Draft Minutes of SCSI Working Group - May 5-6, 1998

John Lohmeyer john.lohmeyer at symbios.com
Tue May 12 15:47:26 PDT 1998


* From the T10 (formerly SCSI) Reflector (t10 at symbios.com), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <john.lohmeyer at symbios.com>
*
The minutes of this meeting are also available in PDF format from:

  ftp://ftp.symbios.com/pub/standards/io/t10/document.98/98-147r0.pdf


Accredited Standards Committee*
National Committee for Information Technology Standards (NCITS)

                                                      Doc. No.: T10/98-147r0
                                                          Date: May 12, 1998
                                                      Reply to: John Lohmeyer

To:       T10 Membership
From:     Ralph Weber / John Lohmeyer
Subject:  SCSI Working Group Meeting -- May 5-6, 1998
          Colorado Springs, CO

Agenda

1. Opening Remarks
2. Approval of Agenda
3. Attendance and Membership
4. Enhance Parallel Interface (EPI) Technical Report
4.1 EPI Editorial Review [Ham]
4.2 New Expander Proposal (98-158r0) [McGrath]
4.3 REQ/ACK Counting (98-166r0) [Guss]
5. Protocol Topics
5.1 LFP INQUIRY and MODE SENSE data format (97-241r2) [Lamers]
5.2 End to End CRC Proposal (97-283) [Basham]
6. Command Set Topics
6.1 SCSI Socket/SSL Services (SSS) Review () [Parker]
6.2 QErr Recovery in HAP (97-187) []
6.3 High-Availability Profile (HAP) [Hagerman]
6.4 GET CONFIGURATION command and feature descriptions for SPC-2 (98-169 and
98-170) [Sims]
6.5 Making the Terminate Task Management Function Obsolete in SPI-3 [Snively]
6.6 FCP-2 [Snively]
6.6.1 Enhancements for Tape (98-165r0) [Wanamaker]
6.7 Proposal for Writable Device Identifiers (98-112r0) [Coughlan]
6.8 SAM-2 Issues [Weber]
6.9 Which port changes for SPC-2 (98-145r0) [Weber]
6.10 Add PLPB feature to mode page 19h (98-106r1) [Houlder]
6.11 Persistent Reservations clarifications for SPC-2 (98-124r1) [Snively]
6.12 New Log Page Requirements (98-128r1) [Snively]
6.13 SCSI Extensions for Networked Attached Storage (98-163) [Houlder]
6.14 Command Behavior Under Reservations (98-164r0) [Snively]
7. Other Topics
7.1 Optical Memory Card International Issues (98-151) [Smith]
7.2 Proposed Double Edge/CRC Signal Usage [McGrath]
8. Meeting Schedule
9. Adjournment

Results of Meeting

1.   Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer, the T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m.,
Tuesday May 5, 1998.  He thanked Symbios for allowing him to host the meeting.

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.

2.   Approval of Agenda

The draft agenda was approved with the following additions and changes:

4.2 New Expander Proposal (98-158r0) [McGrath]
4.3 REQ/ACK Counting (98-166r0) [Guss]
6.6.1 Enhancements for Tape (98-165r0) [Wanamaker]
6.13 SCSI Extensions for Networked Attached Storage (98-163) [Houlder]

The following agenda items were added during the course of the meeting:

6.14 Command Behavior Under Reservations (98-164r0) [Snively]
7.2 Proposed Double Edge/CRC Signal Usage [McGrath]
3.   Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for T10 membership.  Working group meetings are open to any
person or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of
work.  The following people attended the meeting:

