Twin Format layer to play selection issue for PC software player

David Burg dburg at nero.com
Fri Aug 12 05:10:35 PDT 2005


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "David Burg" <dburg at nero.com>
*
Hello Katata-san,

"5. I am confused. Who is selecting the HD format layer, the playback
software?
-> User commanded playback software to play HD video back. Then playback
software changes Format layer. "

Ok, my bad. Please disregard my previous:

"If you want to access the files of the first
session, you will have to 'unmount' the second session and mount the first
session."

And consider only:

"Or more easily, if the file system driver mount the second session,
the playback software once it finds out it needs to access the first session
content (either to play the CD audio sound track or because it does not have
suitable codecs for the second session) parse the file system itself through
block access"

Then you do not have any problem if the playback software dies (except you
need to restart it, of course...).

"Hence you avoid to need a OS (kernel) patch to support
-> woo..?, to make multi-session works well, OS must support them
(Multi-session on ROM, strange Profile structure, CD audio session with DVD
and UDF 2.5, etc). So the system may not work on current OS."

The OS needs to mount only the last session, which is precisely what Windows
is doing today (Henry, stop me if I am wrongly assuming how your OS behaves
;-) ). Then dedicated user-mode video or/and audio playback software can
playback the first session. They do not need a layer select mmc command,
they can use the existing block access.

"From part 3 layer point of view, how does Movie studio make such
multi-session disc? How does playback control work? Copy protection?
Regional playback control? Some HD CE system may not support DVD. It is
because that DVD needs additional cost and DVD is out of their business."

I do not understand the relationship between Microsoft's proposed solution
and these CE concerns. Twin Format has this impact on CE whether you choose
Microsoft or MEI or Toshiba solution (that is, the presence of both DVD/CD
and HD layer).

"Do you really think that we need 9/12 Fuji meeting?"

We have a tremendous amount of reflector discussions already for this hot
topic. Plus we are waiting for additional feedback from DVD Forum we will
not have in August meeting. Yes, my personal opinion is that we will have
use of an additional day of discussion. But if Pioneer cannot make it to
Monday, this will be a problem indeed as you are an essential actor of the
discussion.

"(In such case, we must move on Sunday.)"

I do not understand why this is a new problem - the meeting date was already
agreed before. I do not understand why we should cancel. Actually, now there
are even DVD Forum meetings in Seattle the week before, so people attending
both DVD Forum and Mt Fuji will be on the road anyway.

Best regards,

David Burg,
Nero AG.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com [mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com]
On Behalf Of keiji_katata at post.pioneer.co.jp
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 1:54 PM
To: mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
Cc: t10 at t10.org
Subject: RE: Twin Format layer to play selection issue for PC software
player


5. I am confused. Who is selecting the HD format layer, the playback
software?
-> User commanded playback software to play HD video back. Then playback
software changes Format layer.

Hence you avoid to need a OS (kernel) patch to support
-> woo..?, to make multi-session works well, OS must support them
(Multi-session on ROM, strange Profile structure, CD audio session with DVD
and UDF 2.5, etc). So the system may not work on current OS.

>From part 3 layer point of view, how does Movie studio make such
multi-session disc? How does playback control work? Copy protection?
Regional playback control? Some HD CE system may not support DVD. It is
because that DVD needs additional cost and DVD is out of their business.

Do you really think that we need 9/12 Fuji meeting?
(In such case, we must move on Sunday.)

Best regards,

Keiji Katata
PIONEER CORP.





"David Burg" <dburg at nero.com>@avc-pioneer.com on 2005/08/12 19:40:10

mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com$B$KJV?.$7$F$/$@$5$$(J

$BAw?.<T(J:     owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com




$B08 at h(J:  <mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com>
cc:    <t10 at t10.org>
bcc:
$B7oL>(J:  RE: Twin Format layer to play selection issue for PC software player

 Hello Katata-san,

5. I am confused. Who is selecting the HD format layer, the playback
software?

"Why do we use Multi-Session?"

Because it permits to see both format layers in a single address space. You
eliminate the need of a layer selection command. Hence you avoid to need a
OS (kernel) patch to support the new twin/hybrid format.

Best regards,

David Burg,
Nero AG.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com [mailto:owner-mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com]
On Behalf Of keiji_katata at post.pioneer.co.jp
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 12:11 PM
To: mtfuji5 at avc-pioneer.com
Cc: t10 at t10.org
Subject: RE: Twin Format layer to play selection issue for PC software
player


5. Assumed demerit

The system has UDF 1.02-2.01 file system. Then user can see DVD format
layer on Explorer. But if HD format layer that uses UDF 2.5 is selected,
then user cannot see HD format layer on Explorer. This means that user
cannot see the HD/DVD hybrid disc on Explorer after HD format layer has
been selected.

By the wasy, ...
--------
If you want to access the files of the first session,
you will have to 'unmount' the second session and mount
the first session.
--------
Why do we use Multi-Session?

Best regards,

Keiji Katata
PIONEER CORP.








*
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
* 'info t10' (no quotes) in the message body to majordomo at t10.org





More information about the T10 mailing list