draft minutes SCSI Physical Working Group Meeting -- November 1-2, 1999

John Lohmeyer jlohmeye at lsil.com
Tue Nov 9 09:17:57 PST 1999


* From the T10 Reflector (t10 at t10.org), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <john.lohmeyer at lsil.com>
*
These minutes are available in PDF format at:

  ftp://ftp.t10.org/t10/document.99/99-308r0.pdf



Accredited Standards Committee*
National Committee for Information Technology Standards (NCITS)

                                                   Doc. No.: T10/99-308r0
                                                       Date: November 9, 1999
                                                   Reply to: John Lohmeyer

To:       T10 Membership
From:     Ralph Weber / John Lohmeyer
Subject:  SCSI Physical  Working Group Meeting -- November 1-2, 1999
          Monterey, CA


Agenda
1.     Opening Remarks
2.     Approval of Agenda
3.     Attendance and Membership
4.     SPI-3 Topics
4.1      Cable Media Performance Testing (98-219, 99-111) [Ham]
4.2      SPI-3 Letter Ballot Comments Review [Penokie]
5.     SPI-4 Topics
5.1      Load Compensation [Novak]
5.2      Cable/System Simulation Issues (99-204) [Wallace]
5.3      Next Generation Cable Performance [Ham]
5.4      SCSI out of band communications method (99-213) [Petty]
5.5      Presentation on Ultra320 (99-302) [Bastiani]
5.6      Extended Addressing for SPI-4 (99-249, 99-250) [Monia]
5.7      SPI-4 ISI reduction via transmit pre-compensation (99-260) [Petty]
5.8      SPI-4 timing budget utilizing receiver signal deskew method (99-261)
[Petty]
5.9      SPI-4 clocking proposal (99-262) [Petty]
5.10     Margin Control (99-264) [Lamers]
5.11     Setting Extended Addresses (99-273) [Milligan]
5.12     Flow Control & Continue I/O Process Flag (99-142) [Lamers]
5.13     Fast-160 Presentation (99-300) [Patel]
5.14     Proposal for Fast-160 to be included in SPI-4 (99-295) [Milligan]
5.15     Proposal for a training pattern for SPI-4 (99-297) [Evans]
5.16     Proposal for turn-on/turn-off of a free-running clock (99-298)
[Evans]
5.17     How to verify goodness (99-305) [Bastiani]
5.18     Hot-Plug Problem & its Solution (99-319) [Herrmann]
5.19     Fast-160 Phase Encoded Data Enabling (99-323) [Moore]
5.20     Fast-160 Buffer Credit Transfer Mechanism (99-324) [Moore]
5.21     ISI Measurements for Ultra4 Discussion (99-326) [Smith]
5.22     ISI Measurements (99-337r0) [Bridgewater/Bastiani]
5.23     Measurements of Compensation Schemes (99-335r0) [Bishop]
5.24     Expander Guidelines (99-282) [Lamers]
6.     Domain Validation Technical Report Topics
7.     New Business
7.1      Echo Buffer Considerations (99-306r0) [Lamers]
8.     Meeting Schedule
9.     Adjournment


Results of Meeting

1.     Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer, the T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 1:00 p.m., Monday
November 1, 1999.  He thanked Larry Lamers of Adaptec for hosting the meeting.

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.


2.     Approval of Agenda

The draft agenda was approved with the following additions and changes:

4.2      SPI-3 Letter Ballot Comments Review [Penokie]
5.21     ISI Measurements for Ultra4 Discussion (99-326) [Smith]
5.22     ISI Measurements [Bridgewater]
5.23     Measurements of Compensation Schemes () [Bishop]
5.24     Expander Guidelines (99-282) [Lamers]

The following agenda items were added or revised during the course of the
meeting:

7.1      Echo Buffer Considerations (99-306r0) [Lamers]


3.     Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for T10 membership.  Working group meetings are open to any
person or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of
work.  The following people attended the meeting:

