Minutes of X3T10 SCSI Working Group Meeting -- 9/12-13/95

Lohmeyer, John JLOHMEYE at cosmpdaero.ftcollinsco.ncr.com
Wed Sep 20 09:34:00 PDT 1995


Minutes of X3T10 SCSI Working Group meeting in Bedford, NH 
     X3T10/95-319r0

Accredited Standards Committee*
X3, Information Technology
                                                  Doc. No.: X3T10/95-319r0
                                                      Date: September 20, 
1995
                                                   Project:
                                                 Ref. Doc.:
                                                  Reply to: John Lohmeyer

To:         Membership of X3T10

From:       Ralph Weber, Secretary X3T10
            Larry Lamers, Vice-chair X3T10
            John Lohmeyer, Chair X3T10

Subject:    Minutes of X3T10 SCSI Working Group Meeting
            Bedford, NH -- September 12-13, 1995


                                       Agenda

1. Opening Remarks

2. Approval of Agenda

3. Attendance and Membership

4. Physical Topics
   4.1 SPI-2 and EPI Study Group Report
   4.2 Propagation Delay Length Limit [Ham]
   4.3 EPI Draft Document Outline [Ham]
   4.4 Hybrid SPI-2 (continued) [Spitler]

5. Protocol Topics
   5.1  Addressability of TARGET RESET task management function (94-236r1)
      [Snively]
   5.2 Public Review Comment Resolution on SBP (95-277) [Roberts]
   5.3 FCP use of Disconnect-Reconnect Mode Page (95-208r2) [Gardner]
   5.4 SCSI-3 Interlocked Protocol (SIP) [Penokie]

6. Command Set Topics
   6.1 Persistent Reservations Proposal (95-229r1) [Snively]
   6.2 Set/Sense Environmental Services Function [Snively]
   6.3 Proposed REPORT LUNS command (95-253r1) [Weber]
   6.4 Report supported density codes {for SSC} (95-224r5) [Lappin]
   6.5 Set Capacity (95-260r1) [Houlder]
   6.6 Device Identification Page Proposal (95-240) [Lohmeyer]
   6.7 Reporting Version Information [Milligan]
   6.8 Secure Multiple Port Operations (95-322) [Snively]
   6.9 Informational Exception Control Page [Houlder]

7. Other Topics
   7.1 What is in a name? [Milligan]
   7.2 Systems Issues Considerations [Penman]

8. Meeting Schedule

9. Adjournment



                              Results of Meeting

1.    Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer, the X3T10 Chair, called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m.,
Tuesday September 12, 1995.  He thanked Charles Monia of Digital Equipment
Corp. for hosting the meeting.

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of 
the
attendance list was circulated.  Copies of the draft agenda and general
information on X3T10 were made available to those attending.

2.    Approval of Agenda

The draft agenda was approved with the following additions:

      6.1 Persistent Reservations Proposal (95-229r1) [Snively]
      6.5 Set Capacity (95-260r1) [Houlder]
      6.8 Secure Multiple Port Operations [Snively]
      6.9 Informational Exception Control Page [Houlder]
      7.2 Systems Issues Considerations [Penman]

3.    Attendance and Membership

Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum
attendance requirements for X3T10 membership.  Working group meetings are
open to any person or organization directly and materially affected by
X3T10's scope of work.

The following people attended the meeting:

