From Elliott at hp.com  Wed Aug  1 07:33:39 2012
From: Elliott at hp.com (Elliott, Robert (Server Storage))
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 14:33:39 +0000
Subject: Discussion on 12-104 -- Synchronize Cache progress indicaction
 proposal
Message-ID: <mailman.209.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208010_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

I recommend using a mode page that is defined in SBC-n; don't litter SPC-n
with more peripheral device type specific content.  The Extended Device-Type
Specific mode page (16h) was designed for this purpose.
I would use these meanings:
Command handling during synchronize cache operations
00b = don't terminate commands; don't provide progress indication (legacy
mode)
01b = don't terminate media access commands (let them wait)
	   provide pollable sense data with NO SENSE/SYNCHRONIZE CACHE IN
PROGRESS (ASC=00h based)
10b = terminate media access commands with NOT READY/LOGICAL UNIT NOT READY,
SYNCHRONIZE CACHE IN PROGRESS (ASC=04h based)
11b = reserved
---
Rob Elliott    HP Server Storage
From: owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] On Behalf Of Gerry Houlder
Sent: Tuesday, 31 July, 2012 3:46 PM
To: T10 Reflector
Subject: Discussion on 12-104 -- Synchronize Cache progress indicaction
proposal
Hi,
Discussion of 12-104 rev. 3 (Add progress indication to SYNCHRONIZE CACHE
commands) at the July CAP meeting suggested adding a two bit mode page field
to control which response should be provided. The three choices are
unsupported, supported with queuing commands, and supported with aborting
commands. That discussion didn't recommend which mode page to use, however.
I think the Control Extension mode page is the most obvious choice (there
aren't any two bit fields available in the Control mode page unless we either
make the page larger or break into an obsolete field). Does everyone agree
with this choice? If you think a different mode page is more appropriate,
please reply to this email.


From gerry.houlder at seagate.com  Wed Aug  1 13:27:51 2012
From: gerry.houlder at seagate.com (Gerry Houlder)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:27:51 -0500
Subject: Aug. 21, 2:00pm CT Telecon announcement
Message-ID: <mailman.210.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208011_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

Hi,
Seagate will be hosting a Telecon on Tuesday Aug. 21, starting at 2:00 pm
and lasting for two hours.
Agenda will be to cover new revisions of two proposals that have not gotten
much CAP meeting time in the last few meetings:
12-104r4 Add progress indication for SYNCHRONIZE CACHE command
11-322r? Crash Dump
New rev of each proposal is expected to be posted to T10 web site several
days before the 8/21 telecon.
-------------------------------------------------------
Meeting information
-------------------------------------------------------
Topic: Proposals 12-104 and 11-322
Date: Tuesday, August 21, 2012
Time: 2:00 pm, Central Daylight Time (Chicago, GMT-05:00)
Meeting Number: 821 649 069
Meeting Password: T10T10T10
-------------------------------------------------------
To start or join the online meeting
-------------------------------------------------------
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JjOGJl&RT=MiM3
-------------------------------------------------------
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Your Cisco Unified MeetingPlace meeting ID: 821 649 069


From roweber at ieee.org  Fri Aug  3 21:08:15 2012
From: roweber at ieee.org (Ralph Weber)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 23:08:15 -0500
Subject: New SPC-4 Letter Ballot documents uploaded
Message-ID: <mailman.211.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Ralph Weber <roweber at ieee.org>
*
A new SPC-4 Letter Ballot document set has been uploaded.
As before, the right place to start is:
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-311r2.pdf
The new files will be the sources of conversation during the
Monday (8/6) conference call:
see: http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1207241.htm
Of particular note is the fact that one of the pollable sense
data comments (HP-115) has been reopened based on the e-mail
message reproduced below. This will be discussed Monday unless
the SSC WG representation is zero.
All the best,
.Ralph
=================
Hi Ralph,
On further review of clause 5.1.2.2 (Selecting pollable sense data to 
return), I don't think item 2) sub item 4) is needed. The NOT READY 
sense key cases described in SSC-x would fall under item 1) sub item 2) 
and the NO SENSE sense key cases would fall under item 2) sub item 5) if 
sub item 4) was not present. That was the configuration I remember from 
the discussion at CAP.
*
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From lohmeyer at t10.org  Sat Aug  4 23:02:22 2012
From: lohmeyer at t10.org (T10 Document Administrator)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 00:02:22 -0600
Subject: Recent T10 documents uploaded since 2012/07/29
Message-ID: <mailman.212.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* T10 Document Administrator <lohmeyer at t10.org>
*
Proposals
---------
Channel compliance points and lengths
(by: Mickey Felton)
T10/11-239r3   Uploaded: 2012/08/02   1077161 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=11-239r3.pdf
SAS-3 Transmitter device compliance
(by: Mathieu Gagnon)
T10/12-242r6   Uploaded: 2012/07/31   90919 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-242r6.pdf
SAS-3 TxRx connection compliance
(by: Mathieu Gagnon)
T10/12-243r6   Uploaded: 2012/07/31   238173 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-243r6.pdf
SAS-3 Receiver device compliance
(by: Mathieu Gagnon)
T10/12-244r6   Uploaded: 2012/07/31   320726 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-244r6.pdf
SSC-4: Informational Exceptions Control mode page
(by: Curtis Ballard)
T10/12-245r3   Uploaded: 2012/08/01   121695 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-245r3.pdf
SAS PHY: End-to-End Compliance Methodology and Specification
(by: Mathieu Gagnon)
T10/12-293r4   Uploaded: 2012/08/02   383404 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-293r4.pdf
SPC-4 Letter Ballot Comment Resolutions
(by: Ralph Weber)
T10/12-311r2   Uploaded: 2012/08/03   8287205 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-311r2.fdf
SPC-4 Letter Ballot Comment Resolutions
(by: Ralph Weber)
T10/12-311r2   Uploaded: 2012/08/03   1723486 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-311r2.pdf
SAS-3 Reference TxRx connection segments
(by: Mathieu Gagnon)
T10/12-312r3   Uploaded: 2012/07/31   174432 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-312r3.pdf
SPL-3: SMP Open Priority
(by: George Penokie)
T10/12-316r1   Uploaded: 2012/07/30   72661 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-316r1.pdf
Minutes of SAS Protocol Working Group - Jul 18, 2012
(by: Weber & Lohmeyer)
T10/12-326r1   Uploaded: 2012/07/31   34099 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-326r1.htm
Minutes of SAS Protocol Working Group - Jul 18, 2012
(by: Weber & Lohmeyer)
T10/12-326r1   Uploaded: 2012/07/31   97637 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-326r1.pdf
Letter Ballot on recommendation on DIS 14776-153 (SAS-2.1)
(by: John Lohmeyer)
T10/12-352r0   Uploaded: 2012/07/31   33784 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-352r0.pdf
Letter Ballot on recommendation on DIS 17760-101 (ATA8-ACS)
(by: John Lohmeyer)
T10/12-354r0   Uploaded: 2012/07/31   33889 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-354r0.pdf
Minutes of SAS PHY Working Group conference call August 2, 2012
(by: Alvin Cox)
T10/12-356r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/02   26584 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-356r0.pdf
Working Drafts
--------------
SCSI Primary Commands - 4 (SPC-4)
(Editor: Ralph Weber)
 Rev: 36d      Uploaded: 2012/08/03   4323593 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=f&f=spc4r36d.pdf
(Report generated on 2012/08/05 at 00:02:22)
*
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From scsi.bbs at lsi.com  Tue Aug  7 12:22:37 2012
From: scsi.bbs at lsi.com (T10 Voting Administrator)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 13:22:37 -0600
Subject: SOP: T10 Letter Ballot T10LBVOTE 12-357r0
Message-ID: <mailman.213.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* T10 Voting Administrator <scsi.bbs at lsi.com>
*
 2012/08/07 13:20:50
A T10 letter ballot (T10/12-357r0) has just been issued.
If you are a T10 voting member, you should have already received a
separate email with details of how to vote.
If you did not receive this separate email, it is likely that
a spam filter blocked its delivery. You can also find voting
instructions in the Members section of the T10 committee
web site.
The topic of this letter ballot is:
  Forwarding SOP to First Public Review
This ballot closes 2012/09/07 at 12:00 noon MT.
Please do NOT reply to this automated email.
*
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
* 'info t10' (no quotes) in the message body to majordomo at t10.org


From alvin.cox at seagate.com  Tue Aug  7 14:13:40 2012
From: alvin.cox at seagate.com (Alvin Cox)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 16:13:40 -0500
Subject: Reminder: SAS PHY teleconference, Aug 9, 2012, 10:00am CDT
Message-ID: <mailman.214.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208071_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