         Name          S        Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Lawrence J. Lamers P  Adaptec, Inc.             ljlamers at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Ron Roberts        A  Apple Computer            rkroberts at aol.com
Mr. Douglas Wagner     P  Berg Electronics          wagnerdl at bergelect.com
Mr. Edward Haske       O  CMD Technology            haske at cmd.com
Mr. Robert C. Elliott  P  Compaq Computer Corp.     Robert.Elliott at compaq.com
Mr. Bill Galloway      A  Compaq Computer Corp.     Bill.Galloway at compaq.com
Mr. Greg McSorley      P  Data General / Clariion   greg_mcsorley at dg.com
Mr. Douglas Hagerman   P  Digital Equipment Corp.   douglas.hagerman at digital.
                                                    com
Dr. William Ham        A# Digital Equipment Corp.   bill.ham at digital.com
Mr. Sid Snyder         A# Digital Equipment Corp.   sid.snyder at digital.com
Mr. Roger Cummings     P  Distributed Processing    cummings_roger at dpt.com

                          Tech.
Mr. Tom Jackson        A  Exabyte Corp.             thomasj at exabyte.com
Mr. Mark Hammang       A  FCPA Intellistor          mhammang at intellistor.com
                          (Fujitsu)
Mr. Don Vohar          A  Fujitsu (FCPA)            dvohar at fcpa.fujitsu.com
Mr. J. R. Sims         P  Hewlett Packard Co.       robsims at hootie.lvld.hp.
                                                    com
Mr. George Penokie     P  IBM Corp.                 gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. Tim Bradshaw       P  Iomega Corp.              bradshat at iomega.com
Mr. Hayden Smith       O  Lasercard Systems Corp.   hsmith at lasercard.com
Mr. Dean Wallace       P  Linfinity Micro           75671.3443 at compuserve.com
Mr. Alan Littlewood    P  LSI Logic Corp.           alanl at lsil.com
Mr. Chuck Grant        A  Madison Cable Corp.       charles_grant at madisonusa.
                                                    ccmail.compuserve.com
Mr. Jay Neer           A  Molex Inc.                jneer at molex.com
Mr. Edward A. Gardner  P  Ophidian Designs          eag at ophidian.com
Mr. Skip Jones         P  QLogic Corp.              sk_jones at qlc.com
Mr. Ting Li Chan       A  QLogic Corp.              t_chan at qlc.com
Mr. Chuck Micalizzi    V  QLogic Corp.              c_micalizzi at qlc.com
Mr. James McGrath      A# Quantum Corp.             JMCGRATH at QNTM.COM
Mr. Bruce Leshay       V  Quantum Corp.             bleshay at tdh.qntm.com
Mr. Richard Uber       V  Quantum Corp.             duber at tdh.qntm.com
Mr. Gene Milligan      P  Seagate Technology        Gene_Milligan at notes.
                                                    seagate.com
Mr. Gerald Houlder     A  Seagate Technology        Gerry_Houlder at notes.
                                                    seagate.com
Mr. Daniel (Dan) F.    O  Seagate Technology        daniel_f_smith at notes.
Smith                                               seagate.com
Mr. Dave Guss          P  Silicon Systems, Inc.     dave.guss at tus.ssi1.com
Mr. Erich Oetting      P  Storage Technology Corp.  erich_oetting at stortek.com
Mr. Doug Charnley      A  Storage Technology Corp.  doug_charnley at stortek.com
Mr. Robert N. Snively  P  Sun Microsystems          bob.snively at sun.com
                          Computer Co
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  Symbios, Inc.             lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Dave Evans         A# Symbios, Inc.             dephoto at goldrush.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber     A  Symbios, Inc.             roweber at acm.org
Mr. Graeme Weston-     A# Symbios, Inc.             gwl at symbios.com
Lewis
Ms. Renee Depew        O  Symbios, Inc.             renee.depew at symbios.com
Mr. Bill Schmitz       V  Symbios, Inc.             bill.schmitz at symbios.com
Mr. Frank Banul        V  Texas Instuments          f-banul at ti.com
Mr. Arlan P. Stone     A  UNISYS Corporation        arlan.stone at unisys.com
Mr. Dave Wehrman       O  UNISYS Corporation        dave.wehrman2 at unisys.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi     P  Unitrode Corporation      aloisi at unitrode.com
Mr. Jeffrey L.         P  Western Digital           Jeffrey.L.Williams at wdc.
Williams                  Corporation               com
Mr. Doug Piper         P  Woven Electronics         doug.piper at internetmci.
                                                    com

48 People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
             A,A# -  Alternate
             O    -  Observer
             L    -  Liaison
             V    -  Visitor

4.   Enhance Parallel Interface (EPI) Technical Report

4.1  EPI Editorial Review [Ham]

Bill Ham conducted a review of EPI revision 14.  Concerns were raised about
the patent statement and Bill agreed to insert the correct patent statement.
SBC was cited as a source of the patent statement to be used when no patents
have been claimed.  The latest revision of SPI-2 was cited as a source of the
patent statement to be used when a patent has been claimed.

