Draft Minutes of SCSI Working Group - July 15, 1998

John Lohmeyer lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
Mon Jul 20 14:50:26 PDT 1998


* From the T10 (formerly SCSI) Reflector (t10 at symbios.com), posted by:
* John Lohmeyer <lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com>
*
These minutes are also available in PDF format at:
  ftp://ftp.symbios.com/pub/standards/io/t10/document.98/98-201r0.pdf

Accredited Standards Committee*
National Committee for Information Technology Standards (NCITS)

                                                      Doc. No.: T10/98-201r0
                                                          Date: July 20, 1998
                                                      Reply to: John Lohmeyer

To:      T10 Membership
From:    Ralph Weber / John Lohmeyer
Subject: SCSI Working Group Meeting -- July 15, 1998
         Portland, ME

Agenda
1. Opening Remarks
2. Approval of Agenda
3. Attendance and Membership
4. Physical Topics
4.1 SPI-2 Topics
5. Protocol Topics
5.1 LFP INQUIRY and MODE SENSE data format (97-241r2) [Lamers]
5.2 SAM-2 Revision 7 Review [Weber]
5.2.1 Flat Address Space and LUN 1
6. Command Set Topics
6.1 SCSI Socket/SSL Services (SSS) Review () [Parker]
6.2 QErr Recovery in HAP (97-187) []
6.3 High-Availability Profile (HAP) [Hagerman]
6.4 GET CONFIGURATION command and feature descriptions for SPC-2 (98-169 and
    98-170) [Sims]
6.5 FCP-2 [Snively]
6.5.1 FCP-2 Enhancements for Tape (98-165r1) [Wanamaker]
6.5.2 Modification Proposal (98-206) [Snively]
6.5.3 FCP-2 Initial Changes (97-266r1) [Snively]
6.6 Proposal for Writable Device Identifiers (98-112r0) [Coughlan]
6.7 Discovering if this is SES Port A or Port B (98-145r1) [Weber]
6.8 SCSI Extensions for Networked Attached Storage (98-163) [Houlder]
6.9 Proposal to Obsolete Extent Reservations [Snively]
6.10 Proposal to Obsolete CHANGE DEFINITION command in SPC-2 [Snively]
6.11 World Wide IDs (98-186r0) [Penokie]
6.12 Considerations for mode pages common to several LUNs (98-187r0) [Houlder]
6.13 Method for defining very long command blocks (98-188r0) [Houlder]
6.14 Disable read scan in Informational Exceptions mode page (98-205)
     [Williams]
6.15 Persistent Reservations (98-203) [Penokie/Snively]
6.16 ASC/ASCQ Assignments for RBC [Weber]
7. Other Topics
7.1 Optical Memory Card International Issues (98-151) [Smith] {September
    meeting}
8. Meeting Schedule
9. Adjournment


Results of Meeting

1.     Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer, the T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m.,
Wednesday July 15, 1998.  He thanked Doug Hagerman of Compaq for hosting the
meeting.

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.

2.     Approval of Agenda

The draft agenda was approved with the following additions and changes:

4.1 SPI-2 Topics
5.2.1 Flat Address Space and LUN 1
6.5.2 Modification Proposal (98-206) [Snively]
6.5.3 FCP-2 Initial Changes (97-266r1) [Snively]
6.14 Disable read scan in Informational Exceptions mode page (98-205)
     [Williams]
6.15 Persistent Reservations (98-203) [Penokie/Snively]
6.16 ASC/ASCQ Assignments for RBC [Weber]

No agenda items were added during the course of the meeting.