Next call August 9
Agenda:
General: What needs to be done to complete SAS-3 for letter ballot?
Connector related
New items?
Electrical
Channel compliance points and lengths
(11-239r3<http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=11-239r3.pdf&gt;)
[Felton]
EMI discussions in which Re-copy/post of Mike Jenkins work
(12-281r1<http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-281r1.pdf&gt;)
[Felton]
New items
Toll Free Dial in Number: (877)810-9442
International Access/Caller Paid Dial In Number: (636)651-3190
PARTICIPANT CODE: 3243413
Webex information: **
Topic: SAS-3
Date: Every Thursday, from Thursday, July 26, 2012 to Thursday, September
6, 2012
Time: 10:00 am, Central Daylight Time (Chicago, GMT-05:00)
Meeting Number: 827 988 093
Meeting Password: sas12gbps
-------------------------------------------------------
To join the online meeting (Now from mobile devices!)
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-- 
Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Cell 405-206-4809
Office 405-392-3738
E-Mail	alvin.cox at seagate.com


From mickey.felton at emc.com  Wed Aug  8 12:20:11 2012
From: mickey.felton at emc.com (Felton, Mickey)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 15:20:11 -0400
Subject: Reminder Book the hotel.
Message-ID: <mailman.215.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208080_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

Dear September T10 Guests: Reminder we are obligated to have everyone booked
by the end of this week Aug 10th for the hotel to start to release rooms for
other types of bookings. It appears we have around 30 people who have already
reserved, and took most if not all the King rooms at this point. There are
Queen rooms available but they are handicap accessible if a bigger bed over
double is required. Thank you for taking the time to do book this week. Look
forward to seeing everyone in Boston in a few weeks.
For new T10 guests please read the INCITS Chair's message on staying at the
recommended hotel:
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=09-341r0.pdf


From lohmeyer at t10.org  Sat Aug 11 23:01:27 2012
From: lohmeyer at t10.org (T10 Document Administrator)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 00:01:27 -0600
Subject: Recent T10 documents uploaded since 2012/08/05
Message-ID: <mailman.216.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* T10 Document Administrator <lohmeyer at t10.org>
*
Proposals
---------
Channel compliance points and lengths
(by: Mickey Felton)
T10/11-239r4   Uploaded: 2012/08/09   1083129 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=11-239r4.pdf
SPC-4 SBC-3 Add progress indication description to SYNCHRONIZE CACHE
commands
(by: Gerald Houlder)
T10/12-104r4   Uploaded: 2012/08/10   65229 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-104r4.pdf
Results of Letter Ballot on recommendation on DIS 14776-153 (SAS-2.1)
(by: John Lohmeyer)
T10/12-353r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/07   5926 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-353r0.pdf
Results of Letter Ballot on recommendation on DIS 14776-153 (SAS-2.1)
(by: John Lohmeyer)
T10/12-353r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/07   11652 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-353r0.txt
Results of Letter Ballot on recommendation on DIS 17760-101 (ATA8-ACS)
(by: John Lohmeyer)
T10/12-355r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/07   3149 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-355r0.pdf
Results of Letter Ballot on recommendation on DIS 17760-101 (ATA8-ACS)
(by: John Lohmeyer)
T10/12-355r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/07   4848 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-355r0.txt
Letter Ballot on forwarding SOP to First Public Review
(by: John Lohmeyer)
T10/12-357r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/07   34521 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-357r0.pdf
Minutes of SAS PHY Working Group conference call August 9, 2012
(by: Alvin Cox)
T10/12-360r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/09   23165 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-360r0.pdf
SAS-3 open items list
(by: Alvin Cox)
T10/12-361r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/09   58429 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-361r0.pdf
SPC-5 Obsolete Printer Devices
(by: Paul Suhler)
T10/12-362r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/10   25296 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-362r0.pdf
Working Drafts
--------------
SCSI over PCIe(r) architecture (SOP)
(Editor: Curtis Stevens)
 Rev: 04       Uploaded: 2012/08/07   2088036 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=f&f=sop-r04.pdf
(Report generated on 2012/08/12 at 00:01:27)
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From roweber at ieee.org  Sun Aug 12 17:22:47 2012
From: roweber at ieee.org (Ralph Weber)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 19:22:47 -0500
Subject: New rev posted for SAM-5 proposal to better organize LUNs
Message-ID: <mailman.217.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Ralph Weber <roweber at ieee.org>
*
I have uploaded a new revision of the SAM-5 UML etc. changes
that are intended to allow LUN value to be organized for easier
processing and lower overhead (e.g., from unit attentions).
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-247r2.pdf
The r2 posting is about as different from the r1 as r1 was
|from r0, i.e., v-e-e-e-r-y different. Plan on a noticeable
amount of need reading to be done.
All the best,
.Ralph
*
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From alvin.cox at seagate.com  Tue Aug 14 21:37:01 2012
From: alvin.cox at seagate.com (Alvin Cox)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 23:37:01 -0500
Subject: Reminder: SAS PHY teleconference, Aug 16, 2012, 10:00am CDT
Message-ID: <mailman.218.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208140_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

Next call August 16, 2012, 10:00 am CDT.
Agenda:
General SAS-3 items to resolve:
a)    Does the CT connection need AC coupling on the transmitter?
b)    Does the zero length test load need to be updated for 12Gbps.
Connector related
New items
Electrical
Channel compliance points and lengths
(11-239r4<http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=11-239r4.pdf&gt;)
[Felton]
EMI discussions in which Re-copy/post of Mike Jenkins work
(12-281r1<http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-281r1.pdf&gt;)
[Felton]
New items
 Toll Free Dial in Number: (877)810-9442
International Access/Caller Paid Dial In Number: (636)651-3190
PARTICIPANT CODE: 3243413
Webex information: **
Topic: SAS-3
Date: Every Thursday, from Thursday, July 26, 2012 to Thursday, September
6, 2012
Time: 10:00 am, Central Daylight Time (Chicago, GMT-05:00)
Meeting Number: 827 988 093
Meeting Password: sas12gbps
-------------------------------------------------------
To join the online meeting (Now from mobile devices!)
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to
https://seagate.webex.com/seagate/j.php?ED=158650437&UID=0&PW=NODQzMjNhYTdm&R
T=MiM3
2. If requested, enter your name and email address.
3. If a password is required, enter the meeting password: sas12gbps
4. Click "Join".
5. Follow the instructions that appear on your screen.
To view in other time zones or languages, please click the link:
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RT=MiM3
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For assistance
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2. On the left navigation bar, click "Support".
To update this meeting to your calendar program (for example Microsoft
Outlook), click this link:
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ST=1&SHA2=pEI2tL0j5oE58s9ytOQWHuV98SACdVZgiFnrG-CNDds=&RT=MiM3
WebEx will automatically setup Meeting Manager for Windows the first time
you join a meeting. To save time, you can setup prior to the meeting by
clicking this link:
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The playback of UCF (Universal Communications Format) rich media files
requires appropriate players. To view this type of rich media files in the
meeting, please check whether you have the players installed on your
computer by going to https://seagate.webex.com/seagate/systemdiagnosis.php.
http://www.webex.com
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows audio
and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed during the
session to be recorded. By joining this session, you automatically consent
to such recordings. If you do not consent to the recording, discuss your
concerns with the meeting host prior to the start of the recording or do
not join the session. Please note that any such recordings may be subject
to discovery in the event of litigation.
-- 
Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Cell 405-206-4809
Office 405-392-3738
E-Mail	alvin.cox at seagate.com


From eric at elegantinvention.com  Wed Aug 15 00:40:07 2012
From: eric at elegantinvention.com (Eric Agan)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 03:40:07 -0400
Subject: When should Mode parameter header (not) be returned?
Message-ID: <mailman.219.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Eric Agan <eric at elegantinvention.com>
*
Hi,
Should Mode Sense(6) and Mode Sense(10) return the appropriate Mode
parameter header even if an unsupported Page or Subpage was requested?
SPC-3 states:
"An application client may request any one or all of the supported
mode pages from the device server. If an application
client issues a MODE SENSE command with a page code or subpage code
value not implemented by the
logical unit, the command shall be terminated with CHECK CONDITION
status, with the sense key set to ILLEGAL
REQUEST, and the additional sense code set to INVALID FIELD IN CDB."
...but doesn't seem to clarify whether the header should be returned
anyway or not.
What about other errors such as requesting Changeable Values when the
logic unit doesn't implement them? SPC-3 dictates the same response as
above for that scenario.
My assumption has been to always return the header.
Thanks,
Eric Agan
Elegant Invention
*
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From gerry.houlder at seagate.com  Wed Aug 15 06:29:04 2012
From: gerry.houlder at seagate.com (Gerry Houlder)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 08:29:04 -0500
Subject: When should Mode parameter header (not) be returned?
Message-ID: <mailman.220.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208151_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

When the target returns CHECK CONDITION status to complain about something
illegal in the CDB, then no data is returned, only the status information.
With SAS 9which has autosense feature) the sense data is returned as part
of the status frame.
On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 2:40 AM, Eric Agan <eric at elegantinvention.com>wrote:
> * From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
> * Eric Agan <eric at elegantinvention.com>
> *
> Hi,
>
> Should Mode Sense(6) and Mode Sense(10) return the appropriate Mode
> parameter header even if an unsupported Page or Subpage was requested?
> SPC-3 states:
>
> "An application client may request any one or all of the supported
> mode pages from the device server. If an application
> client issues a MODE SENSE command with a page code or subpage code
> value not implemented by the
> logical unit, the command shall be terminated with CHECK CONDITION
> status, with the sense key set to ILLEGAL
> REQUEST, and the additional sense code set to INVALID FIELD IN CDB."
>
> ...but doesn't seem to clarify whether the header should be returned
> anyway or not.
>
> What about other errors such as requesting Changeable Values when the
> logic unit doesn't implement them? SPC-3 dictates the same response as
> above for that scenario.
> My assumption has been to always return the header.
>
> Thanks,
> Eric Agan
> Elegant Invention
> *
> * For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
> * 'info t10' (no quotes) in the message body to majordomo at t10.org
>


