Serial Attached SCSI connection

Kevin Khuu kevin98146 at hotmail.com
Thu Apr 22 19:08:34 PDT 2004


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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
*
Hi experts,
I'm working on a SAS backplane which has 6 connectors to support 6 hard 
drives.  The question I have is how the connectors on the backplane 
connected to the SAS bus.  Are they daily-chained just like they are on a 
regular pararell SCSI backplane?

Thanks,
Kevin

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From: "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
To: t10 at t10.org
Subject: Serial Attached SCSI connection
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:09:05 -0700
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
*
Hi experts,
I'm working on a SAS backplane which has 6 connectors to support 6 hard 
drives.  The question I have is how the connectors on the backplane 
connected to the SAS bus.  Are they daily-chained just like they are on a 
regular pararell SCSI backplane?  And does SAS bus need termination at the 
end of the bus?

Thanks,
Kevin

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Subject: Re: Serial Attached SCSI connection
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Gerry.Houlder at seagate.com
*

SAS is designed as a point to point interface, like SATA is. Daisy chaining
two or more devices like parallel SCSI will not work. You need to consider
how many separate connections are provided by the host bus adaptor. If you
need more drives than connection provided by the HBA than SAS expanders
must be designed into the system. You will need to read and become familiar
with the SAS protocol specification to see how these things interact.



                                                                                                                       
                      "Kevin Khuu"                                                                                     
                      <kevin98146 at hotma        To:       t10 at t10.org                                                   
                      il.com>                  cc:                                                                     
                      Sent by:                 Subject:  Serial Attached SCSI connection                               
                      owner-t10 at t10.org                                                                                
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
*
Hi experts,
I'm working on a SAS backplane which has 6 connectors to support 6 hard
drives.  The question I have is how the connectors on the backplane
connected to the SAS bus.  Are they daily-chained just like they are on a
regular pararell SCSI backplane?  And does SAS bus need termination at the
end of the bus?

Thanks,
Kevin

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(Report generated on 2004/04/25 at 00:00:32)
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From: "Kido Shogo" <kido-sxa at necst.nec.co.jp>
To: <t10 at t10.org>
Subject: SAS1.1 CJTPAT
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:51:01 +0900
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Kido Shogo" <kido-sxa at necst.nec.co.jp>
*
Hi all,

I have some questions about AnnexA compliant jitter test pattern (CJTPAT)
in SAS-1.1 rev4.

I would like to make clear abvout CJTPAT of the expander.


case:1     Expander:A  ----- target device:B

I understand the usage of the CJTPAT in this case are follows. 
If my understanding is wrong, please let me know.

0. Expander:A becomes a CJTPAT mode by SMP or the other way.
    Target deicve:B is a normal mode.  
1. Expander:A sends ssp command frame(write command).
2. Target device:B sends ssp xfer_rdy frame.
3. Expander:A sends ssp data frame(CJTPAT).
4. It repeats CJTPAT.   
5. Traget device:B sends ssp response frame.

 
case:2     Expander:A ---- HBA:B

I do not understand the usage of the CJTPAT in this case.
Please let me know.


case:3     Expander:A ---- Expander:B

I do not understand the usage of the CJTPAT in this case.
Please let me know.


Thanks,
  Shogo Kido
  NEC System Technologies, Ltd.
  External:(+81)89-947-7901


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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "David Peterson \(Eng\)" <david_peterson at cnt.com>
*
Kevin,

I've added the items below to the FCP-3 agenda as T10/04-132r0.

Thanks...Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: kdbutt at cox.net [mailto:kdbutt at cox.net] 
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 7:18 AM
To: David Peterson (Eng); t10 at t10.org; kdbutt at us.ibm.com
Subject: FCP-3 Agenda Item Suggestions

Please respond to kdbutt at us.ibm.com

I have some suggested discussion items for FCP WG related to FCP-3r3a:

1)
In the description of the SRR:
<<
Addressing:
The S_ID field designates the initiator requesting the information
retransmission. The D_ID field designates the target that is to receive
the request. In the event that the target responds to the SRR with an
FCP FC-4 Link Service Reject, the target shall return CHECK CONDITION
status with the sense key set to HARDWARE ERROR and an additional sense
code of INITIATOR DETECTED ERROR MESSAGE RECEIVED.
>>
Calling out a sense key of HARDWARE ERROR is a bad idea.  When customers
see a sense key 4 they assume bad hardware and automatically return the
drive.  This creates increased field support costs resulting in No
Defect Found conditions.  A different Sense Key needs to be used, and I
suggest COMMAND ABORTED.

2)
Please add a statement to SRR that indicates that when a target receives
an SRR request for status that it is allowed for the target to
retransmit the data as well as the status and that the host shall
replace the data with the new data received.  This request stems from
conditions where the target can only detect certain errors (e.g. CRC
Error) after the data has already been transmitted.  If we can resolve
the method for getting the correct data to the host then we can increase
the likelihood of success.

The new text in 12.4.1.5 FCP_RSP IU Recovery would be that indicated by
<< ... >>:

When an error in transmitting an FCP_RSP IU is detected, the initiator
shall issue an SRR FC-4 Link Service frame in a new Exchange to request
retransmission of the FCP_RSP IU. The target shall first transmit the
ACC for the SRR, then shall retransmit << either >> the FCP_RSP IU << or
FCP_DATA IUs and FCP_RSP IU >> in a new Sequence.


3)
<<
11.5 Read Exchange Concise Time-out Value (REC_TOV) REC_TOV is used by
the initiator to provide a minimum polling interval for REC and by the
target for FCP_CONF IU error detection. The REC_TOV timer shall be
implemented such that at least one REC_TOV period passes between
transmission of a command and the first polling for Exchange status with
the REC Extended Link Service.
>>
Can we state that the first REC may optionally be sent prior to REC_TOV
but that subsequent RECs will be REC_TOV?
The reason for this is that many HBAs will use E_D_TOV for their first
REC and Targets may wish to use a short time for response to an FCP_CONF
IU.
The reason for short timeouts for FCP_CONF IUs would be that they are
almost instantaneous and if not then we are in an ERP state.  Also, if
we change the requirement such that if an initiator receives a REC when
it has an open exchange, but before it receives an FCP_RSP_IU that it
shall initiate a REC to determine the state of the Exchange, then the
target would be able to tell the initiator that it needs recovered.  We
noticed that some initiators would respond to the REC in such a way that
the target would end up waiting RR_TOV before being able to free up the
exchange.

4)
The following text in 12.4.1.5 FCP_RSP IU Recovery is a little
confusing.  I read it to mean that an exchange is being recovered where
a check condition ocurred but the FCP_RSP IU was lost.  In this case the
target is being told to try an FCP_XFER_RDY IU unless the original
command did not intend to transfer data.
I am confused as to how the target can attempt to send an FCP_XFER_RDY
IU after it has already terminated the transfer with a CHECK CONDITION.
Does this paragraph intend to talk about a single exchange or multiple
exchanges that get confused?
I think this needs to be modified such that the intent of this paragraph
is clear.

An Exchange carrying a command that was terminated by a CHECK CONDITION
requesting an FCP_CONF IU prior to transferring data may have the same
REC values as an Exchange carrying a command having an FCP_XFER_RDY IU
not received by the initiator. For a command transferring data from the
initiator to the target with a non-zero FCP_DL, the parameters for the
SRR shall indicate that an FCP_XFER_RDY IU is expected from the target.
The target is aware of the actual present state of the transfer and
response and shall either retry the FCP_XFER_RDY IU or, if the actual
data transfer length for the command was zero, retry the FCP_RSP IU.

5)
In 12.4.1.5 FCP_RSP IU Recovery clause the changes inside << ... >> need
to be made:

The Exchange information retained shall include data transfer
information, data descriptors, and FCP_RSP IU information.
If retransmission is enabled between the initiator and target, FCP_RSP
IU information shall be:
a) discarded RR_TOV after the FCP_RSP IU was transmitted to the
initiator; or,
b) discarded after a new Exchange with the same OX_ID << change 'and' to
',' >> S_ID << and task retry identification >> is received.

6)
Due to differing values of RR_TOV in various versions of FCP_2, it is
unsafe to use the larger value of RR_TOV in some areas and unsafe to use
the smaller value in others.  This has resulted in some vendors being
unwilling to use the most current RR_TOV values and thereby causing an
inability to perform second level error recovery.
Additionally, RR_TOV may be modified by a Mode Page at any time.  A
method is needed to ensure that both the initiator and target are using
the same RR_TOV.  Since the mode page is involved and can be modified at
any time by an application there is no safe way for the initiator to use
the mode page to get this value.
I suggest we add a new FC4LS either:
a) specifically for RR_TOV information called Request RR_TOV Value (RRV)
that returns the RR_TOV in seconds or
b) for an exchange of FC4 support information and call the request
Request FC4 Information (RFI) and the response
FC4 Information (FI).
The RFI would request the FI be sent.  If no response in REC_TOV the
error recovery would be to ABTS is then resend a vendor specific number
of times.
The FI would contain the RR_TOV value and any other FC4 information we
decide on - perhaps with spare fields.
The FI would be sent in response to an RFI and in response to any FC4
event that causes a change in the supported fields.