Bill noted that his goal is moving EPI toward first public review.  In that
vein, he accepted editorial comments as well as technical comments.  Noticing

the tedious progress, Bill suggested that an editing meeting be scheduled.
June 12, 1998 in St. Petersburg Beach, FL with T11 was agreed to by the
interested parties.  John Lohmeyer agreed to contact Chuck Brill regarding
meeting room arrangements and to set up a conference call for those who cannot
attend in person.

Bill then changed the focus of the review to technical issues.

4.2  New Expander Proposal (98-158r0) [McGrath]

Jim McGrath reviewed his notes from the SPI-3 Working Group meeting (minutes
in 98-146) regarding the desired contents of a proposal for managing bus
expanders in an environment that uses both single- and double-edge clocking.
He noted the critical need is to provide for the two clocking schemes and
suggested other areas where notification to bus expanders might be useful
(e.g., QAS, CRC for double-edge clocking, packetized, Fast-80, and possible
others).

Jim reviewed the use of the IUTR (Information Unit Transfer Request, see
98-230r5) message for establishing communications parameters between
initiators and targets.  He then described the concept of adding a message
communication specifically for new bus expanders that informs the bus
expanders of the results of the successful negotiation.  The group discussed
the relationships between IUTR messages, the new expander message, and
proposed communications test messages.  Jim reviewed all the steps in the IUTR
negotiation, bus expander notification, testing, and completion IUTR sequence.

Jim concluded by reviewing the bus expander's perspective.  The bus expander
is responsible for setting up the correct bus conditions (double-edge
clocking, etc.) on each selection.  The bus expander can use the information
communicated in the new message to assist in meeting its responsibilities.

Jim agreed to provide a first revision of the proposal in time for the May 22,
1998 SPI-3 ad hoc meeting (see 98-146 meeting schedule).

4.3  REQ/ACK Counting (98-166r0) [Guss]

Dave Guss described the history of his proposal on counting REQ and ACK pulses
(previously 97-216) and then described the new, one page proposal (98-166r0).
The group discussed incorporating 98-166 into EPI or a draft standard (e.g.,
SPI-3) and agreed that it should not be incorporated in any formal committee
documents, but rather remain a committee document.  The group thanked Dave for
his efforts.

5.   Protocol Topics

5.1  LFP INQUIRY and MODE SENSE data format (97-241r2) [Lamers]

Larry Lamers requested that discussion of this item be deferred to the July
meeting.

5.2  End to End CRC Proposal (97-283) [Basham]

George Penokie requested that this item be removed from this and future
agenda.

6.   Command Set Topics

6.1  SCSI Socket/SSL Services (SSS) Review () [Parker]

In the absence of Keith Parker, discussion of this item was deferred to the
July meeting.

6.2  QErr Recovery in HAP (97-187) []

Based on the minutes of the March meeting, Ralph Weber reported that the issue
in this area is a specific QErr code value that should not be used in
multi-initiator environments.

6.3  High-Availability Profile (HAP) [Hagerman]

Doug Hagerman reported that no HAP topics were ready for discussion at this
meeting.

6.4  GET CONFIGURATION command and feature descriptions for SPC-2 (98-169 and
98-170) [Sims]

Rob Sims presented an overview of the Get Configuration command (98-169r0) and
distributed a proposal to add the Get Configuration command to SPC-2 (98-170).
The group was generally receptive to adding the Get Configuration command to
SPC-2.  It was noted the 98-170 proposal includes another new command Get
Event/Status Notification and changes to the Prevent/Allow Medium Removal
command.  Rob stated that the latter two items are not being proposed for
addition to SPC-2 at this time and agreed to revise the proposal to remove
them.