         Name          S        Organization         Electronic Mail Address
 ---------------------- -- ------------------------- 
 -------------------------
Mr. Norm Harris        P  Adaptec, Inc.             nharris at eng.adaptec.com
Mr. Lawrence J. Lamers A# Adaptec, Inc.             ljlamers at aol.com
Mr. Edward Fong        P  Amdahl Corp.              esf10 at amail.amdahl.com
Mr. Charles Brill      P  AMP, Inc.                 cebrill at amp.com
Mr. Bob Atkinson       O  AMP, Inc.                 rdatkins at amp.com
Mr. Ron Roberts        A  Apple Computer            rkroberts at aol.com
Mr. Peter Johansson    P  Congruent Software, Inc.  pjohansson at aol.com
Mr. Paul Entzel        O  Conner                    paul.entzel at conner.com
Mr. Charles Monia      P  Digital Equipment Corp.   monia at shr.dec.com
Dr. William Ham        A# Digital Equipment Corp.   ham at subsys.enet.dec.com
Mr. William Dallas     A# Digital Equipment Corp.   dallas at wasted.enet.dec.
                                                    com
Mr. Robert Reisch      P  Eastman Kodak Co.         reisch at sector.kodak.com
Mr. Mark Hamel         V  EMC Corp.                 hamel at emc.com
Mr. Ralph O. Weber     A# ENDL Associate            roweber at acm.org
Mr. Edward Lappin      P  Exabyte Corp.             tedl at exabyte.com
Mr. Andy Chen          A# Fujitsu Computer Prods    achen at fcpa.fujitsu.com
                          Amer
Mr. Tim Norman         A# Fujitsu
                          Microelectronics/ECD
Mr. Zane Daggett       A# Hitachi Cable 
            74354.2576 at compuserve.com
                          Manchester,Inc
Ms. Nancy Cheng        A# Hitachi Computer Products n_cheng at hitachi.com
Mr. George Penokie     P  IBM Corp.                 gop at rchvmp3.vnet.ibm.com
Mr. Duncan Penman      P  IIX Consulting            penman at netcom.com
Mr. David Rosenboom    V  K-Tec Electronics
Mr. Tommy Yeung        V  K-Tec Electronics
Mr. Dean Wallace       P  Linfinity Micro 
          75671.3443 at compuserve.com
Mr. Pete McLean        P  Maxtor Corp.              pete_mclean at maxtor.com
Mr. Param Panesar      O  Pioneer Research
Mr. Skip Jones         P  QLogic Corp.              sk_jones at qlc.com
Mr. James McGrath      P  Quantum Corp.             JMCGRATH at QNTM.COM
Mr. Edward A. Gardner  A  Quantum Corp.             gardner at acm.org
Mr. Gerald Houlder     A  Seagate Technology        Gerry_Houlder at notes.
                                                    seagate.com
Mr. Greg Alvey         V  Solution Technology       g.alvey at genie.geis.com
Mr. Erich Oetting      P  Storage Technology Corp. 
 Erich_Oetting at Stortek.com
Mr. Robert N. Snively  P  Sun Microsystems Computer bob.snively at eng.sun.com
                          Co
Mr. John Lohmeyer      P  Symbios Logic Inc. 
       john.lohmeyer at symbios.com
Mr. Rod DeKoning       V  Symbios Logic Inc.        rod.dekoning at symbios.com
Mr. Tracy Spitler      V  Symbios Logic Inc. 
       tracy.spitler at symbios.com
Mr. Arlan P. Stone     A  UNISYS Corporation 
       arlan.stone at mv.unisys.com
Mr. Paul D. Aloisi     P  Unitrode Integrated       Aloisi at uicc.com
                          Circuits
Mr. Tak Asami          A  Western Digital           asami at dt.wdc.com
                          Corporation

39 People Present

Status Key:  P    -  Principal
             A,A# -  Alternate
             O    -  Observer
             L    -  Liaison
             V    -  Visitor

4.    Physical Topics

John Lohmeyer reported that Fast-20 has completed first public review
successfully.  The editing changes from ANSI have been incorporated and will
need a vote of approval at the plenary.

      4.1   SPI-2 and EPI Study Group Report

Bill Ham reported on the SPI-2 study group (see 95-316).  The model of the
terminator was reworked.

      4.2   Propagation Delay Length Limit [Ham]

This topic is a carry-over from the SPI-2 meeting.

The propagation time allowed was discussed.  Bill has a formula to calculate
the length:

            (200-Tdd-2Trecevier)/Tpd

where Tdd is the summation of the delay in all devices; Tr is the 
propagation
delay through the transceivers; Tpd is the propagation speed of the medium.
The Tr is not needed if specified at the connector.

      4.3   EPI Draft Document Outline [Ham]

This topic is a carry-over from the SPI-2 meeting.

Bill Ham reviewed the document outline (see 95-320).  Charles Monia
volunteered to prepare a proposal for the LUN Bridge topic.

      4.4   Hybrid SPI-2 (continued) [Spitler]

Tracy Spitler presented the packaging issues related to Hybrid SPI-2 for
terminators.  This issue will get further discussion at the next SPI-2 
working
group.

5.    Protocol Topics

      5.1   Addressability of TARGET RESET task management function 
(94-236r1)
            [Snively]

Bob review his proposal for a TARGET RESET task management function.  He
accepted an action item to craft a paragraph(s) for SAM-2 on hierarchy.  A 
new
message value in SIP for LOGICAL UNIT RESET was requested.

      5.2   Public Review Comment Resolution on SBP (95-277) [Roberts]

Resolution of the public review comments was completed at the last SBP study
group meeting.  Complete information should be available in the next 
mailing.
A project proposal for an SBP-2 standard will be made at the plenary.

      5.3   FCP use of Disconnect-Reconnect Mode Page (95-208r2) [Gardner]

Ed Gardner led a discussion of 95-208r2.  There was a lengthy discussion of
whether the single page format should apply to all protocols.  The most
favored alternative was making the contents of the entire mode page protocol
specific.  Eventually, the working group supported continuation of the 
current
(protocol common mode page) definition condition.  This was confirmed in a
straw-poll vote of 13:2.

