Draft minutes of the SCSI Working Group - November 4, 1998

John Lohmeyer lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
Wed Nov 11 13:39:45 PST 1998


* From the T10 (formerly SCSI) Reflector (t10 at symbios.com), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com>
*
These minutes are also available in PDF format at:

  ftp://ftp.symbios.com/pub/standards/io/t10/document.98/98-233r0.pdf

Accredited Standards Committee*
National Committee for Information Technology Standards (NCITS)

                                                  Doc. No.: T10/98-233r0
                                                      Date: November 11, 1998
                                                  Reply to: John Lohmeyer

To:       T10 Membership
From:     Ralph Weber / John Lohmeyer
Subject:  SCSI Working Group Meeting -- November 4, 1998
          Palm Springs, CA

Agenda
1.     Opening Remarks
2.     Approval of Agenda
3.     Attendance and Membership
4.     Physical Topics
4.1      Domain Validation (98-184r2, -228r0) [Lamers]
4.2      Bus Width Determination (98-236r0) [Sippy]
5.     Protocol Topics
5.1      SAM-2 Review [Weber]
5.2      SAM-2 Precise Ordering [Peterson]
5.3      FCP-2 [Snively]
6.     Command Set Topics
6.1      SCSI Socket Services (SSS) Rev 0 Review [Parker]
6.2      QErr Recovery in HAP (97-187) []
6.3      High-Availability Profile (HAP) [open]
6.4      GET CONFIGURATION command and feature descriptions for SPC-2 (98-169
and 98-170) [Sims]
6.5      Considerations for mode pages common to several LUNs (98-187r2)
[Houlder]
6.6      Method for defining very long command blocks (98-188r2) [Houlder]
6.7      Persistent Reservations (98-203r9, -164r1) [Penokie/Snively]
6.8      Changing Persistent Reserve Service Action Codes (reflector messages)
[Weber]
6.9      Device locks command (98-225r1) [Houlder]
6.10     ASCQ for resource conflicts (98-229r0) [Penokie]
6.11     Machine readable version control in SPC-2 (reflector messages)
[Milligan]
6.12     Obsolete Communications Device Type [Oetting]
6.13     Obsolete Flag Bit (98-241r0) [Snively]
6.14     Prohibit Write Exclusive in Persistent Reservations for Tapes
[Oetting]
7.     Other Topics
7.1      Optical Memory Card International Issues (98-151) [Smith]
8.     Meeting Schedule
9.     Adjournment

Results of Meeting

1.     Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer, the T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m.,
Wednesday November 4, 1998.  He thanked Larry Lamers of Adaptec for hosting
the meeting.

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.

2.     Approval of Agenda

The draft agenda was approved with the following additions and changes:

5.2      SAM-2 Precise Ordering [Peterson]
5.3      FCP-2 [Snively]
6.12     Obsolete Communications Device Type [Oetting]
6.13     Obsolete Flag Bit [Snively]
6.14     Prohibit Write Exclusive in Persistent Reservations for Tapes
[Oetting]

No agenda items were added during the course of the meeting.

3.     Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for T10 membership.  Working group meetings are open to any
person or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of
work.  The following people attended the meeting:

         Name          S        Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Lawrence J. Lamers P  Adaptec, Inc.             ljlamers at ieee.org
Mr. Robert Frey        O  Advansys                  bobf at advansys.com
Mr. Bill Galloway      V  BREA Technologies         billg at breatech.com
Mr. Edward Haske       P  CMD Technology            haske at cmd.com
Mr. Mark Hamel         V  Compaq Computer Co.       mark.w.hamel at compaq.com
Mr. Robert C. Elliott  P  Compaq Computer Corp.     Robert.Elliott at compaq.com
Mr. Tom Jackson        P  Exabyte Corp.             thomasj at exabyte.com
Mr. Ben-Koon Lin       P  Fujitsu (FCPA)            blin at fcpa.fujitsu.com
Mr. Marcos Barrionuevo P  Harting, Inc. of N.       Marcos.Barrionuevo@
                          America                   harting.com
Mr. George Penokie     P  IBM Corp.                 gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. Dennis Moore       P  KnowledgeTek, Inc.        dmoore at ix.netcom.com
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  LSI Logic Corp.           lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com

