Posted: Pioneer counter proposal
keiji_katata at post.pioneer.co.jp
keiji_katata at post.pioneer.co.jp
Mon Jan 7 21:42:45 PST 2008
* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* keiji_katata at post.pioneer.co.jp
I'm sorry that I do not have a connection with manager of high rank. I work
end users/ordinary PC users side. So I may have communication with
people/engineer such as sales side, Quality Control side, Customer support
and retail shop side.
"due to insufficient average data rate"
Specification allows much possibility than the possibility that may be
in the market. DVD 2X transfer rate is OK for HD content on DVD. Most of DVD
slim drive have this speed now.
In addition, to support DVD+R/+RW, 3.3X is supported on DVD writer drive.
Currently HD ready system (ex. Vista premium model) has new good performance
drive. What I want to say is that already PC manufactures have released HD
system to the market. Of course old drive or low performance drive may be
"Real Time Streaming feature"
This feature does not have capability for "execution time for an I/O
A series of commands will be executed appropriately for Streaming. This is
function of ODD drive.
I understood a problem that HD not-ready drive does not have good performance
for HD content playback. Pioneer simple proposal has the solution for this
I do not understand the root cause of your "execution time for an I/O
problem. You may inform us about what is problem (and root cause) of
time for an I/O operation".
David Burg <daviburg at windows.microsoft.com>@avc-pioneer.com on 2008/01/08
mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com$B$KJV?.$7$F$/$@$5$$(B
$BAw?.<T(B: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
$B08 at h(B: "mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com" <mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com>
cc: T10 Reflector <t10 at t10.org>
$B7oL>(B: RE: Posted: Pioneer counter proposal
This proposal is highly different from Microsoft-Toshiba proposal and you
mention "Pioneer and its partner companies do not receive any request of the
above items from PC manufactures."
I believe however that David Walp already shared with the committee at the
previous meeting the following from Dell in a response to a similar comment
made at the Las Vegas meeting. It case it slipped through, let me repeat it
" From: Lee, Kah Soon
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 3:04 AM
To: David Walp
Cc: David Burg; Lo, James; Sellers, Sabrina
James and I have reviewed the new Mt. Fuji proposal on speed detection and
control commands update.
We have no concern on the proposal and this is aligned with our goal in
noise issue. We agreed with the proposed solution.
Regards, Kah Soon"
This person from Dell later added:
"Thanks for sharing with us on the status of this proposal.
Please let us know whether you need any help from us to work together with
optical drives suppliers, especially the prototype drives/firmware.
Just keep us posted on the progress."
I observe that there is here a disconnect between Pioneer's statement and
Dell communicated to Microsoft (and allowed to share as their statement).
I further cannot concur with Pioneer's claims with regard to "A minimum
data rate for HD content on DVD is guaranteed already. So new scheme is not
necessary." As a matter of fact Microsoft and partners have prototyped HD DVD
Video content on Red laser DVD and due to insufficient average data rate the
playback is badly jittered. Work is required!
Multiple other host software companies already joined Microsoft in the
for reporting logical unit performance capabilities to the end user and few
sent representatives to the committee meeting. I am amazed that Pioneer still
denies the existence of this request!
Pioneer claims that reporting precise execution time for an I/O operation
not have any relationship with Real Time Streaming issue. However it is
the misunderstandings around the existing Real Time Streaming feature and
fabrication of inaccurate respond data to performance command associated with
this feature that cause execution time for an I/O operation to be reported
imprecisely (the device performing actually at different speed than it was
instructed and different than it is reporting)!
I just returned yesterday to US and I am not able to attend the 1/9 SWG
in Japan. I ask however that you consider the feedback we have provided.
From: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com [mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com] On
Behalf Of keiji_katata at post.pioneer.co.jp
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:06 PM
To: mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
Cc: T10 Reflector
Subject: Posted: Pioneer counter proposal
I posted a counter proposal for 1/9 SWG.
ftp.avc-pioneer.com/Mtfuji_7/Proposal/Jan08/SWG/Pioneer Stream Model.doc
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
* 'info t10' (no quotes) in the message body to majordomo at t10.org
More information about the T10