Having settled the general issue, the group discussed specific wording
problems with specific fields in the mode page.  A very small number of
editorial changes were made.  George Penokie discussed details of the 
proposed
SIP definitions.  George expressed general approval of the SIP proposals.

In the absence of any objections, the working group recommended that the
plenary approve the proposal, as revised.

      5.4   SCSI-3 Interlocked Protocol (SIP) [Penokie]

George Penokie brought in rev 6 and went through a review of the document.

6.    Command Set Topics

      6.1   Persistent Reservations Proposal (95-229r1) [Snively]

Bob Snively presented the latest draft of the Persistent Reservation 
proposal,
95-229r1.  Several issues were raised for Bob to review for more possible
changes in the proposal.  The changes were considered to be editorial. In 
the
absence of any objections, the working group unanimously recommended that 
the
plenary adopt 95-229r1, as modified, for inclusion in the SPC.

      6.2   Set/Sense Environmental Services Function [Snively]

Bob requested guidance from the working group regarding enclosure services
(services that manage or detect the state of a drive or device enclosure). 
 He
used a very high level summary slide, 95-324, as the basis of the 
discussion.
Bob led a lively discussion and received substantial advice.  At the end of
the discussion, Bob agreed to draft a specific proposal, probably based on 
the
RECEIVE DIAGNOSTIC RESULTS command.

      6.3   Proposed REPORT LUNS command (95-253r1) [Weber]

Ralph presented 95-253r2 and several editorial corrections and enhancements
were proposed by the working group.  Ralph accepted all the proposals.  The
working group discussed whether the proposed command should be optional or
mandatory.  After a couple of straw-poll votes, it was clear that the 
working
group favored making the new command optional.

      6.4   Report supported density codes {for SSC} (95-224r5) [Lappin]

Ted asked that the working group review 95-224r5, which was in the mailing 
and
contained many corrections proposed by the last working group meeting.  In 
the
absence of any objections, the group recommended that the plenary approve 
95-
224r5 for inclusion in the SSC.

      6.5   Set Capacity (95-260r1) [Houlder]

Gerry Houlder presented 95-260r1.  Issues were raised concerning system
failures that occur during the process of partitioning disk space.  In
addition, questions were raised about the problems resulting from deletion 
of
a LUN space definition that is sandwiched between two other LUN space
definitions.

The action of the FORMAT UNIT after partitioning was discussed and concerns
were raised about the lack of a specific statement in the proposal.  The
working group directed Gerry to redraft the proposal to match the original
issues that it was intended to address, and eliminate many of the bells and
whistles that were added since the last meeting.  Furthermore, it was
concluded that the redrafted proposal should be brought to the next working
group meeting.

      6.6   Device Identification Page Proposal (95-240) [Lohmeyer]

John stated that he is waiting on input from Gene who is waiting on input 
from
IEEE.

      6.7   Reporting Version Information [Milligan]

Gene Milligan was not present to lead a discussion of this topic.

      6.8   Secure Multiple Port Operations (95-322) [Snively]

Bob Snively presented 95-322r0, a preliminary draft proposal for extending
persistent reservations to become a security tool.  Concerns were raised 
about
the ability to spoof some key identifiers in the proposed system.  It was
concluded that spoofing will always (or almost always) be possible.

Bob next presented details of the preliminary proposal.  Concerns were 
raised
about the mechanisms by which proposed security features are protected.  Bob
proposed that factory intervention is required in some key cases.  Some
working group members preferred that power failures automatically reset the
passwords that apply in the same cases.

Bob agreed to draft a specific proposal based on the ideas discussed by the
working group.

      6.9   Informational Exception Control Page [Houlder]

Gerry Houlder briefly presented the proposal originally written by Gene
Milligan.  In the absence of any objections, the working group unanimously
recommended that the plenary accept 95-323r0 for inclusion in the SPC.


7.    Other Topics

      7.1   What is in a name? [Milligan]

Gene Milligan was not present to lead a discussion of this topic.

      7.2   Systems Issues Considerations [Penman]

Duncan Penman noted that a project proposal for a technical report will be
presented to the plenary for action.  The proposed technical report will
concern PC Boot Considerations for Devices >8GByte and is document number
95-298r1.

Duncan asked the working group for advice regarding the continued existence 
of
the system issues working group.  He noted that most of the issues that have
come before the system issues working group have concerned AT.  In view of
this fact and other changes around AT standards work, Duncan recommended 
that
the SCSI system issues topics be returned to the SCSI working group agenda 
and
that the systems issues working group cease regularly scheduled meetings.

8.    Meeting Schedule

The next meeting of X3T10 SCSI Working Group will be November 7-8, 1995, in
Palm Springs, CA at the Hyatt Regency Suites (619-322-9000), hosted by 
Western
Digital.

9.    Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 3:03 p.m. on Wednesday September 13, 1995.




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