7)
Table 20 - task management Flags does not mention QUERY TASK.  A comment
should be made as to support or non-support of the QUERY TASK function.
I would suggest a comment to the effect that the QUERY TASK function is
not supported as QUERY TASK since the REC mechanism performs this
function in FCP, but REC give the HBA a method but it does not give the
application a method.  The QUERY TASK could provide that.  I have had
several customers ask me if something like this is available.

8)
In 12.4.1.7 FCP_DATA IU Recovery - Read, indicating a HARDWARE ERROR
sense key is a bad idea as previously described.

9)
12.5.2 REC
If a response to an REC is not received within 2 times R_A_TOVELS, the
initiator shall:
1) send an ABTS(Exchange) for the REC followed by an RRQ if a BA_ACC is
received for the ABTS; and
2) send another REC in a new Exchange.
If the response to the second REC is not received within 2 times
R_A_TOVELS, the initiator should send an
ABTS(Exchange) for the REC followed by an RRQ if a BA_ACC is received
for the ABTS;

RR_TOV was defined as:
If RETRY bit is set to 1:
>= REC_TOV +
2xR_A_TOVELS + 1 sec.
for the reason of being able to successfully perform second level error
recovery.  However, the above description for REC has the initiator wait
2xR_A_TOVELS leaving only REC_TOV+1 sec for step 2.  The final sentence
quoted above specifies 2xR_A_TOVELS for the second REC.  That adds up to
4*R_A_TOVELS for second level error recovery.
In seconds that means there is specified 40 seconds for second level
error recovery to be performed but RR_TOV is defined as >= 24 seconds.

In FCP-2r7 the time to wait is only R_A_TOVELS and RR_TOV is defined as
3*REC_TOV+1:
12.5.2 REC
If a response to an REC is not received within R_A_TOVELS, the initiator
shall:
1) send an ABTS(Exchange) for the REC followed by an RRQ if a BA_ACC is
received for the ABTS; and
2) send another REC in a new Exchange.
If the response to the second REC is not received within R_A_TOVELS, the
initiator should send an
ABTS(Exchange) for the REC followed by an RRQ if a BA_ACC is received
for the ABTS; Other retry mechanisms after the second REC fails are
optional and, if implemented, shall comply with FC-FS
ABTS(Exchange) may be required to clear resources associated with the
original failing Exchange if the retry mechanisms are not successful.

The changes to clause 12.5.2 REC in Second Level Error Recovery and the
definitions of RR_TOV seem to be fighting each other.  Why was 12.5.2
time changed to 2xR_A_TOVELS?  It should be changed back to 1xR_A_TOVELS
so RR_TOV does not clean up the exchange prior to the conclusion of
this.  Extending RR_TOV to greater than it already is, is not a viable
solution.  Existing devices have ULP timeout values as low as 30
seconds.  Also, there are application clients that will not wait 45
seconds for response to some commands (e.g. INQ).  If those commands
fail the device is considered offline and no further communication will
be attempted.



*
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From: Gil Romo <gil.romo at qlogic.com>
Reply-To: Gil Romo <gil.romo at qlogic.com>
Subject: SAS Expander: ECM Confirmation Arbitrating (Normal)
To: t10 at t10.org
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Gil Romo <gil.romo at qlogic.com>
*
Subclause 4.6.3 lists the main functions of the ECM.  Obviously, this list also 
defines sequence of operations.

The generation of ECM confirmations and expander primitives depends on this 
sequence.

For example, if an expander must reject an OPEN Address Frame, shall it send Arb 
Reject (...) and never send Arbitrating (Normal)?  It doesn't make sense for an 
invalid OPEN Address frame to participate in arbitration.

However, Table 11 states an Arbitrating (Normal) confirmation is sent when "the 
ECM has received the Request Path request".

Note here the description of AIP (NORMAL), "Expander device has accepted the 
connection request... ".

Perhaps a better wording for the description of Arbitrating (Normal) is, "the 
ECM has begun path arbitration including the Request Path request".

------------
Gilbert Romo
Circuits & Integration
QLogic Corporation, Aliso Viejo, California
Office: 949-389-6266
E-mail: gil.romo at qlogic.com

*
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 Normal 0 DocumentEmail Ref: 04-115r1 SAS-1.1 Miscellaneous changes       The statement “If a receiver sees CREDIT_BLOCKED at unexpected times, it shall honor it.“ means:   A: The sender ignores all the outstanding RRDYs and stops sending frames.   B: The sender continue sending frames as long as credit is available, then assumes there will be no more RRDYs during this connection.   Arie Krantz QLogic Corporation   


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From: "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
To: t10 at t10.org
Subject: URENT HELP! SAS 4 Lane Internal Serial Attached Connector
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:18:45 -0700
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
*
I know this SAS 4 Lane Internal Serial Attached connector has 32 pins, but I 
do not have the "signals" pinout of this connector.  Could someone please 
send me the signals pinout of this connector or point me to where I can get 
the info?

Thanks,
Kevin

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To: "Leon Krantz" <leon.krantz at qlogic.com>
Cc: owner-t10 at t10.org, t10 at t10.org
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Subject: Re: Questions on CREDIT_BLOCKED
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Leon, 

04-115 is a proposal that has not yet been discussed at any t10 working group and as such it should not be assumed that it will be accepted as currently written. There are many questions about how CREDIT_BLOCKED should be handled under the conditions listed in the proposal and the answer may not be the one being proposed. So, at this time, there is no definitive answer to your question only opinions. 

Bye for now,
 George Penokie
 
Dept 2C6  114-2 N212
 E-Mail:    gop at us.ibm.com
 Internal:  553-5208
 External: 507-253-5208   FAX: 507-253-2880
 



;Leon Krantz; <leon.krantz at qlogic.com> 
Sent by: owner-t10 at t10.org 04/26/2004 01:58 PM To
 <t10 at t10.org> cc
 Subject
 Questions on CREDIT_BLOCKED 




Ref: 04-115r1 SAS-1.1 Miscellaneous changes       The statement ;If a receiver sees CREDIT_BLOCKED at unexpected times, it shall honor it.; means:   A: The sender ignores all the outstanding RRDYs and stops sending frames.   B: The sender continue sending frames as long as credit is available, then assumes there will be no more RRDYs during this connection.   Arie Krantz QLogic Corporation   
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Subject: RE: Questions on CREDIT_BLOCKED
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:18:59 -0500
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From: "Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)" <elliott at hp.com>
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)" <elliott at hp.com>
*
That's sentence is in the introduction to the issue, not the proposed
text.  That question one of the reasons for the proposal :-) 

B) matches the current state machine wording (in one place).    If the
group wants it to mean A) then:

7.16.7.4
...
When transmit frame credit is not available and transmit frame credit is
blocked, this state machine shall send the Tx Credit Status (Credit
Blocked) message to the SSP_TF2:Tx_Wait state.

needs to change to:
When transmit frame credit is blocked, this state machine shall send the
Tx Credit Status (Credit Blocked) message to the SSP_TF2:Tx_Wait state.


-- 
Rob Elliott, elliott at hp.com 
Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology 
https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott 


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] On Behalf Of Leon
Krantz
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 1:58 PM
To: t10 at t10.org
Subject: Questions on CREDIT_BLOCKED


Ref: 04-115r1 SAS-1.1 Miscellaneous changes
 
 
 
The statement "If a receiver sees CREDIT_BLOCKED at unexpected times, it
shall honor it." means:
 
A: The sender ignores all the outstanding RRDYs and stops sending
frames.
 
B: The sender continue sending frames as long as credit is available,
then assumes there will be no more RRDYs during this connection.
 
Arie Krantz
QLogic Corporation
 
*
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
* 'info t10' (no quotes) in the message body to majordomo at t10.org
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Subject: RE: URENT HELP! SAS 4 Lane Internal Serial Attached Connector
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:34:45 -0500
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Thread-Topic: URENT HELP! SAS 4 Lane Internal Serial Attached Connector
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From: "Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)" <elliott at hp.com>
To: "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>, <t10 at t10.org>
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)" <elliott at hp.com>
*

> * From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
> * "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
> *
> I know this SAS 4 Lane Internal Serial Attached connector has 
> 32 pins, but I do not have the "signals" pinout of this
> connector.  Could someone please send me the signals pinout 
> of this connector or point me to where I can get the info?
> 
> Thanks,
> Kevin

03-240r1 has the current proposed signal assignments.  See
http://www.t10.org/doc03.htm.  Notice they are different for the
controller and backplane.


--
Rob Elliott, elliott at hp.com
Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology
https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott

*
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
* 'info t10' (no quotes) in the message body to majordomo at t10.org
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Subject: Re: URENT HELP! SAS 4 Lane Internal Serial Attached Connector
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Kevin, 

It has not yet been defined. 