6.5  Making the Terminate Task Management Function Obsolete in SPI-3 [Snively]

Bob Snively asked if making Terminate Task obsolete would hurt anyone.  Gene
Milligan reported on a similar request he made on the T10 Reflector a few

months ago.  The Reflector request for opposition to making Terminate Task
obsolete produced only one response.  The response offered no existent use of
Terminate Task while stating, "but, I can see a use for it."

Requests were made for a paper proposal.  Gene referenced his letter ballot
comment on forwarding of SPI-2, which was rejected due to inappropriate timing
(see 98-108r2 Seagate comment number 127).

In the absence of any objections, the working group unanimously recommended
that Terminate Task be made obsolete in SAM-2, SPC-2, SPI-3, FCP-2, and other
SCSI standards that have not been forwarded.

6.6  FCP-2 [Snively]

Bob Snively asked if everybody had seen the document reviewing initial changes
for FCP-2 (97-266).  He noted that work on tape support may produce additional
proposals for FCP-2, such as mechanisms for detecting out of order command
delivery and status confirmation (i.e. the "ACK signal" on the status phase).

6.6.1  Enhancements for Tape (98-165r0) [Wanamaker]

The group was unable to address this item in time and it was deferred to the
July meeting.

6.7  Proposal for Writable Device Identifiers (98-112r0) [Coughlan]

Ralph Weber reported that Tom Coughlan will not attend this meeting and asked
that this item be deferred to the July meeting.

6.8  SAM-2 Issues [Weber]

Ralph Weber presented a couple dozen specific editor's notes from SAM-2
revisions 4 and 5 and solicited group input on the resolution of the issues
they raise.  All the issues were resolved and Ralph agreed to prepare SAM-2
revision 6 that reflects the group's decisions.  Ralph also announced that
SAM-2 revision 7 will have the object definitions replaced by equivalent
English text.

6.9  Which port changes for SPC-2 (98-145r0) [Weber]

Ralph reported that substantial objections were raised reclaiming the
vendor-specific bit.  He discussed other options with the group and collected
advice for the second revision of the proposal.

6.10 Add PLPB feature to mode page 19h (98-106r1) [Houlder]

Gerry Houlder presented a request for a new bit in the Fibre Channel Control
mode page to manage an aspect of loop bypass capabilities.   The group
discussed the current thinking of the Fibre Channel group regarding loop
bypass.  Concerns were raised about how multiple logical units in a single
target would be handled with respect to the proposed bit, since the bit must
apply to all logical units accessed via a given port.  Following from this,
the group recognized the need for a proposal for SPC-2 to cover the cases
specifically identified.  Gerry agreed to draft a proposal for the July
working group meeting.

In the absence of any objections, the working group recommended that the
plenary accept 98-106r1 for inclusion in FCP-2.

6.11 Persistent Reservations clarifications for SPC-2 (98-124r1) [Snively]

Bob Snively proposed several specific changes needed to clarify the operation
of persistent reservations.  The group suggested edits in the proposal.  In
the absence of any objections, the working group unanimously recommended that
the plenary approve 98-124r2 (r1 as revised) for inclusion in SPC-2.

6.12 New Log Page Requirements (98-128r1) [Snively]

Bob Snively presented the "energy efficient" log page extension proposal,
noting that revisions agreed at the last meeting have been made.  Concerns
were raised about the start-stop cycle lifetime information.  Separating the
start/stop cycle information based on power-off versus use of the Start/Stop
was discussed and rejected.  The group agreed to changes in the temperature
log page.

In the absence of any objections, the working group recommended that 98-128r2
(r1 as revised) be approved for inclusion in SPC-2.