3.     Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for T10 membership.  Working group meetings are open to any
person or organization directly and materially affected by T10's scope of
work.  The following people attended the meeting:

         Name          S        Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- -- ------------------------- -------------------------
Mr. Lawrence J. Lamers P  Adaptec, Inc.             ljlamers at ieee.org
Mr. Edward Haske       O  CMD Technology            haske at cmd.com
Mr. Robert C. Elliott  P  Compaq Computer Corp.     Robert.Elliott at compaq.com
Mr. Douglas Hagerman   A# Compaq Computer Corp.     douglas.hagerman at digital.
                                                    com
Mr. Sid Snyder         A# Compaq Computer Corp.     sid.snyder at digital.com
Mr. Tom Coughlan       V  Compaq Computer Corp.     tom.coughlan at digital.com
Mr. Roger Cummings     P  Distributed Processing    cummings_roger at dpt.com
                          Tech.
Mr. Tom Jackson        P  Exabyte Corp.             thomasj at exabyte.com
Mr. Frank Wang         A  Exabyte Corp.             frankw at exabyte.com

Mr. Mark Hammang       A  FCPA Intellistor          mhammang at intellistor.com
                          (Fujitsu)
Mr. George Penokie     P  IBM Corp.                 gop at us.ibm.com
Mr. Dan Colegrove      A# IBM Corp.                 colegrov at us.ibm.com
Mr. Dennis Moore       P  KnowledgeTek, Inc.        dmoore at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Pete McLean        P  Maxtor Corp.              pete_mclean at maxtor.com
Mr. Brian McKean       P  Mylex Corp.               brianm at mylexboulder.com
Mr. Edward A. Gardner  P  Ophidian Designs          eag at ophidian.com
Mr. Mark Evans         P  Quantum Corp.             mark.evans at quantum.com
Mr. Patrick McGarrah   A  Quantum Corp.             pat.mcgarrah at quantum.com
Mr. Pak Seto           V  Quantum Corp.             pseto at tdh.qntm.com
Mr. Neil Wanamaker     V  rossroads Systems, Inc.   ntw at crossroads.com
Mr. Gerald Houlder     A  Seagate Technology        Gerry_Houlder at notes.
                                                    seagate.com
Mr. Dave Guss          P  Silicon Systems, Inc.     dave.guss at tus.ssi1.com
Mr. Erich Oetting      P  Storage Technology Corp.  erich_oetting at stortek.com
Mr. David Peterson     O  StorageTek Network Sys.   dap at network.com
                          Grp
Mr. Robert N. Snively  P  Sun Microsystems          bob.snively at sun.com
                          Computer Co
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  Symbios, Inc.             lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber     A  Symbios, Inc.             roweber at acm.org
Ms. Dora M. Deivert    O  The JPM Company           dmdeivert at jpmsj.com
Mr. Glen McCord        O  The JPM Company           emccord at jpmsj.com
Mr. Kenneth J. Hallam  P  UNISYS Corporation        ken.hallam at unisys.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi     P  Unitrode Corporation      aloisi at unitrode.com
Mr. Jeffrey L.         P  Western Digital           Jeffrey.L.Williams at wdc.
Williams                  Corporation               com

32 People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
             A,A# -  Alternate
             O    -  Observer
             L    -  Liaison
             V    -  Visitor

4.     Physical Topics

4.1    SPI-2 Topics

This topic was a continuation of the discussion at the SPI-3 working group
meeting (minutes in 98-200).

George Penokie reported that review of the synchronous data transfer topic
discussed in the SPI-3 working group has determined that the wording in SPI-2
revision 20a (apparently taken from SCSI-2) should be replaced with the
equivalent wording from SPI.  The current SPI-2 wording does not work because
of differences in how SCSI-2 and SPI documented setup and hold timing.  The
group unanimously recommended that the T10 plenary approve 98-204r0 that
includes changing the synchronous transfer description as a non-substantive
change to SPI-2 (which can be made subsequent to public review) and authorize
the T10 chair to replace SPI-2 revision 20a with SPI-2 revision 20b (which
includes only those changes listed in 98-204r0 ) for NCITS processing
following public review, provided no public review comments are received.
5.     Protocol Topics

5.1    LFP INQUIRY and MODE SENSE data format (97-241r2) [Lamers]

George Penokie reported that the issues covered by this topic will be included
in the next revision of the Parallel Protocol Request proposal (98-180r2).

5.2    SAM-2 Revision 7 Review [Weber]

Ralph Weber reported that clause 7.8.5 (in SAM-2 revision 7) needs to be
removed as a result of the decision to make the Terminate Task task management
function obsolete.  The group discussed the report and concluded that no other
practical set of circumstances can be developed to produce the conditions
shown in the example in clause 7.8.5.  Ralph agreed to remove the clause in
the next revision of SAM-2.