Bye for now,
 George Penokie
 
Dept 2C6  114-2 N212
 E-Mail:    gop at us.ibm.com
 Internal:  553-5208
 External: 507-253-5208   FAX: 507-253-2880
 



;Kevin Khuu; <kevin98146 at hotmail.com> 
Sent by: owner-t10 at t10.org 04/26/2004 02:18 PM To
 t10 at t10.org cc
 Subject
 URENT HELP! SAS 4 Lane Internal Serial Attached Connector 




* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
 * ;Kevin Khuu; <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
 *
 I know this SAS 4 Lane Internal Serial Attached connector has 32 pins, but I 
do not have the ;signals; pinout of this connector.  Could someone please 
send me the signals pinout of this connector or point me to where I can get 
the info?
 
Thanks,
 Kevin
 
_________________________________________________________________
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*
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Subject: RE: URENT HELP! SAS 4 Lane Internal Serial Attached Connector
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:42:45 -0700
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From: "Sheffield, Robert L" <robert.l.sheffield at intel.com>
To: "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>, <t10 at t10.org>
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Sheffield, Robert L" <robert.l.sheffield at intel.com>
*
Kevin,

See http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.03/03-240r1.pdf.

This revision was recently posted.
Is this to be on the agenda for next week's SAS protocol WG?

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] On Behalf Of Kevin
Khuu
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 12:19 PM
To: t10 at t10.org
Subject: URENT HELP! SAS 4 Lane Internal Serial Attached Connector


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
*
I know this SAS 4 Lane Internal Serial Attached connector has 32 pins,
but I 
do not have the "signals" pinout of this connector.  Could someone
please 
send me the signals pinout of this connector or point me to where I can
get 
the info?

Thanks,
Kevin

_________________________________________________________________
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Storage! 
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*
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* 'info t10' (no quotes) in the message body to majordomo at t10.org
*
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
* 'info t10' (no quotes) in the message body to majordomo at t10.org
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From: "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
To: elliott at hp.com, t10 at t10.org
Subject: RE: URENT HELP! SAS 4 Lane Internal Serial Attached Connector
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 06:56:06 -0700
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<x-flowed>
* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
*
Rob,
Thanks for the info.  It's exactly what I was looking for.
There's a typo on the pin assignment in Table 999.  I think pin G27 should 
be G26 because there's already a S27.
Also, I know the sideband signals are vendor specific.  I currently do not 
know which cable we will be using.  What would I do with these sideband pins 
on my backplane? Not connected?

Thanks,
Kevin


>From: "Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)" <elliott at hp.com>
>To: "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>, <t10 at t10.org>
>Subject: RE: URENT HELP! SAS 4 Lane Internal Serial Attached Connector
>Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:34:45 -0500
>
>
> > * From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
> > * "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
> > *
> > I know this SAS 4 Lane Internal Serial Attached connector has
> > 32 pins, but I do not have the "signals" pinout of this
> > connector.  Could someone please send me the signals pinout
> > of this connector or point me to where I can get the info?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kevin
>
>03-240r1 has the current proposed signal assignments.  See
>http://www.t10.org/doc03.htm.  Notice they are different for the
>controller and backplane.
>
>
>--
>Rob Elliott, elliott at hp.com
>Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology
>https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott
>

_________________________________________________________________
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN 
Premium! 
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*
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From: "Evans, Mark" <Mark_Evans at maxtor.com>
To: "'Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)'" <elliott at hp.com>, t10 at t10.org
Subject: RE: Questions on CREDIT_BLOCKED
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:48:14 -0700
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Evans, Mark" <Mark_Evans at maxtor.com>
*
Hi Rob,

I think that, by not prohibiting the behavior, the standard strongly implies
that an SSP port may use the RRDY credits that it's already received even
after receiving a CREDIT_BLOCKED.  I've looked at all of the occurrences of
CREDIT_BLOCKED in the standard, and I think you're oversimplifying the issue
by saying that only one thing would need to be changed to define behavior
"A".  Since none of the other places in the standard say anything about
"...and once you receive a CREDIT_BLOCKED you shall not use any of the RRDYs
you've already received...", the strong implication is that the previously
received RRDY credits MAY be used.

I don't have a major problem with your item 1 ("CREDIT_BLOCKED shall not be
sent while previous RRDY credits are still available for use."), so long as
you don't force the recipient to interpret this as an error condition.
However, I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve with this, and I
do think that what you propose is more restrictive than it needs to be.  If
an SSP port sent one or more RRDYs, then it had allocated the buffer space
for the frames.  If it's out of buffer space and doesn't expect to have more
soon, it could immediately send CREDIT_BLOCKED allowing the recipient to
send a DONE immediately after the last frame saving a little time in closing
the connection.

Anyhow, I expect we'll talk more about this next week.

Regards,

Mark Evans
Maxtor Corporation

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:elliott at hp.com] 
Sent:	Monday, April 26, 2004 1:19 PM
To:	t10 at t10.org
Subject:	RE: Questions on CREDIT_BLOCKED

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)" <elliott at hp.com>
*
That's sentence is in the introduction to the issue, not the proposed
text.  That question one of the reasons for the proposal :-) 

B) matches the current state machine wording (in one place).    If the
group wants it to mean A) then:

7.16.7.4
...
When transmit frame credit is not available and transmit frame credit is
blocked, this state machine shall send the Tx Credit Status (Credit
Blocked) message to the SSP_TF2:Tx_Wait state.

needs to change to:
When transmit frame credit is blocked, this state machine shall send the
Tx Credit Status (Credit Blocked) message to the SSP_TF2:Tx_Wait state.


-- 
Rob Elliott, elliott at hp.com 
Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology 
https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott 


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] On Behalf Of Leon
Krantz
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 1:58 PM
To: t10 at t10.org
Subject: Questions on CREDIT_BLOCKED


Ref: 04-115r1 SAS-1.1 Miscellaneous changes
 
 
 
The statement "If a receiver sees CREDIT_BLOCKED at unexpected times, it
shall honor it." means:
 
A: The sender ignores all the outstanding RRDYs and stops sending
frames.
 
B: The sender continue sending frames as long as credit is available,
then assumes there will be no more RRDYs during this connection.
 
Arie Krantz
QLogic Corporation
 
*
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Alvin.Cox at seagate.com
*
 Document: T10/04-138r0
     Item: SAS PHY working group proposed agenda 5/3/2004 (04-138) [Cox]
      URL: ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-138r0.pdf


Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Tel 405-350-7424
Fax 405-324-3067
Cell 405-206-4809
E-Mail  alvin.cox at seagate.com


*
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From: "Johnson, Stephen B." <Stephen.B.Johnson at lsil.com>
To: T10 at t10.org
Subject: RE: SCSI to ATA Translation Study Group meeting
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:09:55 -0600
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Johnson, Stephen B." <Stephen.B.Johnson at lsil.com>
*

 ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-136r0.pdf

Document 04-136r0 is now available on the reflector.
We will begin review of this at the May 4 meeting.

See you then.
Steve


Steve Johnson
LSI Logic
719 533 7511
sjohnson at lsil.com





-----Original Message-----
From: John Lohmeyer [mailto:lohmeyer at t10.org]
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 9:50 AM
To: T10 Reflector
Subject: SCSI to ATA Translation Study Group meeting


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <lohmeyer at t10.org>
*
A new study group has formed to examine the idea of developing a standard or
technical report on translating SCSI commands to ATA devices. The group will
meet Tuesday morning May 4th in Monterey, CA. Steve Johnson
<sjohnson at lsil.com> has agreed to lead this meeting. Meeting information is
available at:

  http://www.t10.org/meeting.htm

Anyone interested in this topic is welcome to participate. Hotel space is
limited, so make your room reservations now.



--
John Lohmeyer                  Email: lohmeyer at t10.org
LSI Logic Corp.                Voice: +1-719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr.
Colo Spgs, CO 80907

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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "David Hawks" <Hawks at iomega.com>
*
Hello,

We have run into a confusing area of the SPC-3 specification regarding
sense data.  I am referring specifically to the descriptions of the
INFORMATION and COMMAND-SPECIFIC INFORMATION fields.

Section 4.5.3 describes the "Fixed sense data format".  Here we are
directed to section 4.5.2.2 for the description of the four-byte
INFORMATION field.

Section 4.5.2.2 is the definition of the "Information sense data
descriptor".  This descriptor contains an eight byte INFORMATION field.
The INFORMATION field is described as below (from SPC-3 Revision 18):

The contents of the INFORMATION field are device-type or command
specific and are defined in a command
standard (see 3.1.17). When a four byte quantity is stored in the
INFORMATION field, the first four bytes shall be zero.

Because the INFORMATION field in the "Information sense data descriptor"
is eight bytes, this makes sense.  However, when referring to this
section for the four byte INFORMATION field of the "Fixed sense data
format", setting the first four bytes to zero does not work.  The same
problem exists for the COMMAND-SPECIFIC INFORMATION field in section
4.5.2.3.


Regards,
David Hawks
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From: "Johnson, Stephen B." <Stephen.B.Johnson at lsil.com>
To: t10 at t10.org
Subject: Dual Ported SAS targets Phy Identifier
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:02:36 -0600
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Johnson, Stephen B." <Stephen.B.Johnson at lsil.com>
*

Does anyone know if dual ported SAS targets will have a unique phy
identifier for each port
or will they be the same?