Mr. Steve Stefek       A# LSI Logic Corp.           steve.stefek at lsil.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber     A# LSI Logic Corp.           roweber at acm.org
Mr. Robert Bellino     P  Madison Cable Corp.       rbellino at madisoncable.com
Mr. Charley Riegger    O  Maxtor Corp.              charles_reigger at maxtor.
                                                    com
Mr. Jay Neer           A  Molex Inc.                jneer at molex.com
Mr. Martin Ogbuokiri   O  Molex Inc.                mogbuokiri at molex.com
Mr. Chandru Sippy      V  QLogic Corp.              c_sippy at qlc.com
Mr. Mark Evans         P  Quantum Corp.             mark.evans at quantum.com
Mr. Pak Seto           V  Quantum Corp.             pseto at tdh.qntm.com
Mr. Gene Milligan      P  Seagate Technology        Gene_Milligan at notes.
                                                    seagate.com
Mr. Gerald Houlder     A  Seagate Technology        Gerry_Houlder at notes.
                                                    seagate.com
Mr. Bill Gintz         V  Seus, Inc.                wcgintz at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Dave Guss          P  Silicon Systems, Inc.     dave.guss at tus.ssi1.com
Mr. Janek Rebalski     A  Sony Electronics, Inc.    janek_rebalski at asd.sel.
                                                    sony.com
Mr. Erich Oetting      P  Storage Technology Corp.  erich_oetting at stortek.com
Mr. David Peterson     O  StorageTek Network Sys.   dap at network.com
                          Grp
Mr. Robert N. Snively  P  Sun Microsystems          bob.snively at sun.com
                          Computer Co
Mr. Vit Novak          A  Sun Microsystems, Inc.    vit.novak at sun.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi     P  Unitrode Corporation      aloisi at unitrode.com
Mr. Donald R. Getty    A  Unitrode Corporation      gettd at unitrode.com
Mr. Liburdi Francesco  O  Wearnes Hollingsworth     liburdif at hollingsworth.
                          Corp.                     com

33 People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
             A,A# -  Alternate
             O    -  Observer
             L    -  Liaison
             V    -  Visitor

4.     Physical Topics

4.1    Domain Validation (98-184r2, -228r0) [Lamers]

Larry Lamers presented a proposal to add a logical buffer concept to the READ
BUFFER and WRITE BUFFER commands (98-184r2).  The group discussed detecting
hung bus phases and how the condition can best be recovered, including the use
of time-outs in the target.  The group also discussed margin testing.  The
complexity of the topics produced a lengthy discussion and many opportunities
for further discussion.  Larry noted that he would build a new proposal with a
"richer" set of tools that could be useful for a wider variety of domain
validation functions.

4.2    Bus Width Determination (98-236r0) [Sippy]

Chandru Sippy presented a proposal that two bits be added to the standard
Inquiry data to indicate the cable currently connected to the target.
Questions were raised about how the target can know for sure the cable
connected to it.  Chandru agreed to arrange a presentation of how the cable
information can be determined.

5.     Protocol Topics

5.1    SAM-2 Review [Weber]

SAM-2 reported that he was unable to generate a revision of SAM-2 for this
meeting, as such there was nothing to discuss.

5.2    SAM-2 Precise Ordering [Peterson]

Dave Peterson described a problem that arose out of the Command Reference
Number (CRN) capability in FC-Tape and how that capability is to become
incorporated in FCP-2.  He expressed the belief that changes would be
necessary in SAM-2 to reflect the capability.  Bob Snively provided a review
of the FCP-2 conditions related to the problem.

The group discussed the uses of CRN and how those uses might need to be
reflected in SAM-2 and FCP-2.  It was agreed that control over CRN belongs in
FCP-2.  The group also seriously considered the additional need for a
representation of CRN in SAM-2 as a capability that can be enabled or disabled
separately for each command sent to the service delivery subsystem.


Ralph Weber felt that he would be unable to draft an acceptable proposal for
specific changes to SAM-2.  Bob Snively and Dave Peterson agreed to prepare a
proposal for specific changes to SAM-2.

5.3    FCP-2 [Snively]

Bob Snively reviewed the status of development work on FCP-2, with emphasis on
the specific changes between FCP and FCP-2 as listed in 97-266r4.  He noted
that the first draft of FCP-2 is about three-quarters complete.  The group
provided Bob with several corrections to the planned FCP-2 work and Bob agreed
to make some requested changes.

Concerns were raised about FCP response packets.  Are the length fields of the
response always present?  Does the Valid bit cover just the Length field in
the response packet, or does it cover all the information in the response
packet?  Bob agreed to review and clarify these issues.  Larry Lamers noted
that the SBP-2 project editor should be informed about these issues.

Gene Milligan asked if the FCP-2 project should be transferred to T11.  Bob
felt that T11 lacks the knowledge and bandwidth to become the owner of the
FCP-2 project.  Gene and George Penokie expressed a strong desire to see the
first draft of FCP-2 as soon as possible.  Bob stated that the draft will be
ready for the next T10 committee mailing.

6.     Command Set Topics

6.1    SCSI Socket Services (SSS) Rev 0 Review [Parker]

John Lohmeyer reported that Keith Parker was unable to attend this meeting.
Through an e-mail message to John, Keith informed the committee that he will
be attending the March meeting.  Keith indicated that work on SSS will begin
anew in the near future.

6.2    QErr Recovery in HAP (97-187) []

Based on the minutes of the March meeting (98-126), Ralph Weber reported that
the issue in this area is a specific QErr code value, believed to be 01b, that
should not be used in multi-initiator environments.  Since this issue will
become moot should the HAP project be dropped (see next item), no further
action was taken.

6.3    High-Availability Profile (HAP) [open]

John Lohmeyer reported that no one has volunteered to edit the HAP Technical
Report.  He stated an intention to introduce a motion at T10 requesting that
this project be withdrawn.