5.2.1  Flat Address Space and LUN 1

The group discussed requiring that all logical unit number values conform to
the hierarchical address model in SAM-2.  It was agreed that a flat (single
level) addressing example must be added to clarify the simple case as part of

requiring the hierarchical model.  With that caveat, the working group
unanimously recommended that the T10 plenary approve changing the `should' to
a `shall'.
6.     Command Set Topics

6.1    SCSI Socket/SSL Services (SSS) Review () [Parker]

In the absence of Keith Parker, discussion of this topic was deferred to the
September meeting.

6.2    QErr Recovery in HAP (97-187) []

Based on the minutes of the March meeting (98-126), Ralph Weber reported that
the issue in this area is a specific QErr code value, believed to be 01b, that
should not be used in multi-initiator environments.

6.3    High-Availability Profile (HAP) [Hagerman]

Doug Hagerman requested that discussion of this topic be deferred to the
September meeting.

6.4    GET CONFIGURATION command and feature descriptions for SPC-2 (98-169
and 98-170) [Sims]

In the absence of Rob Sims, discussion of this topic was deferred to the
September meeting.

6.5    FCP-2 [Snively]

6.5.1  FCP-2 Enhancements for Tape (98-165r3) [Wanamaker]

Neil Wanamaker gave a presentation of FCP-2 enhancements proposed for tapes
(98-165r3).  He reviewed the changes discussed in the Joint T10/T11.3 Tape
working group meeting.  His presentation focused on the Command Reference
Number (CRN) proposal.  Neil reported that the information he described will
be written into an annex in the FC-Tape document and into changes made between
FCP and FCP-2.

6.5.2  Modification Proposal (98-206) [Snively]

Bob Snively gave a presentation (98-206r0) describing a problem with changing
AL_PA values after a LIP (Loop Initialization Primitive) and how persistent
reservations can be adjusted to survive intact.  The group discussed the
proposal.  Some of those present felt that the ideas might apply to parallel
SCSI too, if SCAM were being used.

6.5.3  FCP-2 Initial Changes (97-266r2) [Snively]

Bob Snively reviewed a list of changes planned for FCP-2.  The group discussed
several changes.  Bob agreed to revise the document listing planned FCP-2
changes and provide the revised document for the next T10 mailing.

Bob reported that the first draft of FCP-2 will appear no sooner than the end
of September (not in time for the September committee meetings).

6.6    Proposal for Writable Device Identifiers (98-112r1) [Coughlan]

Tom Coughlan presented a proposal for a host writable identifier.  Tom
accepted several suggestions for changes in the proposal.  Concerns were
raised about assigning op codes to the two new commands in Tom's proposal.
Several options were discussed for selecting op codes, but no agreement was
reached.  Tom agreed to prepare a revised proposal for the September meeting.

6.7    Discovering if this is SES Port A or Port B (98-145r1) [Weber]

Ralph Weber presented a revised proposal to add A and B port identification to
the VPD data.  Questions were raised about the added complexity introduced by
the proposal and how the requirements stated in the proposal are restricted to
Identifier type code value 4.  After these questions were addressed, the group
unanimously recommended that 98-145r1 be approved for inclusion in SPC-2.

6.8    SCSI Extensions for Networked Attached Storage (98-163) [Houlder]

Gerry Houlder asked that this item be removed from this and future agendas.

6.9    Proposal to Obsolete Extent Reservations [Snively]

George Penokie reported that the proposal to make extent reservations obsolete
was announced on the T10 Reflector by John Lohmeyer.  John reported that no
one raised any objections to the proposal.  The group unanimously agreed to
recommend that the T10 plenary make extent reservations obsolete for both
Reserve/Release and Persistent Reservations.

6.10   Proposal to Obsolete CHANGE DEFINITION command in SPC-2 [Snively]

George Penokie reported that the proposal to make the CHANGE DEFINITION
command obsolete was announced on the T10 Reflector by John Lohmeyer.  John
reported that no one raised any objections to the proposal.  The group
unanimously agreed to recommend that the T10 plenary make the CHANGE

DEFINITION command obsolete.