Thanks for any information,

Steve

Steve Johnson
LSI Logic
719 533 7511
sjohnson at lsil.com



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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* <Kevin_Marks at Dell.com>
*
Per the SAS spec, they shall be different. The Phy Identifier is unique
within the device, regardless of number of ports. 

It does seem strange to me that this is a requirement for all devices. I
can see the need for it being unique within an expander or SAS port, but
not device. Since the Phy Identifier is used mostly for discovery and
Phy Control, which is generally SAS Address + Phy Identifier.

Kevin


Kevin Marks ( Kevin_Marks at Dell.com )
Storage Architecture and Technologies


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] On Behalf Of Johnson,
Stephen B.
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:03 PM
To: t10 at t10.org
Subject: Dual Ported SAS targets Phy Identifier

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Johnson, Stephen B." <Stephen.B.Johnson at lsil.com>
*

Does anyone know if dual ported SAS targets will have a unique phy
identifier for each port
or will they be the same?

Thanks for any information,

Steve

Steve Johnson
LSI Logic
719 533 7511
sjohnson at lsil.com



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Subject: +3.3V requirement for SAS device
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
*
In addition to +12V and +5V, does SAS device also need +3.3V?

Thanks,
Kevin

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Subject: Re: +3.3V requirement for SAS device
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Alvin.Cox at seagate.com
*

With the current specification, it is allowable that a SAS device requires
3.3V. The same condition is true for SATA.

Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Tel 405-350-7424
Fax 405-324-3067
Cell 405-206-4809
E-Mail  alvin.cox at seagate.com


                                                                                                                                       
                      "Kevin Khuu"                                                                                                     
                      <kevin98146 at hotma        To:       t10 at t10.org                                                                   
                      il.com>                  cc:                                                                                     
                      Sent by:                 Subject:  +3.3V requirement for SAS device                                              
                      owner-t10 at t10.org                                                                                                
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                      04/29/2004 10:12                                                                                                 
                      AM                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       




* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
*
In addition to +12V and +5V, does SAS device also need +3.3V?

Thanks,
Kevin

_________________________________________________________________
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From: <Frank_Widjaja at Dell.com>
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* <Frank_Widjaja at Dell.com>
*
I have commitment from all SAS Hard Drive Vendors that 3.3V shall never
be used.
Most 3.5" SATA Hard Drive will not use 3.3V in the near future.
We are debating about dropping the 3.3V from SAS connector.


>Regards, 
>Frank Widjaja 
	Enterprise HDD Engineering
>Phone: (512)-728-3877 
>Pager: (877)-375-9181
><http://www.arch.com/message/> 
>

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] On Behalf Of
Alvin.Cox at seagate.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 12:31 PM
To: kevin98146 at hotmail.com
Cc: owner-t10 at t10.org; t10 at t10.org
Subject: Re: +3.3V requirement for SAS device

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Alvin.Cox at seagate.com
*

With the current specification, it is allowable that a SAS device
requires 3.3V. The same condition is true for SATA.

Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Tel 405-350-7424
Fax 405-324-3067
Cell 405-206-4809
E-Mail  alvin.cox at seagate.com


 

                      "Kevin Khuu"

                      <kevin98146 at hotma        To:       t10 at t10.org

                      il.com>                  cc:

                      Sent by:                 Subject:  +3.3V
requirement for SAS device                                              
                      owner-t10 at t10.org

                      No Phone Info

                      Available

 

                      04/29/2004 10:12

                      AM

 

 





* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
*
In addition to +12V and +5V, does SAS device also need +3.3V?

Thanks,
Kevin

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Subject: RE: +3.3V requirement for SAS device
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Cc: kevin98146 at hotmail.com, t10 at t10.org
X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.11   July 24, 2002
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:58:55 -0500
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Alvin.Cox at seagate.com
*

For SATA compatibility we cannot drop the 3.3V from the SAS connector.
Whether SAS devices will use 3.3V is the question and it is currently
allowed. SAS devices are not restricted to hard drives.

Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Tel 405-350-7424
Fax 405-324-3067
Cell 405-206-4809
E-Mail  alvin.cox at seagate.com


                                                                                                                                       
                      <Frank_Widjaja at De                                                                                                
                      ll.com>                  To:       <Alvin.Cox at seagate.com>, <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>                             
                      No Phone Info            cc:       <owner-t10 at t10.org>, <t10 at t10.org>                                            
                      Available                Subject:  RE: +3.3V requirement for SAS device                                          
                                                                                                                                       
                      04/29/2004 01:34                                                                                                 
                      PM                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       




I have commitment from all SAS Hard Drive Vendors that 3.3V shall never
be used.
Most 3.5" SATA Hard Drive will not use 3.3V in the near future.
We are debating about dropping the 3.3V from SAS connector.


>Regards,
>Frank Widjaja
             Enterprise HDD Engineering
>Phone: (512)-728-3877
>Pager: (877)-375-9181
><http://www.arch.com/message/>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] On Behalf Of
Alvin.Cox at seagate.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 12:31 PM
To: kevin98146 at hotmail.com
Cc: owner-t10 at t10.org; t10 at t10.org
Subject: Re: +3.3V requirement for SAS device

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Alvin.Cox at seagate.com
*

With the current specification, it is allowable that a SAS device
requires 3.3V. The same condition is true for SATA.

Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Tel 405-350-7424
Fax 405-324-3067
Cell 405-206-4809
E-Mail  alvin.cox at seagate.com




                      "Kevin Khuu"

                      <kevin98146 at hotma        To:       t10 at t10.org

                      il.com>                  cc:

                      Sent by:                 Subject:  +3.3V
requirement for SAS device
                      owner-t10 at t10.org

                      No Phone Info

                      Available



                      04/29/2004 10:12

                      AM









* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
*
In addition to +12V and +5V, does SAS device also need +3.3V?

Thanks,
Kevin

_________________________________________________________________
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*
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<x-flowed>
* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
*
As a SAS backplane designer, would you make +3.3V available to the SAS 
connectors which SAS devices plugged into?  Pins P1 and P2 on the SAS 
internal connector are +3.3V.

-Kevin


>From: Alvin.Cox at seagate.com
>To: kevin98146 at hotmail.com
>CC: owner-t10 at t10.org, t10 at t10.org
>Subject: Re: +3.3V requirement for SAS device
>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:31:05 -0500
>
>
>With the current specification, it is allowable that a SAS device requires
>3.3V. The same condition is true for SATA.
>
>Alvin Cox
>Seagate Technology, LLC
>Tel 405-350-7424
>Fax 405-324-3067
>Cell 405-206-4809
>E-Mail  alvin.cox at seagate.com
>
>
>
>                       "Kevin Khuu"
>                       <kevin98146 at hotma        To:       t10 at t10.org
>                       il.com>                  cc:
>                       Sent by:                 Subject:  +3.3V requirement 
>for SAS device
>                       owner-t10 at t10.org
>                       No Phone Info
>                       Available
>
>                       04/29/2004 10:12
>                       AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
>* "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
>*
>In addition to +12V and +5V, does SAS device also need +3.3V?
>
>Thanks,
>Kevin
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: RE: +3.3V requirement for SAS device
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:15:31 -0400
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From: "Bissonette, Bill" <bill.bissonette at intel.com>
To: <Frank_Widjaja at Dell.com>, <Alvin.Cox at seagate.com>,
        <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
Cc: <t10 at t10.org>
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Bissonette, Bill" <bill.bissonette at intel.com>
*

There is a conversation percolating in the SATA II WG around this issue.
Essentially HDDs that target the mobile market tend to use 3.3V and 5V,
but desktop and enterprise drives use 5V and 12V.  The question from
server-type providers is, "Do we need to put 3.3V on the backplane if
only non-mobile type drives will be used?"  The subject has not settled
yet, but there is consideration of some type of classification
nomenclature for drives that makes can make it simpler for the enclosure
manufacturer to specify whether low-voltage drives are supported or not.
Worth considering in SAS land? 

-- Bill 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] On Behalf Of
Frank_Widjaja at Dell.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 2:34 PM
To: Alvin.Cox at seagate.com; kevin98146 at hotmail.com
Cc: owner-t10 at t10.org; t10 at t10.org
Subject: RE: +3.3V requirement for SAS device

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* <Frank_Widjaja at Dell.com>
*
I have commitment from all SAS Hard Drive Vendors that 3.3V shall never
be used.
Most 3.5" SATA Hard Drive will not use 3.3V in the near future.
We are debating about dropping the 3.3V from SAS connector.


>Regards, 
>Frank Widjaja 
	Enterprise HDD Engineering
>Phone: (512)-728-3877 
>Pager: (877)-375-9181
><http://www.arch.com/message/> 
>

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org] On Behalf Of
Alvin.Cox at seagate.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 12:31 PM
To: kevin98146 at hotmail.com
Cc: owner-t10 at t10.org; t10 at t10.org
Subject: Re: +3.3V requirement for SAS device

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Alvin.Cox at seagate.com
*

With the current specification, it is allowable that a SAS device
requires 3.3V. The same condition is true for SATA.