6.13 SCSI Extensions for Networked Attached Storage (98-163) [Houlder]

Gerry Houlder presented a review of issues identified relative to the
development NASD (Network Attach Secure Devices) and SAN (Storage Area
Network) devices.  The need to deliver command-associated data with byte

counts between 80 and 128 bytes was the main issue of current concern.  Gerry
presented four options for moving the command-associated data:

1) Increase CDB size to 128 bytes,
2) Allow both data-in and data-out phases on a single command,
3) Use pairs of linked commands, or
4) Some mechanism that matches pairs of commands without linking.

Reservations were expressed about the unnecessary restrictions in the proposed
device model that preclude consideration of other options.  Suggestions were
offered for device model definitions that might avoid all of the options
(since all of the options were distasteful to some).

In straw poll, the group showed a preference for option 1. But, requests for
details of the device model persisted.

6.14 Command Behavior Under Reservations (98-164r0) [Snively]

Bob Snively asked for opinions regarding a proposal with respect to extent
reservations (in Reserve and Release).  After some discussion, the group
agreed that extent reservations could be made obsolete for Reserve, Release,
and Persistent Reservations.  Bob agreed to announce the proposal at the T10
Plenary and on the T10 Reflector.  Ralph Weber agreed to make the change in
SPC-2 without specific instructions from a written proposal, should T10 decide
to make the change at all.

7.   Other Topics

7.1  Optical Memory Card International Issues (98-151) [Smith]

Hayden Smith and Gene Milligan presented a review of the history of optical
memory cards and standards efforts for them.

The group agreed to assign device type code 0Fh to ISO/IEC 14776-381 "SCSI
Specification for Optical Card Reader/Writer".  Ralph Weber took an action
item to assign device type code 0Fh to ISO/IEC 14776-381 "SCSI Specification
for Optical Card Reader/Writer" in SPC-2.

Concerns were raised about the use of sector/track addressing, with a
preference for logical block addressing such as used by block devices.
However, it was also noted that some SCSI device models use addressing similar
to the sector/track method.

In tables 364 and 365, it was recommended that the byte numbers be changed
|from "0, 1, 2, and 3" to "n, n+1, n+2, and n+3".

In the discussion of mode pages, it was suggest that the WP bit be used to
indicate read-only media, instead of medium-type code.  The medium-type code
was recommended as the mechanism for reporting the type of media supported by
the hardware (apparently there are two non-interchangeable types of optical
card memory).

Concerns were raised about the AT bit in the device-specific parameter in the
mode page header.  Generally, writing bits in the mode header has adverse
effects with some operating systems.  The group recommended creation of a
Optical Memory Card Reader/Writer mode page (page code 03h), with the AT bit
or equivalent being the first entry in the new mode page.

The group recommended that the Peripheral device page be removed from the list
in table 376.  It was also noted that the clause reference for the Medium type
support page should be 9.3.3.4 not 8.3.3.4.

The Read Capacity command was discussed.

The group agreed to collect additional comments from the T10 Reflector.  Gerry
Houlder agreed to act as the manager for comment collection.  The group agreed
that comments must be delivered to Gerry by May 19, 1998.

7.2  Proposed Double Edge/CRC Signal Usage [McGrath]

Jim McGrath summarized discussions about using the previously undefined phases
as the CRC_Valid signal and double edge identifier for bus expanders.  The
group provided Jim advice regarding the content of the specific written
proposal Jim agreed to prepare for the May 22 meeting.  (Chair's note: This
discussion was a continuation of work to resolve the problem discussed in item
4.2 and occurred on the second day of the meeting, whereas the item 4.2
discussion occurred on the first day of the meeting.)

8.   Meeting Schedule

The next meeting of SCSI Working Group will be July 14-15, 1998 in Portland,
ME at the Holiday Inn By the Bay (207-775-2311), hosted by Digital Equipment

Corp.  The meeting will begin at 9:00 a.m. on Tuesday.

9.   Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 6:10 p.m. on Wednesday May 6, 1998.


--
John Lohmeyer                  Email: john.lohmeyer at symbios.com
Symbios, Inc.                  Voice: +1-719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr.              Fax: +1-719-533-7036
Colo Spgs, CO 80907              BBS: +1-719-533-7950

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