SAS rate matching - ALIGNs in OPEN

Dave Noeldner daven at lsil.com
Fri Feb 21 14:13:11 PST 2003


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* Dave Noeldner <daven at lsil.com>
*

I would prefer that we do not remove the option of inserting ALIGN's for 
rate-matching during the Open Address Frame.  Even though it is unneeded,
no one should care (or even notice) if there are ALIGN's in the Open Address 
Frame since they are stripped anyway.  

Thank you,
Dave Noeldner

> 
> * From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
> * George Penokie <gop at us.ibm.com>
> *
> 
> I believe Jim's wording is good and should be placed in the standard. I am
> against saying nothing. The fact that is conversion is going on is enough
> justification for adding in the words.
> 
> Bye for now,
> George Penokie
> 
> Dept 2C6  114-2 N212
> E-Mail:    gop at us.ibm.com
> Internal:  553-5208
> External: 507-253-5208   FAX: 507-253-2880
> 
> 
>                       "Seto, Pak-lung"
>                       <pak-lung.seto at in        To:       "'Jim.Coomes at seagate.com'" <Jim.Coomes at seagate.com>, "Elliott, Robert
>                       tel.com>                  (Server Storage)" <Elliott at hp.com>
>                       Sent by:                 cc:       T10 Reflector <t10 at t10.org>
>                       owner-t10 at t10.org        Subject:  RE: SAS rate matching - ALIGNs in OPEN
> 
> 
>                       02/20/2003 12:24
>                       PM
> 
> 
> 
> * From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
> * "Seto, Pak-lung" <pak-lung.seto at intel.com>
> *
> I would recommend don't even say anything in the standard.  Implementation
> will have to make it work and it does not affect interoperability.
> 
> Pak
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim.Coomes at seagate.com [mailto:Jim.Coomes at seagate.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 10:02 AM
> To: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)
> Cc: T10 Reflector
> Subject: RE: SAS rate matching - ALIGNs in OPEN
> 
> * From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
> * Jim.Coomes at seagate.com
> *
> The option of rate matching during the OPEN should be removed. It is
> unneeded as the OPEN frames have to be buffered and validate before action
> is taken on them.
> 
> There should be no requirement to place an ALIGN following the EOAF. The
> expander phy that is performing the rate match is not buffering the dword
> stream following the OPEN. The dwords following the EOAF may fall on the
> ground before an OPEN-ACCept.
> 
> How about the following wording to remove the word immediate:
> 
> The source phy shall start rate matching at the selected connection rate
> with the first dword following EOAF.
> 
> Dword covers both idle dwords and primitives.
> 
> ----- Forwarded by Jim Coomes/Seagate on 02/20/03 10:39 AM -----
> 
>                       "Elliott, Robert
> 
>                       (Server                  To:      "Seto, Pak-lung"
> <pak-lung.seto at intel.com>, "Hoglund, Tim"
>                       Storage)"                <thoglund at lsil.com>, "T10
> Reflector" <t10 at t10.org>
>                       <Elliott at hp.com>         cc:
> 
>                       Sent by:                 Subject: RE: SAS rate
> matching - ALIGNs in OPEN
>                       owner-t10 at t10.or
> 
>                       g
> 
>                       No Phone Info
> 
>                       Available
> 
>                       02/19/03 06:54
> 
>                       PM
> 
> * From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
> * "Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)" <Elliott at hp.com>
> *
> The important rule is that rate matching begins sometime during the
> first idle dwords - it must already be rate matching when the expander
> forwards an OPEN_ACCEPT.
> 
> There's nothing special about rate matching ALIGNs vs. other ALIGNs.
> They don't get forwarded through an expander like normal dwords -
> they're deleted and added back as needed.
> 
> The January SAS WG thought it would be better to specify exactly when
> the rate matching starts to reduce testing variety.
> 
> Nobody is commenting on whether I should remove that sentence about rate
> matching during the OPEN or not.
> 
> If I go with Brian's wording:
> Immediately after transmitting the EOAF of the OPEN address frame, the
> source phy shall start rate matching at the selected connection rate.
> 
> George will complain about "immediately" and this prohibits rate
> matching during the OPEN itself (do we want to prohibit that?).
> 
> --
> Rob Elliott, elliott at hp.com
> Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology
> https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Seto, Pak-lung [mailto:pak-lung.seto at intel.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 4:22 PM
> > To: 'Hoglund, Tim'; T10 Reflector
> > Subject: RE: SAS rate matching - ALIGNs in OPEN
> >
> >
> > * From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
> > * "Seto, Pak-lung" <pak-lung.seto at intel.com>
> > *
> > I agree and I don't know what is the reason to put in such
> > requirements?
> >
> > Pak
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hoglund, Tim [mailto:thoglund at lsil.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 12:19 PM
> > To: T10 Reflector
> > Subject: Re: SAS rate matching - ALIGNs in OPEN
> >
> >
> > * From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
> > * "Hoglund, Tim" <thoglund at lsil.com>
> > *
> > I do not agree with imposing a requirement to send a
> > rate-matching ALIGN immediately following EOAF - this is a
> > needless constraint on implementations.
> >
> > The OPEN address frame is not delivered through the topology,
> > rather is store/forward through expanders, therefore it
> > should not matter whether the rate matching ALIGNs begin as
> > EOAF/ALIGN/idle dword or as EOAF/idle dword/ALIGN.
> >
> > TimH
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Tim.Hoglund at lsil.com
> > 719/533-7450 (Voice)
> > 719/533-7480 (Fax)
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:Elliott at hp.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 2:40 PM
> > To: t10 at t10.org
> > Subject: SAS rate matching - ALIGNs in OPEN
> >
> >
> > * From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
> > * "Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)" <Elliott at hp.com>
> > *
> > sas-r03 7.15 Rate matching says:
> >     The OPEN address frame itself may or may not have ALIGNs
> > interspersed.
> >
> > A letter ballot comment asked that we be very precise in
> > mandating that the first dword after the OPEN address frame
> > shall be an ALIGN,
> > yielding:
> >
> >     After transmitting the OPEN address frame, the source phy
> > shall start rate matching at the selected connection rate.
> > The first dword after the EOF shall be an ALIGN or NOTIFY for
> > rate matching.
> >
> > Should I keep or delete the sentence about ALIGNs (and
> > NOTIFYs) in the OPEN address frame?  It's true, but might
> > lead someone to think they should start rate matching in the
> > OPEN (there's probably no reason to do so).
> >
> >
> > --
> > Rob Elliott, elliott at hp.com
> > Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced
> > Technology https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott
> >
> >
> >
> > *
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-- 
/ Dave Noeldner                             Office: (970)206-5792  \
\ Design Engineer - LSI Logic               Fax:    (970)206-5244  /
/ 2001 Danfield Court                       http://www.lsil.com    \
\ Fort Collins, CO  80525                   dave.noeldner at lsil.com / 

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