Alvin Cox
Seagate Technology, LLC
Tel 405-350-7424
Fax 405-324-3067
Cell 405-206-4809
E-Mail  alvin.cox at seagate.com


 

                      "Kevin Khuu"

                      <kevin98146 at hotma        To:       t10 at t10.org

                      il.com>                  cc:

                      Sent by:                 Subject:  +3.3V
requirement for SAS device                                              
                      owner-t10 at t10.org

                      No Phone Info

                      Available

 

                      04/29/2004 10:12

                      AM

 

 





* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
*
In addition to +12V and +5V, does SAS device also need +3.3V?

Thanks,
Kevin

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>From ???@??? Sat May 01 19:32:16 2004
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<x-flowed>
* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Ralph O. Weber" <roweber at ieee.org>
*
The first draft of the SAM-3 Letter Ballot comments resolution
has been uploaded as:

   http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.04/04-116r0.pdf

The comments with blue titles need to be discussed during the
May T10 meeting week. I anticipate that the CAP working group
will select some of the comments to discuss in that meeting.
The remainder will be discussed starting after the T10 Plenary
on Thursday afternoon.

All the best,

.Ralph



*
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* T10 Document Administrator <lohmeyer at t10.org>
*
Proposals
---------
SAS-1.1 Internal wide connector
(by: Rob Elliott)
T10/03-240r2   Uploaded: 2004/04/28   215996 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.03/03-240r2.pdf

SPC-3 Third party persistent reservations
(by: George Penokie)
T10/03-337r5   Uploaded: 2004/04/26   198751 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.03/03-337r5.pdf

SAS-1.1: Close Port Selector Detection Gap
(by: Robert Sheffield)
T10/04-029r1   Uploaded: 2004/04/30   1332079 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-029r1.pdf

SAS-1.1: Fix SP Hang States
(by: Robert Sheffield)
T10/04-030r1   Uploaded: 2004/04/30   2726364 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-030r1.pdf

SAS 1.1 UML Corrections
(by: George O. Penokie)
T10/04-042r2   Uploaded: 2004/04/28   80988 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-042r2.pdf

FCP-3, Impact of protection information on data length fields
(by: Jim Coomes)
T10/04-068r1   Uploaded: 2004/04/27   62440 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-068r1.pdf

Results of letter ballot on forwarding ADT to first public review
(by: John Lohmeyer)
T10/04-110r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/26   333404 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-110r0.pdf

Results of letter ballot on forwarding ADT to first public review
(by: John Lohmeyer)
T10/04-110r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/26   118554 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-110r0.txt

Response to T10 Letter Ballot comments on SAM-3
(by: Ralph O. Weber)
T10/04-116r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/01   502680 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-116r0.pdf

FCP-3: Working Group Agenda (5/4/04)
(by: David Peterson)
T10/04-117r1   Uploaded: 2004/04/26   10072 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-117r1.pdf

SSC-3 DTD Status Log Page
(by: Michael Banther)
T10/04-119r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/27   175697 bytes
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Agenda: ADI Meeting (3 May 2004)
(by: Michael Banther)
T10/04-121r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/27   17475 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-121r0.pdf

SPC-3 Add Preference to Report Target Port Groups
(by: Charles Binford)
T10/04-122r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/26   127409 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-122r0.pdf

SSC-3: Exclude Report LUNs from resetting Test bit
(by: Michael Banther)
T10/04-123r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/27   51042 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-123r0.pdf

SAS-1.1 OOB Data Rate @ 1,5G only
(by: Bill Lye)
T10/04-128r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/26   19719 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-128r0.pdf

FCP-3: TPRLO behavior
(by: David Peterson)
T10/04-129r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/26   14175 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-129r0.pdf

SES-2 - Array Device element Status and Control page Clarifications
(by: Kevin Marks)
T10/04-130r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/26   56868 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-130r0.pdf

FCP-3: Revsion 3a discussion items
(by: David Peterson)
T10/04-132r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/26   28307 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-132r0.pdf

SCSI to ATA Translations
(by: Steve Johnson)
T10/04-136r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/27   1011147 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-136r0.pdf

SAS-1.1, ST_T (transport layer for SSP target ports) state machines
(by: Mark Evans)
T10/04-137r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/27   132698 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-137r0.pdf

SAS PHY working group proposed agenda 5/3/2004
(by: Alvin Cox)
T10/04-138r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/27   15322 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-138r0.pdf

SAM-3; SPC-3; Allowing only Task Management Functions through ACA
(by: George O. Penokie)
T10/04-141r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/28   41508 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-141r0.pdf

T11, Fibre Channel Interfaces, Liaison Report, April 2004
(by: Robert Snively)
T10/04-142r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/30   65435 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-142r0.pdf

SAS 1.1, TCTF ISI Specification Issue
(by: Ivan Chan and Russ Brown)
T10/04-143r0   Uploaded: 2004/04/30   835779 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-143r0.pdf

Working Drafts
--------------
SCSI Primary Commands - 3 (SPC-3)
(Editor: Ralph Weber)
 Rev: 18       Uploaded: 2004/04/26   2960284 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/drafts/spc3/spc3r18.pdf


(Report generated on 2004/05/02 at 00:00:31)
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From: Ralph Weber <roweber at IEEE.org>
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To: T10 at t10.org
Subject: Re: SPC sense data problem
References: <DB78FCDE9F1F9F4886F784EE5733F2D02D000E at royntex01.iomegacorp.com>
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<x-flowed>
* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Ralph Weber <roweber at ieee.org>
*
There was an attempt to conserve wording by using cross references.
This clearly has produced unintended side effects.

I have made a note to define the INFORMATION and COMMAND-SPECIFIC
INFORMATION field definitions to eliminate the cross references
|from the fixed format to the descriptor format. The change will
appear in SPC-3 r19.

Thanks for pointing this problem out.

.Ralph

David Hawks wrote:

>* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
>* "David Hawks" <Hawks at iomega.com>
>*
>Hello,
>
>We have run into a confusing area of the SPC-3 specification regarding
>sense data.  I am referring specifically to the descriptions of the
>INFORMATION and COMMAND-SPECIFIC INFORMATION fields.
>
>Section 4.5.3 describes the "Fixed sense data format".  Here we are
>directed to section 4.5.2.2 for the description of the four-byte
>INFORMATION field.
>
>Section 4.5.2.2 is the definition of the "Information sense data
>descriptor".  This descriptor contains an eight byte INFORMATION field.
>The INFORMATION field is described as below (from SPC-3 Revision 18):
>
>The contents of the INFORMATION field are device-type or command
>specific and are defined in a command
>standard (see 3.1.17). When a four byte quantity is stored in the
>INFORMATION field, the first four bytes shall be zero.
>
>Because the INFORMATION field in the "Information sense data descriptor"
>is eight bytes, this makes sense.  However, when referring to this
>section for the four byte INFORMATION field of the "Fixed sense data
>format", setting the first four bytes to zero does not work.  The same
>problem exists for the COMMAND-SPECIFIC INFORMATION field in section
>4.5.2.3.
>
>
>Regards,
>David Hawks
>*
>* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
>* 'info t10' (no quotes) in the message body to majordomo at t10.org
>
>
>  
>



*
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
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Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 13:46:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gil Romo <gil.romo at qlogic.com>
Reply-To: Gil Romo <gil.romo at qlogic.com>
Subject: SAS Expander: ECM Confirmation Arbitrating (Normal): REPOSTED WITH CHANGES
To: t10 at t10.org
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Gil Romo <gil.romo at qlogic.com>
*
There has been no response yet on this post, so I am reposting it with some 
corrections.

* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Gil Romo <gil.romo at qlogic.com>
*
sasr104, subclause 4.6.3, lists the main functions of the ECM.  Obviously, this 
list represents a sequence of operations.

The generation of ECM confirmations and expander primitives depends on this 
sequence.

For example, if the ECM must reject a Request Path request, shall it send Arb 
Reject (...) and never send Arbitrating (Normal)?  It doesn't make sense for an 
invalid Request Path request to participate in arbitration.

However, Table 11 states an Arbitrating (Normal) confirmation is sent when "the 
ECM has received the Request Path request".

Note here the description of AIP (NORMAL), "Expander device has accepted the 
connection request... ".

Perhaps a better wording for the description of Arbitrating (Normal) is, "the 
ECM has accepted the Request Path request and has begun path arbitration".

------------
Gilbert Romo
Circuits & Integration
QLogic Corporation, Aliso Viejo, California
Office: 949-389-6266
E-mail: gil.romo at qlogic.com

*
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
* 'info t10' (no quotes) in the message body to majordomo at t10.org
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From: "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
To: t10 at t10.org
Subject: Hotplug for SAS hard drives
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 09:09:46 -0700
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<x-flowed>
* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Kevin Khuu" <kevin98146 at hotmail.com>
*
Unlike pararell SCSI connector, SAS hard drive connector doesn't have a 
"present" signal.  How would you implement hot plug for SAS?  Can I use 
"RDY_LED" (pin 11) for this purpose?

Thanks,
Kevin

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

*
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
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Subject: Consideration of major changes to ACA behavior
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From: "Robert Snively" <rsnively at Brocade.COM>
To: "T10 Reflector (E-mail)" <t10 at t10.org>
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Robert Snively" <rsnively at Brocade.COM>
*

George Penokie has presented a document T10/04-114r0 describing
some modifications to ACA behavior.  In particular, he defines a
new behavior moderated by the "Allow Task Management Function Only" 
bit that rejects all Tasks with ACA ACTIVE status.