         Name          S        Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Lawrence J. Lamers P  Adaptec, Inc.             ljlamers at ieee.org
Mr. Vincent Bastiani   A# Adaptec, Inc.             bastiani at corp.adaptec.com
Mr. Wally Bridgewater  A# Adaptec, Inc.             wally at eng.adaptec.com
Mr. Tariq Abou-Jeyab   O  Adaptec, Inc.             tajeyab at corp.adaptec.com
Mr. Charles Monia      V  Adaptec, Inc.             cmonia at corp.adaptec.com

Mr. Charles Brill      P  AMP, Inc.                 cebrill at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Gregg Neely        P  Andataco                  greggn at andataco.com
Mr. Bill Galloway      P  BREA Technologies, Inc.   billg at breatech.com
Mr. Dennis Lang        A  Circuit Assembly Corp.    dennisl at circuitassembly.
                                                    com
Mr. Robert C. Elliott  P  Compaq Computer Corp.     Robert.Elliott at compaq.com
Mr. Arthur Bizley      V  CTS Interconnect          arthur.bizley at is.ctscorp.
                                                    com
Mr. Charles Tashbook   P  Dallas Semiconductor      charles.tashbook at dalsemi.
                                                    com
Mr. Wayne Mendenhall   A  Dallas Semiconductor      wayne.mendenhall at dalsemi.
                                                    com
Mr. Titkwan Hui        V  Dallas Semiconductor      tk.hui at dalsemi.com
Mr. Julian Ferry       O  Foxconn I/O               julferry at aol.com
Mr. Stephen Jarvis     O  Foxconn I/O               s.jarvis at foxconn.com
Mr. Eugene Lew         P  Fujitsu                   elew at fcpa.fujitsu.com
Mr. Tim Mackley        A  General Dynamics          timothy.a.mackley at gd-is.
                                                    com
Mr. George O. Penokie  P  IBM Corp.                 gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  LSI Logic Corp.           lohmeyer at t10.org
Mr. Ralph O. Weber     A  LSI Logic Corp.           roweber at acm.org
Mr. William Petty      V  LSI Logic Corp.           william.petty at lsil.com
Mr. Jay Neer           A  Molex Inc.                jneer at molex.com
Mr. Richard Moore      A# QLogic Corp.              r_moore at qlc.com
Mr. Dean Wallace       A  QLogic Corp.              d_wallace at qlc.com
Mr. Ting Li Chan       V  QLogic Corp.              t_chan at qlc.com
Mr. Mark Evans         P  Quantum Corp.             mark.evans at quantum.com
Mr. Patrick McGarrah   A  Quantum Corp.             pat.mcgarrah at quantum.com
Mr. Bruce Leshay       V  Quantum Corp.             bleshay at tdh.qntm.com
Mr. Richard Uber       V  Quantum Corp.             duber at tdh.qntm.com
Dr. Andrew Bishop      V  Quantum Corp.             andrew.bishop at quantum.com
Mr. Gene Milligan      P  Seagate Technology        Gene_Milligan at notes.
                                                    seagate.com
Mr. Gerald Houlder     A  Seagate Technology        gerry_houlder at notes.
                                                    seagate.com
Mr. Jon P. Baker       O  Seagate Technology        jon_baker at notes.seagate.
                                                    com
Mr. Daniel (Dan) F.    O  Seagate Technology        daniel_f_smith at notes.
Smith                                               seagate.com
Mr. Mayank R. Patel    V  Seagate Technology        mayank_r_patel at notes.
                                                    seagate.com
Mr. Bill Gintz         V  Seus, Inc.                wcgintz at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Vit Novak          A  Sun Microsystems, Inc.    vit.novak at sun.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi     P  Texas Instruments         Paul_Aloisi at ti.com
Mr. Robert Morris      A  Texas Instruments         bob.morris at ti.com
Mr. Paresh Sheth       A# Texas Instruments         paresh.sheth at ti.com
Mr. Hank Herrmann      O  Tyco Electronics          hank.herrmann@
                                                    tycoelectronics.com
Mr. Michael F. Laub    O  Tyco Electronics          mike.laub@
                                                    tycoelectronics.com
Mr. Jeffrey L.         P  Western Digital           Jeffrey.L.Williams at wdc.
Williams                  Corporation               com

44 People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
             A,A# -  Alternate
             O    -  Observer
             L    -  Liaison
             V    -  Visitor



4.     SPI-3 Topics

4.1    Cable Media Performance Testing (98-219, 99-111) [Ham]

George Penokie asked that discussion of this topic be considered under the
SPI-3 Letter Ballot comments review.