From alvin.cox at seagate.com  Thu Aug 16 09:32:49 2012
From: alvin.cox at seagate.com (Alvin Cox)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:32:49 -0500
Subject: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
Message-ID: <mailman.221.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208160_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

This proposal changes the functions of P1, P2, and P3 from 3.3V. The signal
assignment of these pins have been changed by other standards that
intermate with SAS connectors. Please review this proposal. The proposal
may be downloaded at:
  http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-363r0.pdf
This proposal was introduced on the 8/16/12 SAS PHY call and will be the
first discussion item on the 8/23/12 SAS PHY call.
*Abstract *
This proposal documents the changes associated with the addition of POWER
DISABLE to SAS-3. This function provides a means for the SAS target device
with a SAS Drive plug connector or SAS MultiLink Drive plug connector to
remove D.C. power (+5V and +12V) from the drive circuitry when the power
disable signal is driven high by the system. The POWER DISABLE signal is
specified on P3. If POWER DISABLE is not supported, P3 shall be not
connected. P1 and P2 are shorted together to provide the same connection as
on SAS drives compliant with versions of the SAS standard previous to
SAS-3, and to be consistent with the recommended implementation specified
by SATA since P1 and P2 have been retired and P3 may implement DEVSLP. The
functional polarity of POWER DISABLE is consistent with DEVSLP if the
DEVSLP function is enabled.
 Extensive research was done prior to drafting this proposal with respect
to system implementation on P1, P2, and P3. No instances were found where
systems provided 3.3V power to these pins. Maintaining the connection of P1
to P2 provided the widest support of legacy implementations that used the
pins for functionality not specified by the SAS standard.
-- 
Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Cell 405-206-4809
Office 405-392-3738
E-Mail	alvin.cox at seagate.com


From mickey.felton at emc.com  Thu Aug 16 14:39:01 2012
From: mickey.felton at emc.com (Felton, Mickey)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:39:01 -0400
Subject: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
Message-ID: <mailman.222.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208161_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

Alvin-
EMC agrees with the principal behind this proposal, but a few questions:
How long after stable 12V / 5V is the circuitry ready? Could it be asserted
while power is ramping up?
Does the input signal on the drive have any special edge or level
requirements?
Thanks!
-Mick
From: owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] On Behalf Of Alvin Cox
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:33 PM
To: T10 Reflector
Subject: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
This proposal changes the functions of P1, P2, and P3 from 3.3V. The signal
assignment of these pins have been changed by other standards that intermate
with SAS connectors. Please review this proposal. The proposal may be
downloaded at:
  http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-363r0.pdf
This proposal was introduced on the 8/16/12 SAS PHY call and will be the
first discussion item on the 8/23/12 SAS PHY call.
Abstract
This proposal documents the changes associated with the addition of POWER
DISABLE to SAS-3. This function provides a means for the SAS target device
with a SAS Drive plug connector or SAS MultiLink Drive plug connector to
remove D.C. power (+5V and +12V) from the drive circuitry when the power
disable signal is driven high by the system. The POWER DISABLE signal is
specified on P3. If POWER DISABLE is not supported, P3 shall be not
connected. P1 and P2 are shorted together to provide the same connection as
on SAS drives compliant with versions of the SAS standard previous to SAS-3,
and to be consistent with the recommended implementation specified by SATA
since P1 and P2 have been retired and P3 may implement DEVSLP. The functional
polarity of POWER DISABLE is consistent with DEVSLP if the DEVSLP function is
enabled.
 Extensive research was done prior to drafting this proposal with respect to
system implementation on P1, P2, and P3. No instances were found where
systems provided 3.3V power to these pins. Maintaining the connection of P1
to P2 provided the widest support of legacy implementations that used the
pins for functionality not specified by the SAS standard.
--
Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Cell 405-206-4809
Office 405-392-3738
E-Mail	alvin.cox at seagate.com


From Chuck.Gibson at sandisk.com  Thu Aug 16 15:16:10 2012
From: Chuck.Gibson at sandisk.com (Chuck Gibson)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 22:16:10 +0000
Subject: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
Message-ID: <mailman.223.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208162_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

Is there an external pull-down on the POWER DISABLE line, or does the SAS
target device need to provide one?
Table 69 specifies the maximum value for Asserted current (power disabled) as
5.0uA, which doesn't allow for much of a pull-down.
What would be the behavior if a SAS target device supporting POWER DISABLE is
plugged into a legacy backplane?
Regards,
Chuck Gibson
SanDisk
From: owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] On Behalf Of Alvin Cox
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:33 AM
To: T10 Reflector
Subject: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
This proposal changes the functions of P1, P2, and P3 from 3.3V. The signal
assignment of these pins have been changed by other standards that intermate
with SAS connectors. Please review this proposal. The proposal may be
downloaded at:
  http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-363r0.pdf
This proposal was introduced on the 8/16/12 SAS PHY call and will be the
first discussion item on the 8/23/12 SAS PHY call.
Abstract
This proposal documents the changes associated with the addition of POWER
DISABLE to SAS-3. This function provides a means for the SAS target device
with a SAS Drive plug connector or SAS MultiLink Drive plug connector to
remove D.C. power (+5V and +12V) from the drive circuitry when the power
disable signal is driven high by the system. The POWER DISABLE signal is
specified on P3. If POWER DISABLE is not supported, P3 shall be not
connected. P1 and P2 are shorted together to provide the same connection as
on SAS drives compliant with versions of the SAS standard previous to SAS-3,
and to be consistent with the recommended implementation specified by SATA
since P1 and P2 have been retired and P3 may implement DEVSLP. The functional
polarity of POWER DISABLE is consistent with DEVSLP if the DEVSLP function is
enabled.
 Extensive research was done prior to drafting this proposal with respect to
system implementation on P1, P2, and P3. No instances were found where
systems provided 3.3V power to these pins. Maintaining the connection of P1
to P2 provided the widest support of legacy implementations that used the
pins for functionality not specified by the SAS standard.
--
Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Cell 405-206-4809
Office 405-392-3738
E-Mail	alvin.cox at seagate.com
________________________________
PLEASE NOTE: The information contained in this electronic mail message is
intended only for the use of the designated recipient(s) named above. If the
reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that you have received this message in error and that any review,
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prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify
the sender by telephone or e-mail (as shown above) immediately and destroy
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From Brad.Besmer at lsi.com  Thu Aug 16 15:16:53 2012
From: Brad.Besmer at lsi.com (Besmer, Brad)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 16:16:53 -0600
Subject: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
Message-ID: <mailman.224.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208163_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

Alvin,
Few discussion items:
1 - There is no associated support in SPL-2 for this (ie. Identify /
Discover). How does the attached entity know if the target device supports
this behavior or not?
2 -What happens to the link-state when the POWER DISABLE signal is asserted?
3 - How does attached device know if the device has been hot-swapped with a
different device?
4 - What other system-level impacts does this have?
Brad
From: owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] On Behalf Of Felton,
Mickey
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 3:39 PM
To: Alvin Cox; T10 Reflector
Subject: RE: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
Alvin-
EMC agrees with the principal behind this proposal, but a few questions:
How long after stable 12V / 5V is the circuitry ready? Could it be asserted
while power is ramping up?
Does the input signal on the drive have any special edge or level
requirements?
Thanks!
-Mick
From: owner-t10 at t10.org<mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org> [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org]
On Behalf Of Alvin Cox
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:33 PM
To: T10 Reflector
Subject: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
This proposal changes the functions of P1, P2, and P3 from 3.3V. The signal
assignment of these pins have been changed by other standards that intermate
with SAS connectors. Please review this proposal. The proposal may be
downloaded at:
  http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-363r0.pdf
This proposal was introduced on the 8/16/12 SAS PHY call and will be the
first discussion item on the 8/23/12 SAS PHY call.
Abstract
This proposal documents the changes associated with the addition of POWER
DISABLE to SAS-3. This function provides a means for the SAS target device
with a SAS Drive plug connector or SAS MultiLink Drive plug connector to
remove D.C. power (+5V and +12V) from the drive circuitry when the power
disable signal is driven high by the system. The POWER DISABLE signal is
specified on P3. If POWER DISABLE is not supported, P3 shall be not
connected. P1 and P2 are shorted together to provide the same connection as
on SAS drives compliant with versions of the SAS standard previous to SAS-3,
and to be consistent with the recommended implementation specified by SATA
since P1 and P2 have been retired and P3 may implement DEVSLP. The functional
polarity of POWER DISABLE is consistent with DEVSLP if the DEVSLP function is
enabled.
 Extensive research was done prior to drafting this proposal with respect to
system implementation on P1, P2, and P3. No instances were found where
systems provided 3.3V power to these pins. Maintaining the connection of P1
to P2 provided the widest support of legacy implementations that used the
pins for functionality not specified by the SAS standard.
--
Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Cell 405-206-4809
Office 405-392-3738
E-Mail	alvin.cox at seagate.com


