Minutes - X3T10

Larry=Lamers%ENG7%MCA at sanjose3.maxtor.com Larry=Lamers%ENG7%MCA at sanjose3.maxtor.com
Fri Jan 21 09:49:34 PST 1994


The size of the Message Text is 25434(> 6K), So it is kept in the First Attachmen

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Gentlemen - Included below are the preliminary minutes of the X3T10 meeting 
held in San Diego.

Accredited Standards Committee

                                                           Doc. No.: 
X3T10/94-016r0
                                                               Date: January 
14, 1994
                                                            Project: 
                                                          Ref. Doc.: 
                                                           Reply to: John 
Lohmeyer

To:         Membership of X3T10

From:       Lawrence J. Lamers, Acting Secretary X3T10
            John B. Lohmeyer, Acting Chair X3T10

Subject:    Minutes of X3T10 Plenary Meeting #1
            San Diego, CA -- January 13, 1994


                                    Agenda


1.    Opening Remarks

2.    Approval of Agenda

3.    Attendance and Membership

4.    X3 Tutorial

5.    Approval of Minutes - November Meeting Colo Spgs, CO (X3T9.2/93-
      176r1)

6.    Document Distribution

7.    Call for Patents

8.    Review of Old Action Items

9.    Subgroup and/or Project Status Reports
   9.1   Project Status Summary [Lohmeyer]
   9.2   SCSI-2 Status [Lamers]
   9.3   SCSI Common Access Method (CAM) [Dallas]
   9.4   AT Attachment Status (ATA) [Lamers]
   9.5   ATA Extensions (ATA-2) [Finch]
   9.6   SCSI-3 Architecture Model (SAM) Status [Monia]
   9.7   SCSI-3 Parallel Interface (SPI) Status [Lamers]
   9.8   SCSI-3 Interlocked Protocol (SIP) Status [Lamers]
   9.9   SCSI-3 Generic Packetized Protocol (GPP) Status [Stephens]
   9.10  SCSI-3 Serial Bus Protocol (SBP) Status [Marazas]
   9.11  SCSI-3 Fiber Channel Protocol (FCP) Status [Snively]
   9.12  SCSI-3 Primary Commands (SPC) Status [Weber]
   9.13  SCSI-3 Block Commands (SBC) [open]
   9.14  SCSI-3 Stream Commands (SSC) [open]
   9.15  SCSI-3 Graphics Commands (SGC) [open]
   9.16  SCSI-3 Medium Changer Commands (SMC) [open]
   9.17  Directly-Addressable Device Interface (DADI) []
   9.18  SCSI Common Access Method -2 (CAM-2) (93-082) [Dallas]
   9.19  SCSI-3 Serial Storage Protocol (SSP) [Scheible]
   9.20  SCSI-3 Controller Commands (SCC) (93-130) [Hagerman]
   9.21  Replacement of ANSI X3.80-1988, Interfaces Between Flexible Disk
         Cartridges and Their Host Controllers, with ISO 9315:1989.
   9.22  RAID Study Group [Penokie]

10.   Old Business
   10.1  Technical Information Bulletins
   10.2  GPP: Standard or Technical Report? [Milligan] ()

11.   New Business
   11.1  X3T10 Subscription Mailing Program
   11.2  Review of new documents
   11.3  Task Set Basis Selection
   11.4  Delivery Mechanism Sequentiality
   11.5  SCC Project Proposal
   11.6  MMC Project Proposal

12.   ISO [Milligan]

13.   Liaison Reports
   13.1  X3T10.1 Task Group Report [Scheible]
   13.2  X3T9.3 Liaison Report [Cummings]
   13.3  Small Form Factor Industry Group [Allan]
   13.4  IEEE P1394 [Marazas]
   13.5  IT8 [Lohmeyer]
   13.6  IEEE P1285 Status [Pak]
   13.7  PCMCIA Report
   13.8  AIIM C21 [Podio]

14.   Review of Action Items

15.   Meeting Schedule
   15.1  Authorization of Working Group Meetings

16.   Adjournment



                              Results of Meeting

1.    Opening Remarks

John Lohmeyer, the Acting Chair, called the meeting to order at 1:00 p.m.,
Thursday January 13, 1994.  He thanked Rich Bailly of Vitro Corp. for
arranging and hosting the first meeting of X3T10.  John said that he had
copies of the call for volunteers to Chair X3T10 for anyone who wishes to
apply.

