Draft minutes of SAS Protocol Teleconference -- October 29, 2002

John Lohmeyer lohmeyer at t10.org
Tue Oct 29 12:09:18 PST 2002


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <lohmeyer at t10.org>
*

Accredited Standards Committee*
InterNational Committee for Information Technology Standards (INCITS)

                                                   Doc. No.: T10/02-448r0
                                                       Date: October 29, 2002
                                                   Reply to: John Lohmeyer
To:       T10 Membership
From:     John Lohmeyer
Subject:  SAS Protocol Teleconference -- October 29, 2002

Agenda
1.     Opening Remarks
2.     Approval of Agenda
3.     Attendance and Membership
4.     Old Business
4.1      SAS Working Draft Review [Elliott]
4.2      SAS Data Corruption Problem (02-323r2) [Gardner/Sheffield]
4.3      SAS Rules for Sequence Count (02-442r0) [Penokie]
4.4      SAS Disconnect-Reconnect Mode Parameters (02-324r0) [Gardner]
4.5      Informative Annex on Expanders (02-291r2) [Hoglund]
4.6      CRC on Frame Header [Roberts] {November 4}
4.7      SAS SATA_ERROR primitive definition (02-418r2) [Hoglund]
4.8      Project proposal for Serial Attached SCSI - 2 (SAS-2) (02-429r0)
[Elliott]
4.9      SAS SATA 1.0e Support (02-437r1) [Sheffield]
4.10     SAS Simplified Support for Multiple STP Initiators (02-430r0)
[Sheffield]
4.11     SAS SMP Phy Control Extensions (02-439r0) [Sheffield]
4.12     SAS STP Buffering (02-435r1) [Sheffield]
4.13     SAS Interpretation of invalid SAS address (02-444r0) [Elliott]
4.14     Handling of protocol mismatches in a wide port [Elliott]
5.     New Business
5.1      SAS Handling Link Rate Not Supported (02-443r0) [Elliott]
5.2      SAS SSP vendor-specific frame types (02-450r0) [Elliott]
5.3      SAS bit and byte ordering overview (02-451r0) [Elliott]
5.4      SAS wide port IDENTIFY error handling (02-445r0) [Elliott]
5.5      SAS Simple Relative Offset (02-449r0) [Galloway]
5.6      SAS Protocol-Specific mode page - make short format optional
[Elliott]
5.7      Tweaks on tweaks (02-424r1) [Worden]
6.     Review of Recommendations to the Plenary
7.     Meeting Schedule
8.     Adjournment


Results of Meeting

1.     Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m. MST, Tuesday, October
29, 2002. He thanked LSI Logic for hosting the teleconference call and John
Worden of Seagate for hosting the WebEx session.

2.     Approval of Agenda

The draft agenda was approved with the following changes:

5.7      Tweaks on tweaks (02-424r1) [Worden]
4.2      SAS Data Corruption Problem (02-323r2) [Gardner/Sheffield] {Deleted}
4.3      SAS Rules for Sequence Count (02-442r0) [Penokie]  {Deleted}

The following items was added or revised during the course of the meeting:

none


3.     Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for T10 membership. Working group meetings are open to any person
or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of work. The
following people attended the meeting:

         Name          S        Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Ron Roberts        P  Adaptec, Inc.             Ron_Roberts at adaptec.com
Mr. Kyle Sterling      V  Adaptec, Inc.             ksterlin at corp.adaptec.com
Mr. Bill Galloway      P  BREA Technologies, Inc.   billg at breatech.com
Mr. Lafe Moon          V  Data Transit Corp.        lafe at data-transit.com
Mr. Rob Elliott        P  Hewlett Packard Co.       Elliott at hp.com
Mr. Steven Fairchild   V  Hewlett Packard Co.       Steve.Fairchild at hp.com
Mr. Jim Reif           V  Hewlett Packard Co.       jim.reif at hp.com
Mr. Matt Otto          V  I-TECH Corp.              matt_otto at i-tech.com
Mr. Steven Wirtz       V  I-TECH Corp.              steve_wirtz at i-tech.com
Mr. George O. Penokie  P  IBM / Tivoli Systems      gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. Edward Younk       V  IBM Corp.                 ehyounh at us.ibm.com
Mr. Robert Sheffield   A  Intel Corp.               robert.l.sheffield at intel.
                                                    com
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  LSI Logic Corp.           lohmeyer at t10.org
Mr. Brian Day          V  LSI Logic Corp.           brian.day at lsil.com
Mr. Tim Hoglund        V  LSI Logic Corp.           tim.hoglund at lsil.com
Mr. Brad Besmer        V  LSI Logic Corp.           brad.besmer at lsil.com
Mr. Steve Johnson      V  LSI Logic Corp.           sjohnson at lsil.com
Mr. Mark Evans         P  Maxtor Corp.              mark_evans at maxtor.com
Mr. Bruce Leshay       V  Maxtor Corp.              bruce_leshay at maxtor.com
Mr. Ting Li Chan       V  QLogic Corp.              ting.chan at qlogic.com
Mr. Arie Krantz        V  QLogic Corp.              l_krantz at qlc.com
Mr. Jim Coomes         V  Seagate Technology        jim.coomes at seagate.com
Mr. John Worden        V  Seagate Technology        john.worden at seagate.com
Mr. Scott Younger      V  Seagate Technology        Scott.Younger at seagate.com