From tc.mcnally at newisys.com  Fri Aug 17 05:51:16 2012
From: tc.mcnally at newisys.com (T. C. McNally)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 06:51:16 -0600
Subject: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
Message-ID: <mailman.225.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208170_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

All,
Is the pin choice for POWER DISABLE negotiable?  I would ask for this
function to be on P1.
Thanks,
T. C. Mc Nally
System Engineer
719-884-8733
On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Besmer, Brad <Brad.Besmer at lsi.com> wrote:
> Alvin,****
>
> ** **
>
> Few discussion items:****
>
> ** **
>
> 1 - There is no associated support in SPL-2 for this (ie. Identify /
> Discover). How does the attached entity know if the target device supports
> this behavior or not?****
>
> ** **
>
> 2 ???What happens to the link-state when the POWER DISABLE signal is
> asserted?****
>
> ** **
>
> 3 ??? How does attached device know if the device has been hot-swapped with
> a different device?****
>
> ** **
>
> 4 ??? What other system-level impacts does this have?****
>
> ** **
>
> Brad****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] *On Behalf Of *Felton,
> Mickey
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 3:39 PM
> *To:* Alvin Cox; T10 Reflector
> *Subject:* RE: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE****
>
> ** **
>
> Alvin- ****
>
> EMC agrees with the principal behind this proposal, but a few questions:**
> **
>
> ** **
>
> How long after stable 12V / 5V is the circuitry ready? Could it be
> asserted while power is ramping up? ****
>
> Does the input signal on the drive have any special edge or level
> requirements?****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks!****
>
> -Mick****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org <owner-t10 at t10.org>]
*On
> Behalf Of *Alvin Cox
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:33 PM
> *To:* T10 Reflector
> *Subject:* Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE****
>
> ** **
>
> This proposal changes the functions of P1, P2, and P3 from 3.3V. The
> signal assignment of these pins have been changed by other standards that
> intermate with SAS connectors. Please review this proposal. The proposal
> may be downloaded at:
>   http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-363r0.pdf
>
> This proposal was introduced on the 8/16/12 SAS PHY call and will be the
> first discussion item on the 8/23/12 SAS PHY call.****
>
> *Abstract *****
>
> This proposal documents the changes associated with the addition of POWER
> DISABLE to SAS-3. This function provides a means for the SAS target device
> with a SAS Drive plug connector or SAS MultiLink Drive plug connector to
> remove D.C. power (+5V and +12V) from the drive circuitry when the power
> disable signal is driven high by the system. The POWER DISABLE signal is
> specified on P3. If POWER DISABLE is not supported, P3 shall be not
> connected. P1 and P2 are shorted together to provide the same connection as
> on SAS drives compliant with versions of the SAS standard previous to
> SAS-3, and to be consistent with the recommended implementation specified
> by SATA since P1 and P2 have been retired and P3 may implement DEVSLP. The
> functional polarity of POWER DISABLE is consistent with DEVSLP if the
> DEVSLP function is enabled.****
>
>  Extensive research was done prior to drafting this proposal with respect
> to system implementation on P1, P2, and P3. No instances were found where
> systems provided 3.3V power to these pins. Maintaining the connection of P1
> to P2 provided the widest support of legacy implementations that used the
> pins for functionality not specified by the SAS standard.****
>
>
>
> --
> Alvin Cox
> Seagate Technology, LLC
> Cell 405-206-4809
> Office 405-392-3738
> E-Mail  alvin.cox at seagate.com ****
>
CONFIDENTIALITY
This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by
the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or
confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this
e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly
prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail message in error, please
immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any
copies of this email and any prints thereof.
ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT
INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING.  Notwithstanding the Uniform
Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar
substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary
hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are
not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and
are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or
any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity.


From alvin.cox at seagate.com  Fri Aug 17 07:48:03 2012
From: alvin.cox at seagate.com (Alvin Cox)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 09:48:03 -0500
Subject: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
Message-ID: <mailman.226.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208171_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

Answers are coming. i have compiled all of the responses so far and will
provide responses. Very good questions.
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Felton, Mickey <mickey.felton at emc.com>wrote:
> Can you provide a reason?****
>
> ** **
>
> I believe the reasoning from Alvin on 3 was because 1 and 2 were always
> connected together on ?other systems?..****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* T. C. McNally [mailto:tc.mcnally at newisys.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, August 17, 2012 8:51 AM
> *To:* Besmer, Brad
> *Cc:* Felton, Mickey; Alvin Cox; T10 Reflector
> *Subject:* Re: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE****
>
> ** **
>
> All,
>
> Is the pin choice for POWER DISABLE negotiable?  I would ask for this
> function to be on P1.
>
> ****
>
> Thanks,
>
> T. C. Mc Nally
> System Engineer
> 719-884-8733****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Besmer, Brad <Brad.Besmer at lsi.com> wrote:
> ****
>
> Alvin,****
>
>  ****
>
> Few discussion items:****
>
>  ****
>
> 1 - There is no associated support in SPL-2 for this (ie. Identify /
> Discover). How does the attached entity know if the target device supports
> this behavior or not?****
>
>  ****
>
> 2 ?What happens to the link-state when the POWER DISABLE signal is
> asserted?****
>
>  ****
>
> 3 ? How does attached device know if the device has been hot-swapped with
> a different device?****
>
>  ****
>
> 4 ? What other system-level impacts does this have?****
>
>  ****
>
> Brad****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] *On Behalf Of *Felton,
> Mickey
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 3:39 PM
> *To:* Alvin Cox; T10 Reflector
> *Subject:* RE: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE****
>
>  ****
>
> Alvin- ****
>
> EMC agrees with the principal behind this proposal, but a few questions:**
> **
>
>  ****
>
> How long after stable 12V / 5V is the circuitry ready? Could it be
> asserted while power is ramping up? ****
>
> Does the input signal on the drive have any special edge or level
> requirements?****
>
>  ****
>
> Thanks!****
>
> -Mick****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org <owner-t10 at t10.org>]
*On
> Behalf Of *Alvin Cox
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:33 PM
> *To:* T10 Reflector
> *Subject:* Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE****
>
>  ****
>
> This proposal changes the functions of P1, P2, and P3 from 3.3V. The
> signal assignment of these pins have been changed by other standards that
> intermate with SAS connectors. Please review this proposal. The proposal
> may be downloaded at:
>   http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-363r0.pdf
>
> This proposal was introduced on the 8/16/12 SAS PHY call and will be the
> first discussion item on the 8/23/12 SAS PHY call.****
>
> *Abstract *****
>
> This proposal documents the changes associated with the addition of POWER
> DISABLE to SAS-3. This function provides a means for the SAS target device
> with a SAS Drive plug connector or SAS MultiLink Drive plug connector to
> remove D.C. power (+5V and +12V) from the drive circuitry when the power
> disable signal is driven high by the system. The POWER DISABLE signal is
> specified on P3. If POWER DISABLE is not supported, P3 shall be not
> connected. P1 and P2 are shorted together to provide the same connection as
> on SAS drives compliant with versions of the SAS standard previous to
> SAS-3, and to be consistent with the recommended implementation specified
> by SATA since P1 and P2 have been retired and P3 may implement DEVSLP. The
> functional polarity of POWER DISABLE is consistent with DEVSLP if the
> DEVSLP function is enabled.****
>
>  Extensive research was done prior to drafting this proposal with respect
> to system implementation on P1, P2, and P3. No instances were found where
> systems provided 3.3V power to these pins. Maintaining the connection of P1
> to P2 provided the widest support of legacy implementations that used the
> pins for functionality not specified by the SAS standard.****
>
>
>
> --
> Alvin Cox
> Seagate Technology, LLC
> Cell 405-206-4809
> Office 405-392-3738
> E-Mail  alvin.cox at seagate.com ****
>
> ** **
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY****
>
> This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use
by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or
confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this
e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly
prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail message in error, please
immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any
copies of this email and any prints thereof.****
>
> ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT
INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING.  Notwithstanding the Uniform
Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar
substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary
hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are
not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and
are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or
any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity.****
>
> ** **
>
>
-- 
Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Cell 405-206-4809
Office 405-392-3738
E-Mail	alvin.cox at seagate.com


From tc.mcnally at newisys.com  Fri Aug 17 07:52:34 2012
From: tc.mcnally at newisys.com (T. C. McNally)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:52:34 -0600
Subject: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
Message-ID: <mailman.227.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208172_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

