Twin Format layer to play selection issue for PC software player

Henry Gabryjelski henrygab at windows.microsoft.com
Fri Aug 12 08:39:42 PDT 2005


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Henry Gabryjelski" <henrygab at windows.microsoft.com>
*
Katata-san,

There are so many questions, and e-mail is perhaps not a perfect way to describe the proposals in depth.  However, I have some clarifications and perhaps differences with even David's responses.

Regarding the file system and/or multisession:  I do not agree that multisession is necessary, as LOW can also provide sufficient functionality.  However, both options are provided as they enable similar PC behavior.

Regarding the 2nd layer file system: The 2nd layer file system may optionally refer to the previous layer's files.  This can be a production decision, and made on a per-file basis.  However, it may be best to refer to all files on the 1st session if they are part of the core content.  This is because not all OS have "session selection" feature that David mentioned.  Therefore, referencing all the files makes a more compatible disc on legacy OS with legacy player.

Regarding legacy players:  Not all current players decode the file system manually.  So, I think it may be still very useful to have the file system from the 1st layer referenced in the later layers.

A movie studio would make such a disc as follows:  Normal DVD-ROM mastering techniques are followed.  No change for that layer.  Blue-laser layer content is encoded simultaneously for dics without DVD-ROM layer.  For hybrid discs, only the file system portion of the blue-laser layer needs to be updated (possible because content does not have embedded LBAs).  For a multisession solution, normal disc images are sufficient to send to mastering house.  For LOW solution, small additional information of which LBAs are part of LOW structures needs to also be included wth the images.

I do not understand your question regarding playback control.

Copy protection is CSS for DVD-ROM layer, AACS for blue laser layer.

If HD CE system does not support DVD, then it does not provide the option to playback the DVD content, so no DVD cost is applied.  Can you help me understand the problem you see in this case?

I think it is a good idea to schedule the September Mt. Fuji meeting.  This way, if discussion must continue, we already have separate time from MMC meeting.

Thank you,

Henry Gabryjelski


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com [mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com] On Behalf Of keiji_katata at post.pioneer.co.jp
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 4:54 AM
To: mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
Cc: t10 at t10.org
Subject: RE: Twin Format layer to play selection issue for PC software player


5. I am confused. Who is selecting the HD format layer, the playback
software?
-> User commanded playback software to play HD video back. Then playback
software changes Format layer.

Hence you avoid to need a OS (kernel) patch to support
-> woo..?, to make multi-session works well, OS must support them
(Multi-session on ROM, strange Profile structure, CD audio session with DVD
and UDF 2.5, etc). So the system may not work on current OS.

>From part 3 layer point of view, how does Movie studio make such
multi-session disc? How does playback control work? Copy protection?
Regional playback control? Some HD CE system may not support DVD. It is
because that DVD needs additional cost and DVD is out of their business.

Do you really think that we need 9/12 Fuji meeting?
(In such case, we must move on Sunday.)

Best regards,

Keiji Katata
PIONEER CORP.





"David Burg" <dburg at nero.com>@avc-pioneer.com on 2005/08/12 19:40:10

mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com$B$KJV?.$7$F$/$@$5$$(J

$BAw?.<T(J:     owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com




$B08 at h(J:  <mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com>
cc:    <t10 at t10.org>
bcc:
$B7oL>(J:  RE: Twin Format layer to play selection issue for PC software player

 Hello Katata-san,

5. I am confused. Who is selecting the HD format layer, the playback
software?

"Why do we use Multi-Session?"

Because it permits to see both format layers in a single address space. You
eliminate the need of a layer selection command. Hence you avoid to need a
OS (kernel) patch to support the new twin/hybrid format.

Best regards,

David Burg,
Nero AG.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com [mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com]
On Behalf Of keiji_katata at post.pioneer.co.jp
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 12:11 PM
To: mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
Cc: t10 at t10.org
Subject: RE: Twin Format layer to play selection issue for PC software
player


5. Assumed demerit

The system has UDF 1.02-2.01 file system. Then user can see DVD format
layer on Explorer. But if HD format layer that uses UDF 2.5 is selected,
then user cannot see HD format layer on Explorer. This means that user
cannot see the HD/DVD hybrid disc on Explorer after HD format layer has
been selected.

By the wasy, ...
--------
If you want to access the files of the first session,
you will have to 'unmount' the second session and mount
the first session.
--------
Why do we use Multi-Session?

Best regards,

Keiji Katata
PIONEER CORP.






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