DVD CSS Feature Descriptor/DVD-Download

Jim Taylor jtfrog at usa.net
Fri Sep 5 12:26:51 PDT 2008


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Jim Taylor" <jtfrog at usa.net>
*
As David pointed out, feature 106h current should NOT be set to one if a
recordable DVD-Download disc (blank) is present, because it could cause
problems with playback applications. We designed DVD-Download media to act
in two ways: before recording it's a new type of DVD-R; after recording it
should be as indistinguishable as possible from standard replicated DVD-ROM,
at least for playback applications. Feature 106h bits should be set
accordingly.
I thought we already had a way to differentiate pre-keyed from un-keyed. If
not, then feature 10Eh is the right place to add it.
-- Jim
From: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com [mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com]
On Behalf Of Reiner Kopf
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 9:58 AM
To: 'mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com'
Cc: 't10 at t10.org'
Subject: RE: DVD CSS Feature Descriptor/DVD-Download
Hello,
the idea behind my proposal is that the current specification in Mt Fuji has
no possibility to find out if a pre-keyed or non pre-keyed
DVD-Download disc is loaded. According the physical specification both disc
types are possible and exist. So I would prefer David's
last proposal:
"This bit shall be set to zero if neither a DVD CSS/CPPM medium nor a
recordable DVD-Download medium is present."
Another possibility to identify these two disc types would be to add an
additional bit in the Feature Descriptor 10Eh (DVD CSS Managed
recording) indicating if the DVD-Download disc is pre-keyed or not.
Best regards,
Reiner
  _____
From: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com [mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com]
On Behalf Of Jim Taylor
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 3:24 AM
To: mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
Cc: t10 at t10.org
Subject: RE: DVD CSS Feature Descriptor/DVD-Download
If we agree that feature 106h current bit should be non-zero for recorded
(not blank) DVD-Download media, then I suggest that the language stay as is,
and that a clarifying note be added, so it would be something like:
This bit shall be set to zero if DVD CSS/CPPM medium is not present. Note: A
recorded DVD-Download medium is considered CSS medium. A blank DVD-Download
medium (with or without pre-recorded CDZ) is not considered CSS medium.
-- Jim
From: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com [mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com]
On Behalf Of David Burg
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 6:07 PM
To: mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
Cc: t10 at t10.org
Subject: RE: DVD CSS Feature Descriptor/DVD-Download
Jim has got a point with regards to the availability of feature 10Eh for
blank DVD-Download medium.
Feature 106h needs to be current for recorded DVD-Download disc, otherwise
legacy DVD playback applications wouldn't work.
Btw, Kohda-san kindly pointed me to the unintended double negation in my
proposal of alternate working. Please read accordingly: "This bit shall be
set to zero if neither a DVD CSS/CPPM medium nor a recordable DVD-Download
medium is not present."
With regards,
David.
From: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com [mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com]
On Behalf Of Jim Taylor
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 5:47 PM
To: mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
Cc: t10 at t10.org
Subject: RE: DVD CSS Feature Descriptor/DVD-Download
David is right, DVD-Download media by definition are CSS media, so it would
be confusing to add DVD-Download as if it were different.
That said, my understanding is that feature 106h is for recorded media, not
blank media, since it's used in CSS playback. Note that it's set for CPPM
but not for CPRM. Therefore it should NOT be set for a blank DVD-Download
disc. It could be set for a recorded DVD-Download disc, but I don't know off
the top of my head if it will be hard for the drive to make the distinction.
We already created feature 10Eh for DVD-Download.
-- Jim
From: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com [mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com]
On Behalf Of David Burg
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:21 PM
To: mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
Cc: 't10 at t10.org'
Subject: RE: DVD CSS Feature Descriptor/DVD-Download
Hello,
I am not a law.  Erh, not a native English speaker, but shouldn't it be
(from a language point of view) something like	"This bit shall be set to
zero if neither a DVD CSS/CPPM medium nor a recordable DVD-Download medium
is not present."?
>From a technical point of view, aren't DVD-Download media supposed to be CSS
medium?
With regards,
David.
From: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com [mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com]
On Behalf Of Reiner Kopf
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:58 AM
To: 'mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com'
Cc: 't10 at t10.org'
Subject: DVD CSS Feature Descriptor/DVD-Download
Hello all,
while reviewing the latest Mt Fuji specification rev 7, ver 1.00, we found
that the definition of the "Current"
bit in chapter "17.4.2.46 Feature 0106h: DVD CSS" on page 619 should be
extended in order to take into
account a DVD-Download disc (SL and DL).
Our proposal is that the "Current" bit should also be set to one in case a
DVD-Download disc is present.
So the description of the "Current" bit should be modified from
    "This bit shall be set to zero if DVD CSS/CPPM medium is not present."
to
    "This bit shall be set to zero if DVD CSS/CPPM medium and a recordable
DVD-Download disc is not present."
Best regards,
Reiner Kopf
Nero AG
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