The main reason is we, Newisys, currently use P1 for this function.
Thanks,
T. C. Mc Nally
System Engineer
719-884-8733
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Felton, Mickey <mickey.felton at emc.com>wrote:
> Can you provide a reason?****
>
> ** **
>
> I believe the reasoning from Alvin on 3 was because 1 and 2 were always
> connected together on ???other systems???..****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* T. C. McNally [mailto:tc.mcnally at newisys.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, August 17, 2012 8:51 AM
> *To:* Besmer, Brad
> *Cc:* Felton, Mickey; Alvin Cox; T10 Reflector
> *Subject:* Re: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE****
>
> ** **
>
> All,
>
> Is the pin choice for POWER DISABLE negotiable?  I would ask for this
> function to be on P1.
>
> ****
>
> Thanks,
>
> T. C. Mc Nally
> System Engineer
> 719-884-8733****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Besmer, Brad <Brad.Besmer at lsi.com> wrote:
> ****
>
> Alvin,****
>
>  ****
>
> Few discussion items:****
>
>  ****
>
> 1 - There is no associated support in SPL-2 for this (ie. Identify /
> Discover). How does the attached entity know if the target device supports
> this behavior or not?****
>
>  ****
>
> 2 ???What happens to the link-state when the POWER DISABLE signal is
> asserted?****
>
>  ****
>
> 3 ??? How does attached device know if the device has been hot-swapped with
> a different device?****
>
>  ****
>
> 4 ??? What other system-level impacts does this have?****
>
>  ****
>
> Brad****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] *On Behalf Of *Felton,
> Mickey
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 3:39 PM
> *To:* Alvin Cox; T10 Reflector
> *Subject:* RE: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE****
>
>  ****
>
> Alvin- ****
>
> EMC agrees with the principal behind this proposal, but a few questions:**
> **
>
>  ****
>
> How long after stable 12V / 5V is the circuitry ready? Could it be
> asserted while power is ramping up? ****
>
> Does the input signal on the drive have any special edge or level
> requirements?****
>
>  ****
>
> Thanks!****
>
> -Mick****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org <owner-t10 at t10.org>]
*On
> Behalf Of *Alvin Cox
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:33 PM
> *To:* T10 Reflector
> *Subject:* Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE****
>
>  ****
>
> This proposal changes the functions of P1, P2, and P3 from 3.3V. The
> signal assignment of these pins have been changed by other standards that
> intermate with SAS connectors. Please review this proposal. The proposal
> may be downloaded at:
>   http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-363r0.pdf
>
> This proposal was introduced on the 8/16/12 SAS PHY call and will be the
> first discussion item on the 8/23/12 SAS PHY call.****
>
> *Abstract *****
>
> This proposal documents the changes associated with the addition of POWER
> DISABLE to SAS-3. This function provides a means for the SAS target device
> with a SAS Drive plug connector or SAS MultiLink Drive plug connector to
> remove D.C. power (+5V and +12V) from the drive circuitry when the power
> disable signal is driven high by the system. The POWER DISABLE signal is
> specified on P3. If POWER DISABLE is not supported, P3 shall be not
> connected. P1 and P2 are shorted together to provide the same connection as
> on SAS drives compliant with versions of the SAS standard previous to
> SAS-3, and to be consistent with the recommended implementation specified
> by SATA since P1 and P2 have been retired and P3 may implement DEVSLP. The
> functional polarity of POWER DISABLE is consistent with DEVSLP if the
> DEVSLP function is enabled.****
>
>  Extensive research was done prior to drafting this proposal with respect
> to system implementation on P1, P2, and P3. No instances were found where
> systems provided 3.3V power to these pins. Maintaining the connection of P1
> to P2 provided the widest support of legacy implementations that used the
> pins for functionality not specified by the SAS standard.****
>
>
>
> --
> Alvin Cox
> Seagate Technology, LLC
> Cell 405-206-4809
> Office 405-392-3738
> E-Mail  alvin.cox at seagate.com ****
>
> ** **
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY****
>
> This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use
by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or
confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this
e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly
prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail message in error, please
immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any
copies of this email and any prints thereof.****
>
> ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT
INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING.  Notwithstanding the Uniform
Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar
substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary
hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are
not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and
are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or
any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity.****
>
> ** **
>
>
CONFIDENTIALITY
This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by
the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or
confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this
e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly
prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail message in error, please
immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any
copies of this email and any prints thereof.
ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT
INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING.  Notwithstanding the Uniform
Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar
substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary
hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are
not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and
are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or
any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity.


From mickey.felton at emc.com  Fri Aug 17 07:44:00 2012
From: mickey.felton at emc.com (Felton, Mickey)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 10:44:00 -0400
Subject: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
Message-ID: <mailman.228.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208173_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

Can you provide a reason?
I believe the reasoning from Alvin on 3 was because 1 and 2 were always
connected together on ???other systems???..
From: T. C. McNally [mailto:tc.mcnally at newisys.com]
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 8:51 AM
To: Besmer, Brad
Cc: Felton, Mickey; Alvin Cox; T10 Reflector
Subject: Re: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
All,
Is the pin choice for POWER DISABLE negotiable?  I would ask for this
function to be on P1.
Thanks,
T. C. Mc Nally
System Engineer
719-884-8733
On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Besmer, Brad
<Brad.Besmer at lsi.com> wrote:
Alvin,
Few discussion items:
1 - There is no associated support in SPL-2 for this (ie. Identify /
Discover). How does the attached entity know if the target device supports
this behavior or not?
2 ???What happens to the link-state when the POWER DISABLE signal is
asserted?
3 ??? How does attached device know if the device has been hot-swapped with a
different device?
4 ??? What other system-level impacts does this have?
Brad
From: owner-t10 at t10.org<mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org>
[mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org<mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org>] On Behalf Of Felton,
Mickey
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 3:39 PM
To: Alvin Cox; T10 Reflector
Subject: RE: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
Alvin-
EMC agrees with the principal behind this proposal, but a few questions:
How long after stable 12V / 5V is the circuitry ready? Could it be asserted
while power is ramping up?
Does the input signal on the drive have any special edge or level
requirements?
Thanks!
-Mick
From: owner-t10 at t10.org<mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org> [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org]
On Behalf Of Alvin Cox
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:33 PM
To: T10 Reflector
Subject: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
This proposal changes the functions of P1, P2, and P3 from 3.3V. The signal
assignment of these pins have been changed by other standards that intermate
with SAS connectors. Please review this proposal. The proposal may be
downloaded at:
  http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-363r0.pdf
This proposal was introduced on the 8/16/12 SAS PHY call and will be the
first discussion item on the 8/23/12 SAS PHY call.
Abstract
This proposal documents the changes associated with the addition of POWER
DISABLE to SAS-3. This function provides a means for the SAS target device
with a SAS Drive plug connector or SAS MultiLink Drive plug connector to
remove D.C. power (+5V and +12V) from the drive circuitry when the power
disable signal is driven high by the system. The POWER DISABLE signal is
specified on P3. If POWER DISABLE is not supported, P3 shall be not
connected. P1 and P2 are shorted together to provide the same connection as
on SAS drives compliant with versions of the SAS standard previous to SAS-3,
and to be consistent with the recommended implementation specified by SATA
since P1 and P2 have been retired and P3 may implement DEVSLP. The functional
polarity of POWER DISABLE is consistent with DEVSLP if the DEVSLP function is
enabled.
 Extensive research was done prior to drafting this proposal with respect to
system implementation on P1, P2, and P3. No instances were found where
systems provided 3.3V power to these pins. Maintaining the connection of P1
to P2 provided the widest support of legacy implementations that used the
pins for functionality not specified by the SAS standard.
--
Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Cell 405-206-4809<tel:405-206-4809>
Office 405-392-3738<tel:405-392-3738>
E-Mail	alvin.cox at seagate.com
CONFIDENTIALITY
This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by
the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or
confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this
e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly
prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail message in error, please
immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any
copies of this email and any prints thereof.
ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT
INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING.  Notwithstanding the Uniform
Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar
substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary
hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are
not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and
are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or
any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity.


From gerry.houlder at seagate.com  Fri Aug 17 12:55:59 2012
From: gerry.houlder at seagate.com (Gerry Houlder)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 14:55:59 -0500
Subject: 12-104 rev. 4 has been posted
Message-ID: <mailman.229.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208174_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

12-104r4 (Add progress indication definition for SYNCHRONIZE CACHE command)
has been posted. This proposal will be discussed during the T10 telecon
scheduled for Aug. 21, 2:00 pm CDT. Telecon details are available on the
T10.org web site. That telecon is also scheduled to discuss a new revision
of the crash dump proposal (not yet posted).


