Reminder: SAS_1.1 PHY WG conference call, 2/10/05, 10 am CST

Alvin.Cox at seagate.com Alvin.Cox at seagate.com
Mon Feb 7 12:46:24 PST 2005


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Alvin.Cox at seagate.com
*
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Next call: February 10, 2005 
Thursday, 10 am CST. 
Same webex and call number for all calls: 

Webex: 
seagate.webex.com (no www) 
Topic: SAS PHY WG 
Date: Every 1 week on Thursday,  beginning Thursday, January 27, 2005 
Time: 10:00 am, Central Standard Time (GMT -06:00, Chicago) 
Meeting number: 825 549 498 
Meeting password: section5 

Toll Free Dial in Number:  (866) 279-4742 
International Access/Caller Paid Dial In Number:  (309) 229-0118 
PARTICIPANT CODE:  3243413 

Agenda: 

1) 05-019r1    SAS 1.1 OOB For SAS/SATA Support 
http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.05/05-019r1.pdf 

Review draft white paper by Bill Bissonette concerning if damage to SATA
devices is an issue. The paper should include an explanation of when the
SAS signal levels would be delivered to the SATA device and give voltage
level and circuit examples to aid the analysis. Dan mentioned a concern
over long tem electro-migration. 

2) 04-378r1           SAS-1.1 Clarification of SATA Signaling Level
Specification [Olawsky and Bissonette] 
http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.04/04-378r1.pdf 
 
3Gbps SATA numbers in tables: 
SATA and SAS specification specify amplitude differently, resulting in
significantly different minimum values. 
Pre-emphasis has not been included in simulations. 
How real is a worst case SATA device (rise time, amplitude, jitter)?
Experience is that SATA devices are much better than worst case. 
Eye closure concerns due to influence of reflections from ESD diodes,
connectors, etc. These factors may reduce the affects of pre-emphasis
and amplitude. 

Bill Bissonette and Barry Olawsky to work on 3G numbers. 

3) Use of words: "Maximum near-end crosstalk" [Olawsky] 

Maximum near-end crosstalk has two different uses in the rev 8 SAS 1.1
specification. In Tables 28 and 29 (pages 151 and 152) it has its common
useage refering to crosstalk measured within a cable. In Tables 33 and
35 (pages 171 and 174) is has a different meaning that is defined in
note f as: 
Near-end crosstalk is the unwanted signal amplitude at IR and CR coupled
|from signals and noise sources other than the desired signal. See
SFF-8410. 

This definition of near-end crosstalk is different than the standard
usage and now that near-end crosstalk is specified for cable
performance, it is more critical that the intent be made clear. I
suggest we consider changing the name of the parameter in Tables 33 and
35 to something more appropriate. 

4) 05-062r0     SAS 1.1 Signal Performance Measurements Annex [Penokie] 
http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.05/05-062r0.pdf

Please review for discussion.

5) New 4X connector proposals need to be drafted if they will be
included in SAS 1.1
04-320r0     SAS-1.1 Reduced width internal connector [Neer] 
04-321r0     SAS-1.1 Reduced width external connector [Neer] 

SFF-8086 Interface 
SFF-8087 Internal 
SFF-8088 External 

Two sections (one for internal and one for external) for each of the
following: 
connector configuration 
pinout 
electrical requirements 

6) Review draft proposal concerning transients during OOB [Cox] 

7) New items 


Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Tel 405-350-7424
Fax 405-324-3067
Cell 405-206-4809
E-Mail  alvin.cox at seagate.com

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<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Next call: February 10, 2005 <br>
Thursday, 10 am CST. <br>
Same webex and call number for all calls: <br>
<br>
Webex: <br>
seagate.webex.com (no www) <br>
Topic: SAS PHY WG <br>
Date: Every 1 week on Thursday, &nbsp;beginning Thursday, January 27, 2005
<br>
Time: 10:00 am, Central Standard Time (GMT -06:00, Chicago) <br>
Meeting number: 825 549 498 <br>
Meeting password: section5 <br>
<br>
Toll Free Dial in Number: &nbsp;(866) 279-4742 <br>
International Access/Caller Paid Dial In Number: &nbsp;(309) 229-0118 <br>
PARTICIPANT CODE: &nbsp;3243413 <br>
<br>
Agenda: <br>
<br>
1) 05-019r1 &nbsp; &nbsp;SAS 1.1 OOB For SAS/SATA Support </font><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u><br>
http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.05/05-019r1.pdf</u></font><font size=2 face="Courier New">
<br>
<br>
Review draft white paper by Bill Bissonette concerning if damage to SATA
devices is an issue. The paper should include an explanation of when the
SAS signal levels would be delivered to the SATA device and give voltage
level and circuit examples to aid the analysis. Dan mentioned a concern
over long tem electro-migration. <br>
<br>
2) 04-378r1 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; SAS-1.1 Clarification of
SATA Signaling Level Specification [Olawsky and Bissonette] </font><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u><br>
http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.04/04-378r1.pdf</u></font><font size=2 face="Courier New">
<br>
 &nbsp;<br>
3Gbps SATA numbers in tables: </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">SATA and SAS specification specify
amplitude differently, resulting in significantly different minimum values.
</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Pre-emphasis has not been included
in simulations. </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">How real is a worst case SATA device
(rise time, amplitude, jitter)? Experience is that SATA devices are much
better than worst case. </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Eye closure concerns due to influence
of reflections from ESD diodes, connectors, etc. These factors may reduce
the affects of pre-emphasis and amplitude.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Bill Bissonette and Barry Olawsky to
work on 3G numbers.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">3) Use of words: "Maximum near-end
crosstalk" [Olawsky]</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Maximum near-end crosstalk has two
different uses in the rev 8 SAS 1.1 specification. In Tables 28 and 29
(pages 151 and 152) it has its common useage refering to crosstalk measured
within a cable. In Tables 33 and 35 (pages 171 and 174) is has a different
meaning that is defined in note f as:</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Near-end crosstalk is the unwanted
signal amplitude at IR and CR coupled from signals and noise sources other
than the desired signal. See SFF-8410.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">This definition of near-end crosstalk
is different than the standard usage and now that near-end crosstalk is
specified for cable performance, it is more critical that the intent be
made clear. I suggest we consider changing the name of the parameter in
Tables 33 and 35 to something more appropriate.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
4) 05-062r0 &nbsp; &nbsp; SAS 1.1 Signal Performance Measurements Annex
[Penokie]</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.05/05-062r0.pdf<br>
</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Please review for discussion.<br>
<br>
5) New 4X connector proposals need to be drafted if they will be included
in SAS 1.1<br>
04-320r0 &nbsp; &nbsp; SAS-1.1 Reduced width internal connector [Neer]</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">04-321r0 &nbsp; &nbsp; SAS-1.1 Reduced
width external connector [Neer]</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">SFF-8086 Interface</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">SFF-8087 Internal</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">SFF-8088 External</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Two sections (one for internal and
one for external) for each of the following:</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">connector configuration</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">pinout</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">electrical requirements</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">6) Review draft proposal concerning
transients during OOB [Cox]</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
7) New items <br>
</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
Alvin Cox<br>
Seagate Technology, LLC<br>
Tel 405-350-7424<br>
Fax 405-324-3067<br>
Cell 405-206-4809<br>
E-Mail &nbsp;alvin.cox at seagate.com</font>
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