4.2    SPI-3 Letter Ballot Comments Review [Penokie]


George Penokie stated that issues related to the cable testing material will
be reviewed by the cable testing group meeting in December.

George reviewed the letter ballot comments from Advansys, Compaq, Seagate,
Qlogic, and BREA Technologies.  Not all of the letter ballot comments were
discussed.  Further review is planned for the December 2-3 meeting.


5.     SPI-4 Topics

George Penokie asked that the group prepare electronic copies of all
presentations prior to coming to the meeting.  He stated that he plans to give
priority to those presentations that are available prior to the meeting.

5.1    Load Compensation [Novak]

Vit Novak asked that discussion of this topic be deferred to the next meeting.

5.2    Cable/System Simulation Issues (99-204) [Wallace]

Dean Wallace reported that a study group met last week, minutes in 99-329.

5.3    Next Generation Cable Performance [Ham]

Bill Ham reported on the activities of the cable performance study group,
minutes in 99-328.

5.4    SCSI out of band communications method (99-213) [Petty]

Bill Petty stated that no new material is available for discussion on this
topic.

5.5    Presentation on Ultra320 (99-302) [Bastiani]

Vince Bastiani asked that this topic be removed from future agendas.

5.6    Extended Addressing for SPI-4 (99-249, 99-250) [Monia]

Larry Lamers asked that this topic be deferred to the SCSI protocol working
group meeting, minutes in 99-309.

5.7    SPI-4 ISI reduction via transmit pre-compensation (99-260) [Petty]

Bill Petty noted that no new revision of the LSI ISI proposal is available at
this time (no revision of 99-260).  He then presented some preliminary ISI
laboratory data (99-332r0).

5.8    SPI-4 timing budget utilizing receiver signal deskew method (99-261)
[Petty]

Bill Petty noted that no new revision of the LSI deskew proposal is available
at this time.

5.9    SPI-4 clocking proposal (99-262) [Petty]

Bill Petty asked that discussion of the clocking proposal be deferred to the
next meeting.

5.10   Margin Control (99-264) [Lamers]

Larry Lamers presented a revised version of his proposal for a Margin Control
command.  His suggestion that this function be done instead with a message met
resistance from people who preferred using a command.  Larry noted that there
is some issue of coupling the Margin Control command with subsequent Write and
Read Buffer commands.  While using linked commands seems like a logical way to
do this coupling, a lot of people are opposed to linked commands.  There was
also a suggestion that the Send Diagnostic command should be expanded to
include this function rather than defining a separate command.

A straw poll attempting to decide between the use of commands or messages for
margin control was inconclusive.

Larry agreed to bring a revised proposal to the next working group meeting.

5.11   Setting Extended Addresses (99-273) [Milligan]

Gene Milligan reported that he will revise the document, per discussion at the
last meeting.  He asked that this topic be removed from the agenda for future
meetings, noting that it can be reinstated when needed.

5.12   Flow Control & Continue I/O Process Flag (99-142) [Lamers]

Larry Lamers reviewed the proposal and its status with the group.

5.13   Fast-160 Presentation (99-300) [Patel]

Mayank Patel requested that this topic be dropped from the agenda.

5.14   Proposal for Fast-160 to be included in SPI-4 (99-295) [Milligan]

Gene Milligan started with an overview of the issues and agreements
(99-327r0).  Bruce Leshay and Vince Bastiani questioned the level of agreement
on leaving the precompensation definition vendor specific, both felt that
standardizing precompensation would be required for interoperability.

Gene continued with a review of the proposal (99-295r1).  The group agreed to
several changes in the proposal and Gene agreed to prepare a new revision for
consideration at the next meeting.