From alvin.cox at seagate.com  Fri Aug 17 14:41:42 2012
From: alvin.cox at seagate.com (Alvin Cox)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 16:41:42 -0500
Subject: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
Message-ID: <mailman.230.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208175_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

*T10 P3 repurposing questions and answers:*
1.     Felton, Mickey mickey.felton at emc.com
Q: How long after stable 12V / 5V is the circuitry ready?
A: This is target device implementation specific. If the signal was
asserted when power is applied, the target device would not power up.
Q: Could it be asserted while power is ramping up?
A: Yes.
Q: Does the input signal on the drive have any special edge or level
requirements?
A: Level requirements are defined in the table. Target devices should
implement some sort of hysteresis.
2.     Chuck Gibson Chuck.Gibson at sandisk.com
Q: Is there an external pull-down on the POWER DISABLE line, or does the
SAS target device need to provide one?
A: The SAS target device needs to provide one if required.
Q: Table 69 specifies the maximum value for Asserted current (power
disabled) as 5.0 ?A, which doesn?t allow for much of a pull-down.
A: The purpose was to minimize the load on the system. This value is
negotiable. One consideration is to maintain compatibility with the
requirements for SATA DEVSLP, which has a 10.0 ?A maximum.
Q: What would be the behavior if a SAS target device supporting POWER
DISABLE is plugged into a legacy backplane?
A: Normal operation unless the legacy backplane provides 3.3V on P3. If
3.3V is provided by the system on P3, the target device will not power up.
3.     Besmer, Brad Brad.Besmer at lsi.com
Q: There is no associated support in SPL-2 for this (ie. Identify /
Discover). How does the attached entity know if the target device supports
this behavior or not?
 A: TBD. We want to get approval of the repurposing prior to determining
the best means of support notification.
Q: What happens to the link-state when the POWER DISABLE signal is asserted?
 A: The device completely shuts down since the result is the same as
turning off D.C. power to the device.
Q: How does attached device know if the device has been hot-swapped with a
different device?
A: Please clarify what type of device. The target device performs a power
on reset function when the POWER DISABLE signal is negated. Full
initialization is performed as if a new device is present.
Q: What other system-level impacts does this have?
A: It allows the system to control the D.C. power at a target device. Of
particular benefit is a case where communication to a target device is hung
and a POR is required to re-establish the connection. Instead of physically
removing the device from a system that does not have independent power
control at each device slot, the signal may be asserted, then disabled to
provide the same function as removing and reinserting the device or
independently removing and enabling D.C. power to that individual device
location.
4.     T. C. McNally via sanmina-sci.com
 Q: Is the pin choice for POWER DISABLE negotiable?  I would ask for this
function to be on P1.
A: P3 is consistent with changes made by SATA-IO. There are a significant
number of extent systems that require shorting of P1 to P2. We do not see
changing to P1 as a viable option.
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 9:52 AM, T. C. McNally <tc.mcnally at newisys.com>wrote:
> The main reason is we, Newisys, currently use P1 for this function.
>
> Thanks,
>
> T. C. Mc Nally
> System Engineer
> 719-884-8733
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Felton, Mickey
<mickey.felton at emc.com>wrote:
>
>> Can you provide a reason?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I believe the reasoning from Alvin on 3 was because 1 and 2 were always
>> connected together on ?other systems?..****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* T. C. McNally [mailto:tc.mcnally at newisys.com]
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 17, 2012 8:51 AM
>> *To:* Besmer, Brad
>> *Cc:* Felton, Mickey; Alvin Cox; T10 Reflector
>> *Subject:* Re: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> All,
>>
>> Is the pin choice for POWER DISABLE negotiable?  I would ask for this
>> function to be on P1.
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> T. C. Mc Nally
>> System Engineer
>> 719-884-8733****
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Besmer, Brad <Brad.Besmer at lsi.com>
>> wrote:****
>>
>> Alvin,****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Few discussion items:****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> 1 - There is no associated support in SPL-2 for this (ie. Identify /
>> Discover). How does the attached entity know if the target device supports
>> this behavior or not?****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> 2 ?What happens to the link-state when the POWER DISABLE signal is
>> asserted?****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> 3 ? How does attached device know if the device has been hot-swapped with
>> a different device?****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> 4 ? What other system-level impacts does this have?****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Brad****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> *From:* owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] *On Behalf Of
*Felton,
>> Mickey
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 3:39 PM
>> *To:* Alvin Cox; T10 Reflector
>> *Subject:* RE: Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Alvin- ****
>>
>> EMC agrees with the principal behind this proposal, but a few questions:*
>> ***
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> How long after stable 12V / 5V is the circuitry ready? Could it be
>> asserted while power is ramping up? ****
>>
>> Does the input signal on the drive have any special edge or level
>> requirements?****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Thanks!****
>>
>> -Mick****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> *From:* owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org <owner-t10 at t10.org>]
>> *On Behalf Of *Alvin Cox
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:33 PM
>> *To:* T10 Reflector
>> *Subject:* Proposal posted: SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> This proposal changes the functions of P1, P2, and P3 from 3.3V. The
>> signal assignment of these pins have been changed by other standards that
>> intermate with SAS connectors. Please review this proposal. The proposal
>> may be downloaded at:
>>   http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-363r0.pdf
>>
>> This proposal was introduced on the 8/16/12 SAS PHY call and will be the
>> first discussion item on the 8/23/12 SAS PHY call.****
>>
>> *Abstract *****
>>
>> This proposal documents the changes associated with the addition of POWER
>> DISABLE to SAS-3. This function provides a means for the SAS target device
>> with a SAS Drive plug connector or SAS MultiLink Drive plug connector to
>> remove D.C. power (+5V and +12V) from the drive circuitry when the power
>> disable signal is driven high by the system. The POWER DISABLE signal is
>> specified on P3. If POWER DISABLE is not supported, P3 shall be not
>> connected. P1 and P2 are shorted together to provide the same connection
as
>> on SAS drives compliant with versions of the SAS standard previous to
>> SAS-3, and to be consistent with the recommended implementation specified
>> by SATA since P1 and P2 have been retired and P3 may implement DEVSLP. The
>> functional polarity of POWER DISABLE is consistent with DEVSLP if the
>> DEVSLP function is enabled.****
>>
>>  Extensive research was done prior to drafting this proposal with respect
>> to system implementation on P1, P2, and P3. No instances were found where
>> systems provided 3.3V power to these pins. Maintaining the connection of
P1
>> to P2 provided the widest support of legacy implementations that used the
>> pins for functionality not specified by the SAS standard.****
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alvin Cox
>> Seagate Technology, LLC
>> Cell 405-206-4809
>> Office 405-392-3738
>> E-Mail  alvin.cox at seagate.com ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> CONFIDENTIALITY****
>>
>> This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use
by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or
confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this
e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly
prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail message in error, please
immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any
copies of this email and any prints thereof.****
>>
>> ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS
NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING.  Notwithstanding the Uniform
Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar
substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary
hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are
not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and
are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or
any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>
> CONFIDENTIALITY
> This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use
by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or
confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this
e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly
prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail message in error, please
immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any
copies of this email and any prints thereof.
> ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT
INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING.  Notwithstanding the Uniform
Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar
substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary
hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are
not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and
are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or
any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity.
>
>
>
-- 
Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Cell 405-206-4809
Office 405-392-3738
E-Mail	alvin.cox at seagate.com


From lohmeyer at t10.org  Sat Aug 18 23:01:32 2012
From: lohmeyer at t10.org (T10 Document Administrator)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 00:01:32 -0600
Subject: Recent T10 documents uploaded since 2012/08/12
Message-ID: <mailman.231.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* T10 Document Administrator <lohmeyer at t10.org>
*
Proposals
---------
SBC-3: Definitions for read, write, verify, and unmap operations
(by: Mark Evans)
T10/12-139r3   Uploaded: 2012/08/16   127038 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-139r3.pdf
Logical Unit Groups (aka Conglomerates) in SAM-5 and SPC-5
(by: Ralph Weber)
T10/12-247r2   Uploaded: 2012/08/12   98648 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-247r2.pdf
SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
(by: Alvin Cox)
T10/12-363r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/16   788298 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-363r0.pdf
SAS-3 transmitter device A.C. coupling requirements for CT
(by: Alvin Cox)
T10/12-365r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/17   33119 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-365r0.pdf
Working Drafts
--------------
(Report generated on 2012/08/19 at 00:01:32)
*
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
* 'info t10' (no quotes) in the message body to majordomo at t10.org


From gerry.houlder at seagate.com  Tue Aug 21 06:23:21 2012
From: gerry.houlder at seagate.com (Gerry Houlder)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 08:23:21 -0500
Subject: Reminder: Telecon Tues. Aug. 21 at 2:00 pm CDT
Message-ID: <mailman.232.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208210_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

The agenda for this telecon is to discuss
(a) 12-104r4 -- Adding progress indication to SYNCHRONIZE CACHE command
(b) 11-322 latest rev. -- Crash dump for SCSI
Meeting scheduled to end at 4:00 pm CDT
-------------------------------------------------------
Meeting information
-------------------------------------------------------
Topic: Proposals 12-104 and 11-322
Date: Tuesday, August 21, 2012
Time: 2:00 pm, Central Daylight Time (Chicago, GMT-05:00)
Meeting Number: 821 649 069
Meeting Password: T10T10T10
-------------------------------------------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------
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JjOGJl&RT=MiM3
-------------------------------------------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------
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From gerry.houlder at seagate.com  Tue Aug 21 13:40:11 2012
From: gerry.houlder at seagate.com (Gerry Houlder)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 15:40:11 -0500
Subject: Minutes of Aug. 21 telecon
Message-ID: <mailman.233.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

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A telecon and webex was held on Aug. 21, starting at 2:00 pm CDT. The
agenda was to discuss:
(a) 12-104 rev. 4 -- Adding progress indication to SYNCHRONIZE CACHE
command; and
(b) 11-322 rev. 2 -- Crash Dump
Attendees:
Curtis Ballard (HP)
George Penokie (LSI)
Fred Knight (NetApp)
Gerry Houlder (Seagate)
Jim Hatfield (Seagate))
12-104 rev 4 was reviewed. These changes were suggested:
(a) use Caching mode page as location for the two bit control field for
this feature;
(b) change acronym for the field to SYNC_PROG because the current acronym
was almost like an existing acronym;
(c) other minor word changes.
A new revision will be available for review at the CAP meeting in September.
11-322r2 was reviewed. Changes were made to align with latest revision of
the associated T13 feature.
The group identified the need for wording changes in the description of the
crash dump parameter data.
A new revision is expected for review at the CAP meeting in September.
The telecon adjourned at 3:27 pm CDT.