As part of the discussion, a second question was raised that
reflects on the fundamental behavior of ACA.

It was proposed that CLEAR ACA from any Initiator Port/Target Port that
participates in the task set shall clear the ACA Condition for
that task set.  In the past, CLEAR ACA would clear the ACA Condition
only if it was performed by the Initiator Port and Target Port
through which the ACA was established.

The original mechanism allowed the notified application client 
to take the responsibility for the recovery and the termination 
of the recovery period.  Alternative mechanisms were allowed for 
the case where the I_T nexus failed.

The newly proposed mechanism allows any application client to clear
the ACA condition, regardless of whether or not it received the
original notification.  This may work as desired if the application
clients have out-of-band understandings about the proper time to
terminate an ACA, but will not work correctly if such understandings
are not established.

Please consider this question carefully and respond to the reflector.
George will use these inputs to guide his direction in the next
revision of T10/04-114.  


Robert Snively

Brocade Communications Systems, Inc.
1745 Technology Drive
San Jose, CA 95110

+1 408 333 8135
rsnively at brocade.com 
*
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
* 'info t10' (no quotes) in the message body to majordomo at t10.org
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There will be a SAS protocol teleconference call on June 3rd at 10 am central time (8 am pacific, 9 am mountain, 11 am eastern)
 The call-in information is: 
DIAL-IN NUMBERS & PASSCODES:
  USA Toll Free Number: 877-491-9488
  USA Toll Number: +1-203-310-8642
  PARTICIPANT PASSCODE: 564198 

Bye for now,
 George Penokie
 
Dept 2C6  114-2 N212
 E-Mail:    gop at us.ibm.com
 Internal:  553-5208
 External: 507-253-5208   FAX: 507-253-2880
 

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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Robert Snively" <rsnively at Brocade.COM>
*
Please note that the document number is actually 141r0, not
114r0.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org]On Behalf Of Robert
Snively
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:23 PM
To: T10 Reflector (E-mail)
Cc: Robert Snively; George Penokie (E-mail)
Subject: Consideration of major changes to ACA behavior


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Robert Snively" <rsnively at Brocade.COM>
*

George Penokie has presented a document T10/04-114r0 describing
some modifications to ACA behavior.  In particular, he defines a
new behavior moderated by the "Allow Task Management Function Only" 
bit that rejects all Tasks with ACA ACTIVE status.

As part of the discussion, a second question was raised that
reflects on the fundamental behavior of ACA.

It was proposed that CLEAR ACA from any Initiator Port/Target Port that
participates in the task set shall clear the ACA Condition for
that task set.  In the past, CLEAR ACA would clear the ACA Condition
only if it was performed by the Initiator Port and Target Port
through which the ACA was established.

The original mechanism allowed the notified application client 
to take the responsibility for the recovery and the termination 
of the recovery period.  Alternative mechanisms were allowed for 
the case where the I_T nexus failed.

The newly proposed mechanism allows any application client to clear
the ACA condition, regardless of whether or not it received the
original notification.  This may work as desired if the application
clients have out-of-band understandings about the proper time to
terminate an ACA, but will not work correctly if such understandings
are not established.

Please consider this question carefully and respond to the reflector.
George will use these inputs to guide his direction in the next
revision of T10/04-114.  


Robert Snively

Brocade Communications Systems, Inc.
1745 Technology Drive
San Jose, CA 95110

+1 408 333 8135
rsnively at brocade.com 
*
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by: * John Lohmeyer * 
Accredited Standards Committee*
InterNational Committee for Information Technology Standards (INCITS)

                                                     
Doc. No.: T10/04-133r0
                                                         
Date: May 4, 2004
                                                     
Reply to: John Lohmeyer
To:      T10 Membership
From:    Ralph Weber and John Lohmeyer
Subject: SAS Protocol WG -- May 3, 2004
         Seaside, CA

Agenda
1.     Opening Remarks
2.     Approval of Agenda
3.     Attendance and Membership
4.     Old Business
4.1      SAS 1.1, adding the Terminate Data
Transfer protocol service
(03-245r4)
[Evans]
4.2      SAS-1.1, protocol for changing driver
amplitude
(03-285r2)
[Evans]
4.3      SAS-1.1: Close Port Selector Detection
Gap
(04-029r1)
[Sheffield]
4.4      SAS 1.1 UML Corrections
(04-042r2)
[Penokie]
5.     New Business
5.1      SAS-1.1: Fix SP Hang States
(04-030r1)
[Sheffield]
5.2      SAS-1.1 Miscellaneous changes
(04-115r1)
[Elliott]
5.3      SAS-1.1, ST_T (transport layer for SSP
target ports) state machines
(04-137r0)
[Evans]
6.     Review of Recommendations
7.     Meeting Schedule
8.     Adjournment


Results of Meeting

1.     Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m. Monday, May 3,
2004. He
thanked Bob Snively of Brocade for hosting the meeting. As usual, the
people
present introduced themselves.


2.     Approval of Agenda

The draft agenda was approved with no changes.

No items were added or revised during the course of the meeting.


3.     Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum
attendance
requirements for T10 membership. Working group meetings are open to any
person
or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of work.
The
following people attended the meeting:

        
Name         
S       
Organization         Electronic
Mail Address
---------------------- -- -------------------------
-------------------------
Ms. Pat Thaler         P 
Agilent Technologies      pat_thaler at 
agilent
                                                   
dot com
Mr. Henry Wong         V 
Agilent Technologies      henry_wong2 at
agilent
                                                   
dot com
Mr. Gunter Knestele    V 
CERTANCE                 
Gunter dot Knestele at
                                                   
certance dot com
Mr. Dexter Anderson    P  Crossroads Systems,
Inc.  danderson at crossroads
                                                   
dot com
Mr. Duncan Penman      V  Data
Transit             
duncan dot penman at
                                                   
datatransit dot com
Mr. Kevin Marks        P  Dell,
Inc.               
kevin_marks at dell dot
                                                   
com
Mr. Robert H. Nixon    P 
Emulex                   
bob dot nixon at emulex
                                                   
dot com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber     P  ENDL
Texas               
roweber at ieee dot org
Mr. Gary Stephens      V  FSI Consulting
Services   grsfsi at aol dot com
Mr. Mike Fitzpatrick   P 
Fujitsu                  
mfitzpatrick at fcpa dot
                                                   
fujitsu dot com
Mr. Tim Mackley        A  General
Dynamics          timothy
dot mackley at
                                                   
gd-ais dot com
Mr. Rob Elliott        P  Hewlett
Packard Co.       Elliott at hp dot com
Mr. George O. Penokie  P  IBM / Tivoli
Systems      gop at us dot ibm dot com
Mr. Kevin Butt         V 
IBM
Corp.                
kdbutt at us dot ibm dot
                                                   
com
Mr. Robert Sheffield   P  Intel
Corp.              
robert dot l dot
                                                   
sheffield at intel dot
                                                   
com
Mr. Brian Day         
V  LSI Logic
Corp.           brian
dot day at lsil
                                                   
dot com
Mr. Tim Hoglund        V  LSI
Logic Corp.          
tim dot hoglund at lsil
                                                   
dot com
Mr. Steve Johnson      V  LSI Logic
Corp.          
sjohnson at lsil dot com
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  LSI Logic
Corp.          
lohmeyer at t10 dot org
Mr. Steven Schauer     V  LSI Logic
Corp.           steve
dot schauer at
                                                   
lsil dot com
Mr. Martin Czekalski   A  Maxtor
Corp.             
marty_czekalski at
                                                   
maxtor dot com
Mr. Mark Evans         P 
Maxtor
Corp.             
mark_evans at maxtor dot
                                                   
com
Mr. David Wong         V 
PMC-Sierra               
dave_wong at pmc-sierra
                                                   
dot com
Mr. Don Carothers      V  QLogic
Corp.             
don dot carothers at
                                                   
qlogic dot com
Mr. Greg Elkins        V  QLogic
Corp.             
greg dot elkins at
                                                   
qlogic dot com
Mr. Jim Coomes         A 
Seagate Technology        jim dot
coomes at
                                                   
seagate dot com
Mr. Dave Deming        AV Solution
Technology       ddeming at soltechnology
                                                   
dot com
Mr. Mark Miquelon      AV Vitesse
Semiconductor     miquelon at vitesse dot
                                                   
com

28 People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
            
A,A# -  Alternate
            
AV   -  Advisory Member
            
L    -  Liaison
            
V    -  Visitor


4.     Old Business

4.1    SAS 1.1, adding the Terminate Data Transfer
protocol service
(03-245r4)
[Evans]

Mark Evans requested that discussion of this topic be deferred to the
next
meeting.

4.2    SAS-1.1, protocol for changing driver amplitude
(03-285r2)
[Evans]

Mark Evans requested that discussion of this topic be deferred to the
next
meeting.