6.11   World Wide IDs (98-186r0) [Penokie]

George Penokie presented a detailed discussion of OUI usage and the "canonical
form".  He requested that mention of the "canonical form" be added to SPC-2,
but did not specify the exact location for the addition.  The working group
unanimously recommended that the T10 plenary authorize George and Ralph to add
"canonical form" to SPC-2 in the proper location(s).

6.12   Considerations for mode pages common to several LUNs (98-187r0)
[Houlder]

Gerry Houlder presented a proposal for specific changes in SPC-2 to support
mode pages that are common to several logical units.  The group discussed the
proposal.  Two camps formed around having read/write access to a LUN-common
mode page via only LUN 0 verses having access via all LUNs.  A straw poll
favored the LUN 0 only choice by 7 to 4.  Gerry agreed to reconsider his
proposal based on the results of the straw poll.

6.13   Method for defining very long command blocks (98-188r0) [Houlder]

Gerry Houlder presented a proposal for long CDB sizes, suggesting that a 52
byte CDB might be an acceptable.  Gerry also discussed data encryption,
including encryption of the CDB.  The group discussed the proposed CDB format,
offering several suggestions for future efforts.  Using one operation code in
the currently reserved group (group 3) was thought to be the best way to
implement the large, variable sized CDBs described in the proposal.  It was
suggested that Gerry prepare a specific proposal for changes to SAM-2.  Ralph
Weber, SAM-2 technical editor, offered to assist in preparing the proposal.

6.14   Disable read scan in Informational Exceptions mode page (98-205)
[Williams]

Jeff Williams presented a proposal for adding a newly defined bit to the
Informational Exceptions mode page.  Editorial corrections were proposed and
Jeff agreed to prepare a revised proposal.  The working group unanimously
recommended that 98-205r1 (r0 as revised) be approved for inclusion in SPC-2.

6.15   Persistent Reservations (98-203) [Penokie/Snively]

George Penokie presented a first revision of a proposal to substantially
change the description and definition of persistent reservations.  The group
suggested many changes and George agreed to prepare a new revision for the
next meeting.

Bob Snively presented the table of allowed commands for reservation types
(98-164r0, and a preliminary r1 draft).  The group discussed all the command
entries in the tables, modifying several entries.  Bob agreed to provide a
revised draft for the next T10 mailing.

6.16   ASC/ASCQ Assignments for RBC [Weber]

Ralph Weber requested that the working group recommend approval of the
following ASC/ASCQ assignments in SPC-2 to support RBC:

2C/05 ILLEGAL POWER CONDITION REQUEST

38/00 EVENT STATUS NOTIFICATION
38/02 ESN - POWER MANAGEMENT CLASS EVENT
38/04 ESN - MEDIA CLASS EVENT
38/06 ESN - DEVICE BUSY CLASS EVENT

5E/41 POWER STATE CHANGE TO ACTIVE
5E/42 POWER STATE CHANGE TO IDLE
5E/43 POWER STATE CHANGE TO STANDBY
5E/45 POWER STATE CHANGE TO SLEEP
5E/47 POWER STATE CHANGE TO DEVICE CONTROL

The group discussed whether the proposed ASC/ASCQ definitions are appropriate
or repetitive of some already defined.  The group recommended that the T10
plenary approve the ASC/ASCQ codes for addition to SPC-2.

7.     Other Topics

7.1    Optical Memory Card International Issues (98-151) [Smith] {September
meeting}

In the absence of Hayden Smith, discussion of this topic was deferred to the
September meeting.
8.     Meeting Schedule

The next meeting of SCSI Working Group will be September 16, 1998 in St.
Petersburg Beach, FL hosted by AMP, Inc. at the Tradewinds Hotel (800-808-9833
/ 813-367-6461).  The meeting will begin at 9:00 a.m. on Wednesday.

9.     Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 6:15 p.m. on Wednesday July 15, 1998.

--
John Lohmeyer                  Email: lohmeyer at ix.netcom.com
Symbios, Inc.                  Voice: +1-719-533-7560
4420 ArrowsWest Dr.              Fax: +1-719-533-7036
Colo Spgs, CO 80907              BBS: +1-719-533-7950

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