24 People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
             A,A# -  Alternate
             AV   -  Advisory Member
             L    -  Liaison
             V    -  Visitor


4.     Old Business

4.1    SAS Working Draft Review [Elliott]

Due to the late hour, this item was deferred.

4.2    SAS Data Corruption Problem (02-323r2) [Gardner/Sheffield]

Bob Sheffield asked that this item be deleted from future agendas.

4.3    SAS Rules for Sequence Count (02-442r0) [Penokie]

George Penokie asked that this item be deleted from future agendas.

4.4    SAS Disconnect-Reconnect Mode Parameters (02-324r0) [Gardner]

In the absence of Ed Gardner, this item was deferred.

4.5    Informative Annex on Expanders (02-291r2) [Hoglund]

Tim Hoglund presented 02-291r2, Informative Annex on Expanders. Tim Hoglund
moved and Bill Galloway seconded that 02-291r2 be recommended for inclusion in
SAS. The motion passed unanimously.

4.6    CRC on Frame Header [Roberts] {November 4}

Ron Roberts asked that this item be deferred to the November 4 meeting.

4.7    SAS SATA_ERROR primitive definition (02-418r2) [Hoglund]

Tim Hoglund presented 02-418r1, SAS Remove SATA_ERROR primitive. He received
input and agreed to revise his proposal. Tim Hoglund moved and Bill Galloway
seconded that 02-418r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
The motion passed unanimously.

4.8    Project proposal for Serial Attached SCSI - 2 (SAS-2) (02-429r0)
[Elliott]

John Lohmeyer noted that Rob Elliott had uploaded a SAS-2 project proposal.

4.9    SAS SATA 1.0e Support (02-437r1) [Sheffield]

Bob Sheffield presented 02-437r1, SAS SATA 1.0e Support. He received input and
agreed to revise his proposal.

4.10   SAS Simplified Support for Multiple STP Initiators (02-430r0) [Sheffield]

Bob Sheffield said that he had not yet revised this proposal. He asked Bill
Galloway for assistance on identifying primitives. He plans to have a revision
for next week's meeting.

4.11   SAS SMP Phy Control Extensions (02-439r0) [Sheffield]

Bob Sheffield asked that this proposal be withdrawn.

4.12   SAS STP Buffering (02-435r1) [Sheffield]

Bob Sheffield presented 02-435r1, SAS STP Buffering. Bill Galloway said his
understanding was that each expander would participate in the HOLD/HOLDA
protocol. Thus, the buffering requirements would be spread across all
expanders. An expander that needs additional buffering must provide enough
buffering to cover its requirements. The initiator does not need to cover the
buffering requirements for all the expanders.

Bob Sheffield agreed to revise his proposal to reflect this method.

4.13   SAS Interpretation of invalid SAS address (02-444r0) [Elliott]

Rob Elliott presented 02-444r0, SAS Interpretation of invalid SAS address. Rob
Elliott moved and Bill Galloway seconded that 02-444r0 be recommended for
inclusion in SAS. The motion passed unanimously.

4.14   Handling of protocol mismatches in a wide port [Elliott]

(Handled under agenda item 5.4)


5.     New Business

5.1    SAS Handling Link Rate Not Supported (02-443r0) [Elliott]

Rob Elliott presented 02-443r0, SAS Handling Link Rate Not Supported. He
received input and agreed to revise his proposal.

5.2    SAS SSP vendor-specific frame types (02-450r0) [Elliott]

Rob Elliott presented 02-450r0, SAS SSP vendor-specific frame types. Rob
Elliott moved and Bill Galloway seconded that 02-450r0 be recommended for
inclusion in SAS. The motion passed 6:1:4.

5.3    SAS bit and byte ordering overview (02-451r0) [Elliott]

Rob Elliott presented 02-451r0, SAS bit and byte ordering overview. He
received input and agreed to revise the proposal. Rob Elliott moved and Tim
Hoglund seconded that 02-451r1 (r0 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in
SAS.

George Penokie moved and Bill Galloway seconded to amend the motion to remove
Table 1. The motion to amend passed 5:1:5.

The main motion passed unanimously.

