasuku.kasebayashi at toshiba.co.jp>;
>  keiichi.yorimitsu at toshiba.co.jp <keiichi.yorimitsu at toshiba.co.jp>;
>  daisuke.mito at toshiba.co.jp <daisuke.mito at toshiba.co.jp>; masafumi1.
> satou at toshiba.co.jp; Patrick Hery <Patrick.Hery at taec.toshiba.com>
> *Subject:* RE: Copy of revised chapter 6 showing approved changes
>
>
>
> (I added some more HDD members in the loop.)
>
>
>
> Tom-san,
>
>
>
> Instead of modifying our correction requests w.r.t. 6.2.4.6 and 6.2.4.7
>
> from 17-135r0 to 17-135r2 as you uploaded recently,
>
> I would rather bring it back to r0.
>
> In the r0 request, the figure contains both
>
> “second instance is not detected due to insufficient consecutive dwords”
> and
>
> “second instance is detected because of enough consecutive dwords”.
>
> So the r0 figure is more informative than r2.
>
> Furthermore, please modify back to original r0 for the below portion of
> 6.2.4.6 and 6.2.4.7
>
>
>
> a) the original primitive;
>
> b) a deletable primitive;
>
> c) a deletable binary primitive;
>
> d) a deletable extended binary primitive; or
>
> e) a scrambled idle segment.
>
>
>
> As you know,  the dwords in scrambled idle segments are all discarded at
> SP_PS
>
> receiver and hence it cannot be a part of “consecutive dwords” so the red
> portion above
>
> is needed.
>
> Please let us know your opinion.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> Kenji Yoshida
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* isshi toyohide(一司 豊秀 TMC ○SSDジ□SSD応○SD応企)
> *Sent:* Friday, September 22, 2017 11:13 AM
> *To:* yoshida kenji(吉田 賢治 TDSC ○SP統□HD技○HD六); takeuchi katsuhiko(竹内 克彦 TMC
>  ○SSDジ□ES技○ES二)
> *Cc:* friend tom(TAEC ISSPI); nagai koichi(永井 宏一 TMC ○SSDジ□SSD応○SD応企);
> fujiwara shisei(藤原 至誠 TMC ○SSDジ□SSD応○SD応二); kasebayashi tasuku(加瀬林 祐 TDSC
>  ○SPジ□HDD応○HD応企)
> *Subject:* RE: Copy of revised chapter 6 showing approved changes
>
>
>
> 吉田さん
>
>
>
> 一司です。
>
>
>
> ありがとうございます。
>
>
>
> 大変申し訳ありませんが、私はT10の内容までカバーできておりません。
>
> 英語でFeedbackいただけないでしょうか?
>
> 日本語でやり取りしていましたが、あて先にTomが入ったままでした。
>
> スレッドにレスする形でOKです。
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* yoshida kenji(吉田 賢治  TDSC ○SP統□HD技○HD六)
> *Sent:* Friday, September 22, 2017 10:13 AM
> *To:* isshi toyohide(一司  豊秀 TMC ○SSDジ□SSD応○SD応企) <
> toyohide1.isshi at toshiba.co.jp>; takeuchi katsuhiko(竹内 克彦  TMC ○SSDジ□ES技○
> ES二) <katsuhiko.takeuchi at toshiba.co.jp>
> *Cc:* friend tom(TAEC ISSPI) <tom1.friend at glb.toshiba.co.jp>; nagai
> koichi(永井 宏一  TMC ○SSDジ□SSD応○SD応企) <koichi.nagai at toshiba.co.jp>; fujiwara
> shisei(藤原 至誠  TMC ○SSDジ□SSD応○SD応二) <shisei1.fujiwara at toshiba.co.jp>;
> kasebayashi tasuku(加瀬林 祐  TDSC ○SPジ□HDD応○HD応企) <
> tasuku.kasebayashi at toshiba.co.jp>
> *Subject:* RE: Copy of revised chapter 6 showing approved changes
>
>
>
> 一司さん
>
>
>
> 変更点は、6.2.4.6(2回目検出判断の除外条件追加)と、
>
> 6.2.4.7(2回目検出判断の除外条件追加)およびFigure133
>
> ですが、この変更は誤りです。
>
> 元の提案通りに直していただく必要があります。
>
> このFigure133修正でダメなことは、すでにT10でBrad Besmerさんから指摘されていますが、
>
> http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=17-151r0.pdf
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.t10.org_cgi-2Dbin_ac.pl-3Ft-3Dd-26f-3D17-2D151r0.pdf&d=DwMGaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=TxI1DC4HavpWBdSmUqvdNvSwgOklhaW328zLt5AOpPM&m=PyBAfrcgTu45m__fAZc8au75RiTH6KEJejGVlSwQbCg&s=8BqvERkKMZ_IQFyJAwsyJr9388RkKqj9lGQze6uve54&e=>
>
> そこでまた場当たり的な訂正をTomがしているので
>
> http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=17-135r2.pdf
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.t10.org_cgi-2Dbin_ac.pl-3Ft-3Dd-26f-3D17-2D135r2.pdf&d=DwMGaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=TxI1DC4HavpWBdSmUqvdNvSwgOklhaW328zLt5AOpPM&m=PyBAfrcgTu45m__fAZc8au75RiTH6KEJejGVlSwQbCg&s=RYD1FPcDrJs9GJo6mAxnC-F3dZ-PEcWnZV50CAAw-VA&e=>
>
>
>
> これでもだめ(不十分)です。
>
> すべて吉田の元の修正に戻していただきたいです。
>
> 吉田の元の修正は、Packetモード時にRedundantやTrippleの2回目を検出
>
> 「しない」例と検出「できる」例が両方含まれています。Tomの上げた17-135r2のほうは
>
> 「しない」例がありません。
>
> また、除外条件の中に、Scrambled idle segment が含まれるべき
>
> ですので、その点でも元の吉田の提案通りにすることをお願いします。
>
>
>
> 吉田