4.3    SAS-1.1: Close Port Selector Detection Gap
(04-029r1)
[Sheffield]

Bob Sheffield presented a proposal to use a new BROADCAST(CHANGE)
primitive to
interlock handling of port selectors and a new LINK RATE NOT NEGOTIATED
value
for the NEGOTIATED PHYSICAL LINK RATE field in the DISCOVER Response to
establish positive reporting of port selector presence.

Concerns were raised about definition of the proposed 4h negotiated
physical
link rate code value. The balance between dealing with normal link rate
negotiations and the requirements for supporting the inactive side of a
port
selector required careful consideration of the definition.

Bob agreed to prepare a new revision of the proposal for consideration at
the
next meeting.

4.4    SAS 1.1 UML Corrections
(04-042r2)
[Penokie]

Due to the late hour, George Penokie requested that discussion of this
topic
be deferred to the next meeting.


5.     New Business

5.1    SAS-1.1: Fix SP Hang States
(04-030r1)
[Sheffield]

Bob Sheffield presented a proposal to clearly identify SP state diagram
transitions to COMINIT
(04-030r1).
The group requested several substantial
changes and Bob agreed to prepare a new revision for consideration at the
next
meeting.

5.2    SAS-1.1 Miscellaneous changes
(04-115r1)
[Elliott]

Rob Elliott led the group in a review of several unrelated changes
(04-115r1).
The group requested numerous changes and Rob agreed to prepare a new
revision
for consideration at the next meeting.

5.3    SAS-1.1, ST_T (transport layer for SSP target
ports) state machines
(04-137r0)
[Evans]

Due to the late hour, Mark Evans requested that discussion of this topic
be
deferred to the next meeting.


6.     Review of Recommendations

The following documents were recommended for inclusion in SAS-1.1 during
this
meeting:

For inclusion in SAS-1.1: None


7.     Meeting Schedule

A SAS Protocol Working Group meeting is scheduled for:

Monday, July 12, 2004 commencing at 9:00 a.m. in Colorado Springs, CO at
the
Doubletree World Arena Hotel (719-576-8900), hosted by LSI Logic.

The group discussed holding a teleconference on June 3rd, with details to
be
arranged during the T10 Plenary meeting.

Additional teleconference calls may be announced on the T10 reflector 
as
needed.


8.     Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 8:30 p.m. on Monday May 3, 2004.






*
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Jim.Coomes at seagate.com
*
The webex information for the June 3 SAS protocol teleconference is:

Name: SAS Protocol

Meeting Password: baldeagle1

Reference the 05/06/2004 e-mail for George Penokie for the telephone
dail-in information.




*
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Subject: Draft minutes of SCSI CAP WG - May 4-5, 2004
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <lohmeyer at t10.org>
*
Due to some email snafu, I cannot email the html versions of minutes to the reflector. Therefore, I have posted the CAP minutes at the following URLs:

  http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.04/04-134r0.htm  (includes links to referenced documents)
  http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.04/04-134r0.pdf  (pretty, but no links)

Regards,
John


--
John Lohmeyer                  Email: lohmeyer at t10.org
LSI Logic Corp.                Voice: +1-719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr.
Colo Spgs, CO 80907

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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer 
*

Test email
Testing 1..2..3




*
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Jim.Coomes at seagate.com
*
Item:

3.1 04-136r0 SCSI to ATA Command Translations (Jim Coomes, Seagate)

is incorrect. It should be:

3.1 04-136r0 SCSI to ATA Command Translations (Steve Johnson, LSI Logic)

Please give Steve credit.

Jim


*
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
* 'info t10' (no quotes) in the message body to majordomo at t10.org
>From ???@??? Fri May 07 10:43:11 2004
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Subject: RE: Consideration of major changes to ACA behavior
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 07:55:53 -0700
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Thread-Topic: Consideration of major changes to ACA behavior
Thread-Index: AcQy74qrVd+M25XRS82/so2XerdDCgBUtiMQ
From: "Lawrence Chen" <LawrenceChen at MaXXan.com>
To: "Robert Snively" <rsnively at Brocade.COM>,
        "T10 Reflector (E-mail)" <t10 at t10.org>
Cc: "George Penokie (E-mail)" <gop at us.ibm.com>
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Lawrence Chen" <LawrenceChen at MaXXan.com>
*

Hi Bob and George,

My only concern is that redefining the original Clear ACA
function will probably break some devices that have already been shipped to date.
I would favor defining a new function, suchas, TClearACA (patterned after the
other misc. third party logout functionality).

Best Regards,

Lawrence Chen

Principal Member of Technical Staff (PMTS)
MaXXan Systems, Inc.

(408) 382-6427 (V)
(832) 382-6599 (F)
(408) 204-2460 (C)

LawrenceChen at maxxan.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Snively [mailto:rsnively at Brocade.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:23 PM
To: T10 Reflector (E-mail)
Cc: Robert Snively; George Penokie (E-mail)
Subject: Consideration of major changes to ACA behavior


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Robert Snively" <rsnively at Brocade.COM>
*

George Penokie has presented a document T10/04-114r0 describing
some modifications to ACA behavior.  In particular, he defines a
new behavior moderated by the "Allow Task Management Function Only" 
bit that rejects all Tasks with ACA ACTIVE status.

As part of the discussion, a second question was raised that
reflects on the fundamental behavior of ACA.

It was proposed that CLEAR ACA from any Initiator Port/Target Port that
participates in the task set shall clear the ACA Condition for
that task set.  In the past, CLEAR ACA would clear the ACA Condition
only if it was performed by the Initiator Port and Target Port
through which the ACA was established.

The original mechanism allowed the notified application client 
to take the responsibility for the recovery and the termination 
of the recovery period.  Alternative mechanisms were allowed for 
the case where the I_T nexus failed.

The newly proposed mechanism allows any application client to clear
the ACA condition, regardless of whether or not it received the
original notification.  This may work as desired if the application
clients have out-of-band understandings about the proper time to
terminate an ACA, but will not work correctly if such understandings
are not established.

Please consider this question carefully and respond to the reflector.
George will use these inputs to guide his direction in the next
revision of T10/04-114.  


Robert Snively

Brocade Communications Systems, Inc.
1745 Technology Drive
San Jose, CA 95110

+1 408 333 8135
rsnively at brocade.com 
*
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
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This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use; review, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return email and destroy all copies of the original message. 
Copyright  2004 MaXXan Systems, Inc. All rights reserved.
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Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 08:06:15 -0600
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <lohmeyer at t10.org>
*
I've posted the T10 Plenary meeting #61 minutes at:

  http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.04/04-135r0.htm  (includes links to referenced documents)
  http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.04/04-135r0.pdf  (pretty, but no links)

Regards,
John


--
John Lohmeyer                  Email: lohmeyer at t10.org
LSI Logic Corp.                Voice: +1-719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr.
Colo Spgs, CO 80907

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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* T10 Document Administrator <lohmeyer at t10.org>
*
Proposals
---------
Command Classification Field
(by: George O. Penokie)
T10/03-361r4   Uploaded: 2004/05/04   23227 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.03/03-361r4.pdf

SPC-3 Report LUNS Clarification
(by: Charles Binford)
T10/03-386r4   Uploaded: 2004/05/05   96407 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.03/03-386r4.pdf

SBC-2 Nonvolatile caches
(by: Rob Elliott)
T10/03-388r3   Uploaded: 2004/05/06   133001 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.03/03-388r3.pdf

Changing Logical Block Sizes
(by: George O. Penokie)
T10/04-011r3   Uploaded: 2004/05/06   109888 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-011r3.pdf

SAM-3: Converting to UML part 1
(by: George O. Penokie)
T10/04-023r1   Uploaded: 2004/05/05   222600 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-023r1.pdf

FCP-3, Impact of protection information on data length fields
(by: Jim Coomes)
T10/04-068r2   Uploaded: 2004/05/04   64170 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-068r2.pdf

SAS-1, FCP-3, SRP-2 Per-Command Priority Tagging
(by: George O. Penokie)
T10/04-099r1   Uploaded: 2004/05/05   73835 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-099r1.pdf

SPC-3 Persistent Reservation Fix Fix
(by: George O. Penokie)
T10/04-105r2   Uploaded: 2004/05/04   16818 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-105r2.pdf

ISO IR Status Report May 2004
(by: Gary S. Robinson)
T10/04-124r1   Uploaded: 2004/05/06   59264 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-124r1.pdf

ISO Status Report May 2004
(by: Gary S. Robinson)
T10/04-124r2   Uploaded: 2004/05/06   65892 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-124r2.pdf

SAS-1.1 OOB Data Rate @ 1,5G only
(by: Bill Lye)
T10/04-128r1   Uploaded: 2004/05/04   140490 bytes
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SES-2 Array Device element Status and Control page Clarifications
(by: Kevin Marks)
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Minutes of SAS Protocol Working Group - May 3, 2004
(by: Weber & Lohmeyer)
T10/04-133r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/06   9692 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-133r0.htm

Minutes of SAS Protocol Working Group - May 3, 2004
(by: Weber & Lohmeyer)
T10/04-133r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/04   37532 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-133r0.pdf

Minutes of SCSI CAP Working Group - May 4-5, 2004
(by: Weber & Lohmeyer)
T10/04-134r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/06   27412 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-134r0.htm