5.15   Proposal for a training pattern for SPI-4 (99-297) [Evans]


Bruce Leshay asked that this item be dropped from the agenda.

Larry Lamers and Gene Milligan asked that a new agenda item be added to future
agendas with no name or document number and the title "Physical Configuration
Testing and Methodology".

5.16   Proposal for turn-on/turn-off of a free-running clock (99-298) [Evans]

Bruce Leshay asked that discussion of this topic be deferred to the next
meeting.

5.17   How to verify goodness (99-305) [Bastiani]

Vince Bastiani asked that this item be dropped from the agenda.

5.18   Hot-Plug Problem & its Solution (99-319) [Herrmann]

Hank Herrmann described the current status of the variable resistance
connector, designed for hot plugging.  He explained the requirement that the
variable resistance be on the disk drive as being related to the tolerances of
the portion of the connector that has the maximum participation in the
connection wipe.  There was some discussion over whether or not the CRC and
AIP features introduced in SPI-3 have overcome the need for a physical
connector solution to hot plugging.

The group agreed to drop this item from future agendas.

5.19   Fast-160 Phase Encoded Data Enabling (99-323) [Moore]

The group recommended that the training management aspects of Richard's
proposal be kept and other aspects be discarded.  Richard agreed to bring a
revised proposal to the next meeting.

5.20   Fast-160 Buffer Credit Transfer Mechanism (99-324) [Moore]

The group did not agree with the proposal and Richard dropped the proposal
until he can find more support.

5.21   ISI Measurements for Ultra4 Discussion (99-326) [Smith]

Dan Smith presented ISI measurement data based on corrections in the test
setup recommended by the last working group meeting.

5.22   ISI Measurements (99-337r0) [Bridgewater/Bastiani]

Wally Bridgewater informed the group of instances of voltage mode drivers in
multi-drop environments:

  http://www.ednmag.com/endmag/reg/1999/061099/12ms466.htm

He demonstrated aspects of the ISI problem and proposed solutions.

Vince Bastiani presented laboratory data on cross talk (99-338r0).  It was
noted that the data looks far worse than SCSI currently permits in cables.
Vince decided to collect more data and present it at the next meeting.

5.23   Measurements of Compensation Schemes (99-335r0) [Bishop]

Andrew Bishop presented calculated and measured data on timing and amplitude
ISI pre-compensation.

5.24   Expander Guidelines (99-282) [Lamers]

Larry Lamers presented a collection of requirements that should be placed on
expanders.  The group reviewed the proposal and asked for some changes.
Noting that the proposal is a work in progress, Larry asked everybody to
review the proposal and send him comments.


6.     Domain Validation Technical Report Topics

Larry Lamers asked that discussion of this topic be deferred to the next
meeting.


7.     New Business

7.1    Echo Buffer Considerations (99-306r0) [Lamers]

Larry presented a proposal to change some of the definition of the echo
buffer.  The group requested changes and Larry agreed to prepare a revised
proposal.


8.     Meeting Schedule

The next meeting of the SCSI Physical Working Group will be Thursday, December
2, 1999 commencing at 1 p.m. recessing on Thursday evening and resuming at 9
a.m. until 6 p.m. on Friday, December 3, 1999 at the Radisson Plaza Hotel
(507-281-8000) in Rochester, MN hosted by Western Digital (see 99-318).  The
following meeting is Monday, January 10, 2000 commencing at 1 p.m. recessing
on Monday evening and resuming at 9 a.m. until 6 p.m. on Tuesday, January 11,
2000 at the Marriott Resort (+61-7-5592-9800) in Surfer's Paradise,
Queensland, Australia hosted by ENDL Pacific Technologies.


9.     Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 6:00 p.m. on Tuesday November 2, 1999.


--
John Lohmeyer                  Email: john.lohmeyer at lsil.com
LSI Logic Corp.                Voice: +1-719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr.              Fax: +1-719-533-7036
Colo Spgs, CO 80907              BBS: +1-719-533-7950

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