From alvin.cox at seagate.com  Wed Aug 22 10:09:47 2012
From: alvin.cox at seagate.com (Alvin Cox)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 12:09:47 -0500
Subject: Reminder: SAS PHY teleconference Thursday August 23, 2012, 10:00 am CDT
Message-ID: <mailman.234.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

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Next call:
August 23, 2012, 10:00 am CDT
Agenda:
SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
(12-363r0<http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-363r0.pdf&gt;)
[Cox]
General SAS-3 items to resolve:
a)     Does the zero length test load need to be updated for 12Gbps.
b)     Additional item comments (on or off the list)
(12-361r0<http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-361r0.pdf&gt;
)
Connector
New items?
Electrical
SAS-3 transmitter device A.C. coupling requirements for CT
(12-365r0<http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-365r0.pdf&gt;)
[Cox]
Channel compliance points and lengths
(11-239r4<http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=11-239r4.pdf&gt;)
[Felton]
EMI discussions in which Re-copy/post of Mike Jenkins work
(12-281r1<http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-281r1.pdf&gt;)
[Felton]
Additional or new items
Toll Free Dial in Number: (877)810-9442
International Access/Caller Paid Dial In Number: (636)651-3190
PARTICIPANT CODE: 3243413
Webex information:
Topic: SAS-3
Date: Every Thursday, from Thursday, July 26, 2012 to Thursday, September
6, 2012
Time: 10:00 am, Central Daylight Time (Chicago, GMT-05:00)
Meeting Number: 827 988 093
Meeting Password: sas12gbps
-------------------------------------------------------
To join the online meeting (Now from mobile devices!)
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to
https://seagate.webex.com/seagate/j.php?ED=158650437&UID=0&PW=NODQzMjNhYTdm&R
T=MiM3
2. If requested, enter your name and email address.
3. If a password is required, enter the meeting password: sas12gbps
4. Click "Join".
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To view in other time zones or languages, please click the link:
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1. Go to https://seagate.webex.com/seagate/mc
2. On the left navigation bar, click "Support".
To update this meeting to your calendar program (for example Microsoft
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ST=1&SHA2=pEI2tL0j5oE58s9ytOQWHuV98SACdVZgiFnrG-CNDds=&RT=MiM3
WebEx will automatically setup Meeting Manager for Windows the first time
you join a meeting. To save time, you can setup prior to the meeting by
clicking this link:
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The playback of UCF (Universal Communications Format) rich media files
requires appropriate players. To view this type of rich media files in the
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computer by going to https://seagate.webex.com/seagate/systemdiagnosis.php.
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IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows audio
and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed during the
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-- 
Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Cell 405-206-4809
Office 405-392-3738
E-Mail	alvin.cox at seagate.com


From mickey.felton at emc.com  Wed Aug 22 14:01:06 2012
From: mickey.felton at emc.com (Felton, Mickey)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 17:01:06 -0400
Subject: SFF8449.
Message-ID: <mailman.235.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

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Barry-
In table 5-9 of the SFF 8449 specification it calls out a MINIMUM operating
voltage WITHOUT a tolerance, or a tolerance built into the minimum.
I was wondering if we all implied a nominal operating voltage instead in this
table and we need a tolerance, or do we need to adjust the numbers in the
table to add a tolerance? Or other such adjustment?
Thanks..
-Mick


From Barry.Olawsky at hp.com  Thu Aug 23 03:43:26 2012
From: Barry.Olawsky at hp.com (Olawsky, Barry)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 10:43:26 +0000
Subject: SFF8449.
Message-ID: <mailman.236.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208230_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

I would prefer that minimum and maximum values have no tolerance and be
absolute. I'm OK with specifying nominal values in addition to the limits.
From: Felton, Mickey [mailto:mickey.felton at emc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 5:01 PM
To: T10 Reflector
Cc: Olawsky, Barry; Felton, Mickey
Subject: SFF8449.
Barry-
In table 5-9 of the SFF 8449 specification it calls out a MINIMUM operating
voltage WITHOUT a tolerance, or a tolerance built into the minimum.
I was wondering if we all implied a nominal operating voltage instead in this
table and we need a tolerance, or do we need to adjust the numbers in the
table to add a tolerance? Or other such adjustment?
Thanks..
-Mick


From hcurley at indra.com  Fri Aug 24 06:17:02 2012
From: hcurley at indra.com (Hugh Curley)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 06:17:02 -0700
Subject: SFF8449.
Message-ID: <mailman.237.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208240_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

Hello Barry,
The word MINIMUM cannot have a tolerance. For example if we have MINIMUM 
voltage = 2 volts plus or minus 10 percent, the MINIMUM is really 1.8 volts.
The same is true of MAXIMUM.
Thank you,
Hugh Curley
On 8/22/2012 2:01 PM, Felton, Mickey wrote:
>
> Barry-
>
> In table 5-9 of the SFF 8449 specification it calls out a MINIMUM 
> operating voltage WITHOUT a tolerance, or a tolerance built into the 
> minimum.
>
> I was wondering if we all implied a nominal operating voltage instead 
> in this table and we need a tolerance, or do we need to adjust the 
> numbers in the table to add a tolerance? Or other such adjustment?
>
> Thanks..
>
> -Mick
>


From mickey.felton at emc.com  Fri Aug 24 06:34:42 2012
From: mickey.felton at emc.com (Felton, Mickey)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 09:34:42 -0400
Subject: SFF8449.
Message-ID: <mailman.238.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208241_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

Please take a look at Table 6 Page 22 in the SFF 8436, where it gives
tolerances, we either need to add that couple line table in SFF8449 or change
the numbers to the minimum 1.8-5%, 2.5-5%, 3.3-5% in table 5-9..
From: Hugh Curley [mailto:hcurley at indra.com]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 9:17 AM
To: Felton, Mickey
Cc: T10 Reflector; Olawsky, Barry
Subject: Re: SFF8449.
Hello Barry,
The word MINIMUM cannot have a tolerance. For example if we have MINIMUM
voltage = 2 volts plus or minus 10 percent, the MINIMUM is really 1.8 volts.
The same is true of MAXIMUM.
Thank you,
Hugh Curley
On 8/22/2012 2:01 PM, Felton, Mickey wrote:
Barry-
In table 5-9 of the SFF 8449 specification it calls out a MINIMUM operating
voltage WITHOUT a tolerance, or a tolerance built into the minimum.
I was wondering if we all implied a nominal operating voltage instead in this
table and we need a tolerance, or do we need to adjust the numbers in the
table to add a tolerance? Or other such adjustment?
Thanks..
-Mick