Minutes of SCSI CAP Working Group - May 4-5, 2004
(by: Weber & Lohmeyer)
T10/04-134r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/06   87439 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-134r0.pdf

Minutes of T10 Plenary Meeting #60 - May 6, 2004
(by: Weber & Lohmeyer)
T10/04-135r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/08   57599 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-135r0.htm

Minutes of T10 Plenary Meeting #60 - May 6, 2004
(by: Weber & Lohmeyer)
T10/04-135r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/08   265601 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-135r0.pdf

Minutes of SAS PHY working group meeting May 3, 2004
(by: Alvin Cox)
T10/04-139r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/04   88991 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-139r0.pdf

VERITAS Input on SSC-3 features
(by: Roger Cummings)
T10/04-144r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/03   68005 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-144r0.pdf

IEEE 1619 Security for Storage Data at Rest
(by: Fabio Maino)
T10/04-146r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/03   17293 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-146r0.pdf

Proposed Inter-enclosure TCTF for SAS
(by: Michael Jenkins)
T10/04-147r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/03   770588 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-147r0.pdf

Concerns with Mathematical Modeling of CIC (SAS Phy)
(by: Michael Jenkins)
T10/04-148r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/03   2497925 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-148r0.pdf

SSC-3: Working Group Agenda (5/4/04)
(by: David Peterson)
T10/04-149r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/04   6477 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-149r0.pdf

SAS TCTF update
(by: Alvin Cox)
T10/04-150r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/04   114755 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-150r0.pdf

Minutes of SCSI to ATA Translation study group
(by: Rob Elliott)
T10/04-151r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/04   22096 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-151r0.pdf

Minutes of SCSI to ATA Translation study group
(by: Rob Elliott)
T10/04-151r1   Uploaded: 2004/05/07   20436 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-151r1.pdf

STA T10 Update - May 6, 2004
(by: Marty Czekalski)
T10/04-152r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/06   126998 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-152r0.pdf

Minutes: SSC-3 WG (04 May 2004)
(by: Kevin Butt)
T10/04-153r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/05   100513 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-153r0.pdf

FCP-3 Incorrect Logical Unit Number for task management
(by: Rob Elliott)
T10/04-154r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/06   13902 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-154r0.pdf

ADT - Proposed Resolution for Seagate LB Comment 23
(by: Paul Suhler)
T10/04-155r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/05   80728 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-155r0.pdf

Summary of T10 Activities to ISO/IEC SC 25 / WG 4
(by: John Lohmeyer)
T10/04-156r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/05   135443 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-156r0.pdf

SNIA Liaison Report 05/2004
(by: Roger Cummings)
T10/04-157r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/06   61403 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-157r0.pdf

Minutes of FCP-3 working group meeting May 4, 2004
(by: Bob Nixon)
T10/04-158r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/06   39629 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-158r0.pdf

Agenda for T10 Meeting #62 (July 2004)
(by: John Lohmeyer)
T10/04-159r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/06   68257 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-159r0.pdf

T10 Project Summary - May 2004
(by: John Lohmeyer)
T10/04-160r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/06   50092 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-160r0.pdf

Jeopardy Letter for July 2004 meeting
(by: John Lohmeyer)
T10/04-161r0   Uploaded: 2004/05/06   99339 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.04/04-161r0.pdf

Working Drafts
--------------
SCSI Enclosure Services - 2 (SES-2)
(Editor: Rob Elliott)
 Rev: 08       Uploaded: 2004/05/07   586361 bytes
ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/drafts/ses2/ses2r08.pdf


(Report generated on 2004/05/09 at 00:00:25)
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "David Burg" <dburg at nero.com>
*
Dear All,

I would like to re-new my question about prevent/allow media removal
definition.

As you will see below, Bill McFerrin provided an useful clarification on the
history of this issue.

Still, I would like to support devices, and they do exist, that do not
conform to Mt Fuji specification but do conform to MMC-2 / SPC-2
specification. What is the expected host sequence to set 'Persistent' state
to be able to receive Media Event in response to Get Event/Status
Notification command?

Can someone help me?

Best regards,

David Burg.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Burg [mailto:dburg at nero.com] 
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 12:00 AM
To: 'Bill McFerrin'
Subject: RE: MMC-4 prevent/allow media removal definition conflicts with
MMC-3 / SPC-2 / SPC-3


Hello Bill,

Thanks for pointing the problem with Mt Fuji.

I have here a Matshita DVD-RAM device which seems to conform to SPC/MMC-3.
Consequently, it rejects Prevent/Allow command with Mt Fuji's "Persistent"
bit to one, and I can't get eject request notification to my GESN Media
Event polling. What is nice is that this same Matshita DVD-RAM does report
MMC-2 and SPC-2 in its inquiry response! So if I could understand how to set
'Persistent' state conforming to MMC-2 and/or SPC-2, I should be able to get
eject request from this device too.

Can you help me?

Best regards,

David Burg.



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill McFerrin [mailto:billmc at tstar.net] 
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:58 PM
To: David Burg
Subject: RE: MMC-4 prevent/allow media removal definition conflicts with
MMC-3 / SPC-2 / SPC-3


The trouble is that Mt Fuji redefined the PREVENT/ALLOW command to be
significantly different from SPC and consequently MMC-3.  Since we could
find no manufacturer that operated differently than Mt Fuji, we corrected
MMC-4 to be in concert with Mt Fuji.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-t10 at t10.org [mailto:owner-t10 at t10.org]On Behalf Of David Burg
Sent: Thursday, 22 April, 2004 5:05 AM
To: T10 Reflector
Subject: MMC-4 prevent/allow media removal definition conflicts with MMC-3 /
SPC-2 / SPC-3


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "David Burg" <dburg at nero.com>
*
Hello,

As I had some trouble to monitor user eject requests of different MMC
devices implementing of the prevent/allow media removal, I had a look at the
changes in MMC specification and found the following conflict:

- MMC-3:

"Table 49 - Commands for Multi-Media Logical Units" says, "Command name:
PREVENT ALLOW MEDIUM REMOVAL; Op Code: 1Eh; Reference: SPC-2". SPC-2 defines
bits 0 and 1 of byte 4 of the PREVENT ALLOW MEDIUM REMOVAL command as
"PREVENT" field. SPC-2 says then "PREVENT values 10b and 11b are valid only
when the RMB bit and the MCHNGR bit are both equal to one in the standard
INQUIRY data.". SPC-3 (r07) says the same.

Note: Devices I could test here (and which have no media changer) response
in standard inquiry data with RMB bit to one and MCHNGR bit to zero.

- MMC-4:

"6.18 PREVENT ALLOW MEDIUM REMOVAL Command"/"Table 329 - PREVENT ALLOW
MEDIUM REMOVAL CDB" defines bits 0 and 1 (resp.) of byte 4 of the PREVENT
ALLOW MEDIUM REMOVAL command as 'Prevent' and 'Persistent' (resp.).
Persistent prevent state is set with both bits to 1 (as described in "Table
330 - State Selection").

Then, in "4.1.7 Removable medium", is said "While in the Persistent prevent
state, the Logical Unit shall generate Events upon receipt of a User Eject
request." - I understand this as if I want to receive eject request
notification with Get Event/Status Notification command, I need to set the
"Persistent prevent" state.

But... On a device where MCHNGR bit is zero, according to MMC-3/SPC-2, value
11b for 'PREVENT' field is invalid! And indeed, I have a few devices here
that rejects my Prevent/Allow Media Removal command with check condition,
Sense Key:	05h (Illegal Request), Sense Code:	24h 00h (Invalid
field in CDB).

I am twice confused because in MMC-3, I can found the same note about
"Persistent prevent" note in "4.1.6 Removable medium" but I not understand
how I can set this "Persistent prevent" state according to MMC-3.

So, what should I do to lock the door and receive notification of user eject
requests (so I can put the medium in a clean state, unlock the door, and
eject)?

Best regards,

David Burg

PS: MMC-2 refers to SPC (1) for Prevent/Allow Media Removal. SPC-1 says the
same as SPC-2 and SPC-3 ("Prevent values 10b and 11b are valid only when the
RMB bit and the Mchngr bit are both equal to one in the standard INQUIRY
data.")

----------------------------------------------------------------
David Burg
Software Development,
InCD Project Leader

Ahead Software AG     phone: +49 (0)7248 911 862 (direct line)
Im Stoeckmaedle 18    fax:   +49 (0)7248 911 888
76307 Karlsbad        email: dburg at nero.com
Germany               http://www.nero.com
----------------------------------------------------------------


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SBC-2 and SES-2 new revisions now available




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From: "Bill McFerrin" <billmc at tstar.net>
To: "T10 Reflector" <T10 at t10.org>
Subject: Location of May 2004 MMC-WG Meeting
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 18:12:42 -0500
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* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* "Bill McFerrin" <billmc at tstar.net>
*
Members:
Due to scheduling problems, the MMC-WG meeting wil be at the Crown Plaza.
It is 2 blocks from the Austin Hilton.
The meeting will begin at 9:00 AM and conclude at 5:00 PM.  We are permitted
to keep the room until 6:00 PM.

Kind Regards,
Bill McFerrin


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