5.4    SAS wide port IDENTIFY error handling (02-445r0) [Elliott]

Rob Elliott presented 02-445r0, SAS wide port IDENTIFY error handling. Rob
Elliott moved and Bill Galloway seconded that 02-445r0 be recommended for
inclusion in SAS. The motion passed unanimously.

5.5    SAS Simple Relative Offset (02-449r0) [Galloway]

Bill Galloway presented 02-449r0, SAS Simple Relative Offset. The proposal
would solve the problem identified in 02-323r2 and lays the groundwork for a
future full implementation of relative offset. George Penokie said that he
would withdraw his 02-442r0 proposal in favor of the 02-449r0 proposal. George
noted that bi-directional transfers need to be documented and Bill agreed to
do so. Bill received additional input and agreed to revise his proposal.

There was a lengthy discussion of whether the checking of relative offset
should be mandatory or optional. With the exception of Jim Coomes, there was
consensus that checking should be mandatory.

5.6    SAS Protocol-Specific mode page - make short format optional [Elliott]

Rob Elliott proposed that if the SAS Protocol-Specific mode page is not
implemented, that the target is expected to implement the I_T nexus loss timer
using a default value of 2 seconds. George Panokie objected to requiring a
timer if the mode page is not supported. He was not opposed to making the mode
page optional. Rob agreed to write up a proposal.

5.7    Tweaks on tweaks (02-424r1) [Worden]

John Worden presented 02-424r2a, SAS Additional Port Layer Tweaks. 02-424r2
had been recommended for inclusion in SAS at the meeting last week, but John
had not posted it yet. John wanted to simplify the IT Nexus lost handshaking
by only reporting timeouts and not passing values up and down between the port
and transport layers. John Worden moved and Bill Galloway seconded that
02-424r2 be further modified as described. The motion passed unanimously.


6.     Review of Recommendations to the Plenary

John Lohmeyer noted that the following recommendations were made during this
meeting:

that 02-291r2 be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that 02-418r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that 02-444r0 be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that 02-450r0 be recommended for inclusion in SAS. [6:1:4]
that 02-451r1 (r0 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that 02-445r0 be recommended for inclusion in SAS.

The following recommendations were made at the October 24-25 meeting:

that 02-360r3 (r2 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that 02-363r3 (r2 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that 02-397r0 be recommended for inclusion in SAS. [5:3:0]
that 02-409r3 be recommended for inclusion in SAS. [6:1:2]
that the SAS SMP margin control function be recommended for removal from SAS.
that 02-424r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that 02-427r1 (r0 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that 02-433r1 (r0 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that 02-441r1 (r0 as modified) be recommended for inclusion in SAS. [7:0:2]
that 02-422r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.

The following recommendation was made on the October 22 conference call:

that 02-396r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that the Fallback and Increment Speed states be recommended for removal from
the SP state machine in SAS.
that 02-405r2 (r1 as revised) be recommend for inclusion in SAS.
that it be recommended that a SAS address of all 0 bits is not a valid SAS
address and may be used to indicate there is no device present or other
meanings.

The following recommendation was made on the October 15 conference call:

that 02-387r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that 02-383r2 (r1 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that 02-394r1 (r0 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that DEVICE TYPE numbers be changed to start at 1 and DEVICE TYPE 0 means no
device is attached be recommended for included in SAS.

The following recommendation was made on the October 1 conference call:

that 02-359r3 (r2 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS. [4:3:2]
that 02-393r1 (r0 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.

The following recommendation was made on the September 24 conference call:

that 02-318r1 be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that 02-202r4 (r3 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that 02-276r3 (r2 as revised) be recommended for inclusion in SAS.
that we recommend to T10 that the SSP Task IU be changed to 28 bytes to match
the command IU by removing the last 4 reserved bytes.

The following recommendation was made on the September 17 conference call:

that a statement saying STP initiators shall not generate BIST frames be
recommended for inclusion in SAS.


7.     Meeting Schedule

SAS Protocol Working Group meetings are scheduled for:

Monday-Tuesday, November 4-5, 2002 commencing at 1:00 p.m. on Monday and
ending at 5:00 p.m. on Tuesday in Huntington Beach, CA at the Hilton
Waterfront Hotel (714-960-7873).

A SAS STP Study Group meeting is scheduled for:

Monday, November 4, 2002 commencing at 9:00 a.m. on Monday and ending at noon
in Huntington Beach, CA at the Hilton Waterfront Hotel (714-960-7873).

An editing meeting is planned for November 7-8, 2002 in Huntington Beach, CA.
The meeting will start one hour following the plenary meeting and run through
1:00 p.m. on Friday.


8.     Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 12:40 p.m. MST on Tuesday October 29, 2002.

 
*
* For T10 Reflector information, send a message with
* 'info t10' (no quotes) in the message body to majordomo at t10.org




More information about the T10 mailing list