6.4    GET CONFIGURATION command and feature descriptions for SPC-2 (98-169
and 98-170) [Sims]

Ralph Weber reported that Rob Sims had informed him that the GET CONFIGURATION
command is in MMC-2 and there will be no further efforts to add it to SPC-2.

6.5    Considerations for mode pages common to several LUNs (98-187r2)
[Houlder]

Gerry Houlder briefly reviewed the history of the target-wide mode page.  Bob
Snively requested changes in the proposal, based on the addition of Command
Reference Number controls to the mode page.  This caused the group to identify
concerns about the inclusion of per-LUN and per-port values in a single mode
page.  The group tentatively agreed to assign mode page code 18h to Fibre
Channel LUN control mode page and to keep the existing assignment (19h) to the
Fibre Channel Port control mode page.

6.6    Method for defining very long command blocks (98-188r2) [Houlder]

Gerry Houlder presented a specific proposal for defining long CDBs, using the
7Fh operation code.  While reviewing how to implement the new CDB format in
packetized protocols, changes were suggested in the proposed CDB structure.
Gerry agreed to bring a revised proposal to the next committee meeting.

6.7    Persistent Reservations (98-203r9, -164r1) [Penokie/Snively]

George Penokie described the history of 98-203r9, how 98-203r5 (discussed at
the last meeting) was revised several times over the past weeks to produce
98-203r9.  It was noted that the information formerly contained in 98-164 has
been incorporated in 98-203r9.  The group reviewed 98-203r9 in detail.  Many
corrections were proposed and accepted.

The group unanimously recommended that T10 accept 98-203r9, as revised, for
inclusion in SPC-2.

6.8    Changing Persistent Reserve Service Action Codes (reflector messages)

[Weber]

In light of the version identification capabilities in the standard Inquiry
data, Ralph Weber requested that this topic be withdrawn from consideration.

6.9    Device locks command (98-225r1) [Houlder]

Gerry Houlder presented a specific proposal for definition of a device locks
command (with service action codes) for inclusion in SPC-2.  Gerry gave an
overview of the structure of the proposal, additions to the device model,
command definitions, etc.  Gerry noted that the proposal is in a preliminary
draft stage and changes are anticipated.  He also accepted several comments
for corrections and enhancements to the proposal.

The group discussed the assignment of a mode page code and decided that the
mode page code need not be available for use by all device types.  Based on
this decision, several acceptable page code values were given to Gerry along
with associated restrictions.  Gerry agreed to choose from the page codes
provided.

Gerry agreed to bring a revised proposal to the next meeting.

6.10   ASCQ for resource conflicts (98-229r0) [Penokie]

George Penokie presented a request for a new ASCQ under the SYSTEM RESOURCE
FAILURE (55h) ASC.  Concerns were raised about the proposed usage of the ASCQ.
In response to comments from the group, the text description was changed to
INSUFFICIENT RESOURCES.  On a vote of 15:0:2, the group recommended that the
plenary approve 98-229r0, as revised (98-229r1), in SPC-2.

6.11   Machine readable version control in SPC-2 (reflector messages)
[Milligan]

Gene Milligan described the history of the version byte in the standard
Inquiry data and the limitations of the mechanism.  The group discussed Gene's
past proposal for machine readable version information.  Several suggestions
were made regarding the content of such a proposal, should one be written.
Gene agreed to bring a specific proposal to the next meeting.

6.12   Obsolete Communications Device Type [Oetting]

Erich Oetting led a discussion of whether the communications device type
should be made obsolete in SSC.  He described the concerns of the SSC letter
ballot review meeting that resulted in the proposal that the communications
device type be made obsolete.  The group expressed the desire to review the
proposal within their organizations and to make an industry-wide public
announcement of the proposal on the T10 reflector.

6.13   Obsolete Flag Bit (98-241r0) [Snively]

Bob Snively presented a proposal that the Flag bit be made obsolete.  John
Lohmeyer asked Bob to distribute the proposal in ASCII text on the T10
reflector, and Bob took an action item to do so.  Bob received tentative
approval to leave the Flag bit out of FCP-2 provided he includes an editor's
note indicating the tentative nature of the change.

The group agreed to make no other changes in other standards regarding the
Flag bit pending an industry review of the proposal to make the Flag bit
obsolete.

6.14   Prohibit Write Exclusive in Persistent Reservations for Tapes [Oetting]

The group agreed that the tape device model (in SSC) can put N/A in columns of
the reservation conflicts table that do not apply to the tape device model.

7.     Other Topics

7.1    Optical Memory Card International Issues (98-151) [Smith]

Gene Milligan reported that no action is necessary at this time because Japan
has not sent a revised document for review.

8.     Meeting Schedule

The next meeting of SCSI Working Group will be Wednesday, March 10, 1999 in
Harrisburg, PA hosted by AMP, Inc. at a location to be determined.  The
meeting will begin on Wednesday morning at 9 a.m. until 7 p.m. (or until all
agenda items are completed).

9.     Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 10:50 p.m. on Wednesday November 4, 1998.


--
John Lohmeyer                  Email: lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
LSI Logic Corp.                Voice: +1-719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr.              Fax: +1-719-533-7036
Colo Spgs, CO 80907              BBS: +1-719-533-7950

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