From WHubis at fusionio.com  Fri Aug 24 12:30:03 2012
From: WHubis at fusionio.com (Walter Hubis)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 13:30:03 -0600
Subject: Minutes of August 10 Teleconference
Message-ID: <mailman.239.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Walter Hubis <WHubis at fusionio.com>
*
<Sorry for the delay in getting these notes out - WAH>
At 10:00PST on August 10, 2012, Fusion-io hosted a T10 conference call to
present document 12-332r0, "Non-Volatile Memory Based Storage". The goal of
the call was to establish the best ways to incorporate the new features and
functionality that NVM combined with PCIe into the existing T10 SCSI
specifications. The key points:
- The meeting lasted an hour with around 40 participants. 
- Walt Hubis (Fusion-io) presented 12-332-r0.
- There was a great deal of discussion about the proposal and how to move
forward - about half of the meeting.
- There was no support for a new SCSI device type.
- The almost unanimous consensus was that a combination of modifications to
existing commands along with some new commands	would be the right way to
proceed.
- The difficulty with the banded drive proposal was single out an example of
why a new class would not be a good way to proceed.
- Concerns were voiced that a new device type will break a lot of SCSI driver
stacks.
- The next step is for Fusion-io to prepare a proposal that describes how we
propose to implement the primitives in the existing specifications.
    (1) Use WRITE SAME to implement Persistent TRIM.
    (2) Recommendation to refer to PERSISTENT TRIM as DETERMINISTIC TRIM.
    (3) Add a new type of provisioning to accommodate these needs. 
    (4) Prepare a presentation detailing Scattered Atomic Writes use case, 
	where not all of the segments are atomic.
- It was recommended that this be presented to T13 (ATA), as there will be
side effects in the SCSI/ATA Translation layer (SAT).
Attendance
----------
<Not a complete list - please let me know if you want your attendance
recorded.>
Mr. HengLiang Zhang	     Futurewei Technologies Inc
Mr. Roy Clark		     EMC Corporation
Mr. Paul Suhler 	     Quantum Corporation
Mr. Don Harwood 	     OCZ Technology Group Inc
Mr. Chris Fore		     NetApp
Dr. Peter Onufryk	     Integrated Device Technology (IDT)
Mr. Dan Colegrove	     HGST
Mr. Jim Hatfield	     Seagate Technology
Mr. Gerald Houlder	     Seagate Technology
Mr. Stephen Finch	     Western Digital Corporation
Mr. John Geldman	     Lexar Media Inc
Mr. John Merrill	     Intel Corporation
Mr. David Black 	     EMC Corprotation
Mr. Frederick Knight	     NetApp 
Mr. Walt Hubis		     Fusion-io Corporation
-Walt
---
Walt Hubis
Storage Standards Architect
Fusion-io
Phone: (+1) 303.641.8528
Email: whubis at fusionio.com
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may be privileged.  Any
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From roweber at ieee.org  Fri Aug 24 20:41:15 2012
From: roweber at ieee.org (Ralph Weber)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 22:41:15 -0500
Subject: Updated SPC-4 Letter Ballot files
Message-ID: <mailman.240.1441607378.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Ralph Weber <roweber at ieee.org>
*
New SPC-4 letter ballot files, specifically 12-311r3 and SPC-4r36e,
are now available. They reflect recently received late comments, the
decisions reached during the 6 August call, and a randomly selected
collection of comment resolutions made at the editor's discretion.
The files are:
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-311r3.pdf
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=f&f=spc4r36e.pdf
As before, the instructions on page 1 of 12-311r3 are invaluable
(unless you have already memorized them).
All the best,
.Ralph
*
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From Paul.Suhler at quantum.com  Sat Aug 25 06:10:54 2012
From: Paul.Suhler at quantum.com (Paul Suhler)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 13:10:54 +0000
Subject: Obsolete OCRW Devices in SPC-5?
Message-ID: <mailman.241.1441607379.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208250_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>
Attachment #1: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208250_image001.gif">image001.gif</a>

Hi, everyone.
Optical Card Reader/Writer (OCRW) devices apparently first appeared in SPC-2.
 Are these still produced?  If not, then should they be obsoleted in SPC-5? 
I have a proposal to obsolete printer devices
(T10/12-362r0<http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-362r0.pdf&gt;), so this
could be added.
Thanks,
Paul
_____________________________________________________________________________
________________________
Paul A. Suhler, PhD | Firmware Engineer | Quantum Corporation | Office:
949.856.7748 | paul.suhler at quantum.com
[be-certain_lockup.gif]<http://www.quantum.com/&gt;


From roweber at ieee.org  Sat Aug 25 14:22:16 2012
From: roweber at ieee.org (Ralph Weber)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 16:22:16 -0500
Subject: Obsolete OCRW Devices in SPC-5?
Message-ID: <mailman.242.1441607379.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Ralph Weber <roweber at ieee.org>
*
The standard that defines OCRW devices is still available for purchase
|from ISO/IEC.
ISO/IEC 14776-381:2000
Information technology -- Small Computer System Interface (SCSI) -- Part 
381:
Optical Memory Card Device Commands (OMC)
This recommends strongly against making them obsolete without first 
consulting
the ISO/IEC home office.
All the best,
.Ralph
On 8/25/2012 8:10 AM, Paul Suhler wrote:
>
> Hi, everyone.
>
> Optical Card Reader/Writer (OCRW) devices apparently first appeared in 
> SPC-2.  Are these still produced?  If not, then should they be 
> obsoleted in SPC-5?  I have a proposal to obsolete printer devices 
> (T10/12-362r0 <http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-362r0.pdf&gt;), 
> so this could be added.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul
>
>
*____________________________________________________________________________
_________________________* 
>
> Paul A. Suhler, PhD| Firmware Engineer | Quantum Corporation| Office: 
> 949.856.7748 | paul.suhler at quantum.com 
>
> be-certain_lockup.gif <http://www.quantum.com/&gt;
>
*
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From lohmeyer at t10.org  Sat Aug 25 23:01:52 2012
From: lohmeyer at t10.org (T10 Document Administrator)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2012 00:01:52 -0600
Subject: Recent T10 documents uploaded since 2012/08/19
Message-ID: <mailman.243.1441607379.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* T10 Document Administrator <lohmeyer at t10.org>
*
Proposals
---------
SBC-4 SPC-5 Atomic writes and reads
(by: Rob Elliott and Ashish Batwara)
T10/11-229r6   Uploaded: 2012/08/24   282885 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=11-229r6.pdf
SPL-3 Persistent Connection
(by: George Penokie)
T10/12-251r4   Uploaded: 2012/08/22   608104 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-251r4.pdf
SBC-3 Migrate from the FORMAT UNIT command SI bit to SANITIZE
(by: Rob Elliott)
T10/12-274r1   Uploaded: 2012/08/22   122646 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-274r1.pdf
SBC-3 Allow verify operations on unmapped LBAs
(by: Rob Elliott)
T10/12-282r1   Uploaded: 2012/08/23   263663 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-282r1.pdf
SPC-4 Letter Ballot Comment Resolutions
(by: Ralph Weber)
T10/12-311r3   Uploaded: 2012/08/24   8419559 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-311r3.fdf
SPC-4 Letter Ballot Comment Resolutions
(by: Ralph Weber)
T10/12-311r3   Uploaded: 2012/08/24   1867854 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-311r3.pdf
Minutes of T10 Plenary Meeting #110 - Jul 19, 2012
(by: Weber & Lohmeyer)
T10/12-327r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/24   143347 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-327r0.htm
Minutes of T10 Plenary Meeting #110 - Jul 19, 2012
(by: Weber & Lohmeyer)
T10/12-327r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/24   297972 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-327r0.pdf
SPC-4 MODE SENSE (6) with more than 256 bytes of data
(by: Rob Elliott)
T10/12-333r1   Uploaded: 2012/08/22   150984 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-333r1.pdf
SAM-5 Move multiple port model from SPC-4
(by: Rob Elliott)
T10/12-335r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/22   164606 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-335r0.pdf
Agenda for T10 Meeting #111 September 13, 2012
(by: John Lohmeyer)
T10/12-344r1   Uploaded: 2012/08/24   15221 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-344r1.pdf
Minutes of SAS PHY Working Group conference call August 16, 2012
(by: Alvin Cox)
T10/12-364r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/22   24549 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-364r0.pdf
PQI Cleanup Coalescing Trigger
(by: Brad Besmer)
T10/12-366r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/20   152336 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-366r0.pdf
Project Proposal: SBC-4 (SCSI Block Commands - 4)
(by: Mark Evans)
T10/12-367r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/21   21177 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-367r0.pdf
SBC-3 GET LBA STATUS and related clarifications
(by: Rob Elliott)
T10/12-368r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/21   200172 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-368r0.pdf
SBC-4 Yet another DIF type
(by: Rob Elliott)
T10/12-369r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/24   307293 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-369r0.pdf
Molex Patent Statement re SAS-3
(by: Stephen L. Sheldon)
T10/12-370r0   Uploaded: 2012/08/24   291224 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-370r0.pdf
Working Drafts
--------------
SCSI Primary Commands - 4 (SPC-4)
(Editor: Ralph Weber)
 Rev: 36e      Uploaded: 2012/08/24   4331732 bytes
http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=f&f=spc4r36e.pdf
(Report generated on 2012/08/26 at 00:01:52)
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From lohmeyer at t10.org  Tue Aug 28 01:00:00 2012
From: lohmeyer at t10.org (T10 List Manager)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 02:00:00 -0600
Subject: T10 Reflector Monthly Reminder
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*
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From alvin.cox at seagate.com  Wed Aug 29 13:59:50 2012
From: alvin.cox at seagate.com (Alvin Cox)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 15:59:50 -0500
Subject: Reminder: SAS PHY teleconference Thursday August 30, 2012, 10:00 am CDT
Message-ID: <mailman.245.1441607379.22528.t10@sandbox.t10.org>

Formatted message: <a href="http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=r&f=r1208290_f.htm">HTML-formatted message</a>

Next call:
August 30, 2012, 10:00 am CDT
Agenda:
SAS-3 addition of POWER DISABLE
(12-363r1<http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-363r1.pdf&gt;)
[Cox]
General SAS-3 items to resolve:
a)     Does the zero length test load need to be updated for 12Gbps.
b)     Additional item comments (on or off the list)
(12-361r0<http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-361r0.pdf&gt;
)
Connector
New items?
Electrical
SAS-3 transmitter device A.C. coupling requirements for CT
(12-365r1<http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-365r1.pdf&gt;)
[Cox]
Channel compliance points and lengths
(11-239r4<http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=11-239r4.pdf&gt;)
[Felton]
EMI discussions in which Re-copy/post of Mike Jenkins work
(12-281r1<http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=d&f=12-281r1.pdf&gt;)
[Felton]
Additional or new items
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