>
>
>
> *From:* isshi toyohide(一司 豊秀 TMC ○SSDジ□SSD応○SD応企)
> *Sent:* Friday, September 22, 2017 9:00 AM
> *To:* takeuchi katsuhiko(竹内 克彦 TMC ○SSDジ□ES技○ES二); yoshida kenji(吉田 賢治
> TDSC ○SP統□HD技○HD六)
> *Cc:* friend tom(TAEC ISSPI); nagai koichi(永井 宏一 TMC ○SSDジ□SSD応○SD応企);
> fujiwara shisei(藤原 至誠 TMC ○SSDジ□SSD応○SD応二); kasebayashi tasuku(加瀬林 祐 TDSC
>  ○SPジ□HDD応○HD応企)
> *Subject:* RE: Copy of revised chapter 6 showing approved changes
>
>
>
> 竹内さん、吉田さん
>
>
>
> (SD応企)一司です。
>
>
>
> お世話になっております。
>
>
>
> TEAC Tom  から、SPL-4の修正があり、Voting が必要だから確認してくれと
>
> 依頼がありました。
>
> どこが変更されているかもよくわからないDraftが添付されてきたのですが、
>
> これって、何ヶ月か前のSSS F2F meeting でTom にSAS SPL-4 の変更確認を
>
> 依頼した件かと思い、転送します。
>
>
>
> Tomには1日で確認なんてできないとは伝えてはありますが、
>
> Voting  はあるようなので、何らかの投票はなされるかもしれません。
>
>
>
> 何はともあれ、内容確認をお願いできますでしょうか?
>
>
>
> お手数おかけいたしますが、よろしくお願いいたします。
>
>
>
> *From:* isshi toyohide(一司 豊秀  TMC ○SSDジ□SSD応○SD応企)
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 21, 2017 4:25 PM
> *To:* 'Tom Friend' <tom1.friend at glb.toshiba.co.jp>; nagai koichi(永井 宏一
> TMC ○SSDジ□SSD応○SD応企) <koichi.nagai at toshiba.co.jp>; fujiwara shisei(藤原 至誠
> TMC ○SSDジ□SSD応○SD応二) <shisei1.fujiwara at toshiba.co.jp>
> *Subject:* RE: Copy of revised chapter 6 showing approved changes
>
>
>
> +Fujiwara-san,
>
>
>
> Hello Fujiwara-san,
>
> Could you please check the file and provide Tom feedbacks if you have?
>
>
>
> TIA
>
> Toyohide Isshi
>
>
>
> *From:* Tom Friend [mailto:tom1.friend at glb.toshiba.co.jp
> <tom1.friend at glb.toshiba.co.jp>]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 21, 2017 1:41 PM
> *To:* isshi toyohide(一司  豊秀 TMC ○SSDジ□SSD応○SD応企) <
> toyohide1.isshi at toshiba.co.jp>; nagai koichi(永井 宏一  TMC ○SSDジ□SSD応○SD応企) <
> koichi.nagai at toshiba.co.jp>
> *Subject:* FW: Copy of revised chapter 6 showing approved changes
>
>
>
> Hello Isshi-san & Nagai-san,
>
>
>
> Here are the changes that were implemented today to SPL-4 in the T10 CAP
> meeting. We will be voting to approve this tomorrow during the plenary
> session, so it is not finalized until approved during that meeting.
>
>
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
>
>
> Tom Friend
>
>
>
> Director, Industry Standards
>
> Toshiba America Electronic Components, Inc.
>
> *SSD Business Unit*
>
> 55 Trimble Road, San Jose, CA  95134
>
> Mobile: +1(360)860-1831 <(360)%20860-1831>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tim Symons [mailto:tim.symons at microsemi.com
> <tim.symons at microsemi.com>]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 20, 2017 8:24 PM
> *To:* Tom Friend <Tom.Friend at taec.toshiba.com>; Patrick Hery <
> Patrick.Hery at taec.toshiba.com>; John Geldman <
> John.Geldman at taec.toshiba.com>
> *Cc:* Bill Martin <bill.martin at samsung.com>
> *Subject:* Copy of revised chapter 6 showing approved changes
>
>
>
> Tom, John and Patrick,
>
>
>
> Here is a copy of SPL4 chapter 6 with the changes that were approved by
> the WG today.
>
> One caveat is that this need to be ratified at the plenary vote tomorrow.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Tim.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Tim Symons | Storage Architect*
>
> Microsemi Corporation
>
> 8555 Baxter Place, Burnaby, BC V5A 4V7. Canada
>
> Tel. 604 415 6000 <(604)%20415-6000>
>
> Tim.Symons at microsemi.com
>
>
>
> cid:image004.png at 01D1C17C.FB0C0730
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__intranet_&d=DwMGaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=TxI1DC4HavpWBdSmUqvdNvSwgOklhaW328zLt5AOpPM&m=PyBAfrcgTu45m__fAZc8au75RiTH6KEJejGVlSwQbCg&s=WAMQVZTxlDHJiP0vKXfQ6GqDDbC0QDPc2v4ACpfu_5E&e=>
>
> http://www.microsemi.com/
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.microsemi.com_&d=DwMGaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=TxI1DC4HavpWBdSmUqvdNvSwgOklhaW328zLt5AOpPM&m=PyBAfrcgTu45m__fAZc8au75RiTH6KEJejGVlSwQbCg&s=lK3A7PEepC6aEH7Aca11ntLZbbxVjbCjNglT_WNPOiw&e=>
>
>
>
>
>  *(See attached file: image001.png)*
>
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