John said that X3 Subgroup Membership forms and X3T10 Mailing Subscription
form were available on the document table.  He said that people should use
the X3 forms to insure the X3 Secretariat has the latest membership
information.  The X3 Membership forms and the X3T10 Mailing Subscription
forms should be mailed to the X3 Secretariat.

He also announced that any eligible organization may join X3T10 at the
meeting by giving John a letter stating their interest in X3T10 and naming
the principal and alternate members.  Form letters were available for those
who forgot to bring a letter with them.

As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves and a copy of the
attendance list was circulated.  Copies of the draft agenda and general
information on X3T10 were made available to those attending.

2.    Approval of Agenda

The draft agenda was approved with the following additions:

11.3    Task Set Basis Selection
11.4    Delivery Mechanism Sequentiality

3.    Attendance and Membership

The membership requirements were reviewed.  X3 rules permit one vote per
organization.  An individual from a new organization must attend two out of
three consecutive plenary meetings.  He/she may apply for voting membership
the second meeting via a letter to the Chair of X3T10.  The individual may
vote at the second plenary meeting.  Working group meetings do not count
toward attendance requirements.  Since the meeting was the first meeting of
X3T10, it was a special case and those present were permitted to join without
prior attendance.

Organizations must also pay the X3 Service Fee ($300) to maintain membership. 
This year, the International Participation fee ($300) will be billed
separately directly from ANSI.

The X3 Secretariat will be invoicing all former X3T9.2 members for X3T10
membership.  Those that do not wish to join the new committee should return
their invoice marked "cancel".  New members of X3T10 who were not on the
X3T9.2 roster will receive an invoice eventually.

The initial X3T10 membership was __ organizations.  Enclosure (1) is the list
of the people present at the meeting and enclosure (2) is the current X3T10
membership list.

4.    X3 Tutorial

Per the requirements in 4.6.2 of the Organization, Rules and Procedures of
X3 (SD-2), "Each newly formed TC shall establish time on its first agenda
prior to conducting any technical business for presentation of an overview
on X3 and its procedure."  John Hill of OMC was present to give the overview
(see X3T10/94-034).

5.    Approval of Minutes - November Meeting Colo Spgs, CO (X3T9.2/93-176r1)

The minutes were approved as written.

The motion regarding deferral of consideration of GPP needs to set a specific
date.

6.    Document Distribution

Members who have any problems with their mailing subscription should deal
directly with Katrina Gray at (202) 626-5741.

Larry Lamers requested that all documents for the next mailing must be sent
so as to be received by noon on Friday, January 21, 1994.  Documents received
after this date will go into a subsequent mailing.

Larry Lamers reminded the committee of the requirements for document
submission to be included in the committee mailing.  Since X3T10 meets its
CBEMA document archiving requirements by including CBEMA on the mailing list,
documents included in the mailing must be suitable for microfilming.  This
means that high-quality, single-sided originals with adequate margins and
proper identification must be submitted.  Document X3T9.2/92-84 R1 contains
the list of requirements for submissions.

As usual, minutes are also available on the SCSI BBS (719-574-0424) and will
be distributed to the SCSI Reflector E-mail list.  To be added to the SCSI
Reflector, send an electronic message to: scsiadm at WichitaKS.NCR.COM.

The current document register is enclosure (3).


7.    Call for Patents

This is a regular agenda item to identify any potential patent issues with
developing standards.

A document is available from ANSI, "Procedures for the Development and
Coordination of American National Standards", at no charge.  The last page
contains the ANSI patent policy.

X3 has recently approved two patent statements, one for the case where no
patents have been identified and another for the case where patent(s) have
been identified and the patent holder(s) have agreed to comply with the ANSI
patent policy.

Gene Milligan asked about a statement in SSA SCSI-3 mapping.  John Scheible
stated that the statement was only applicable to SSA physical and will be
removed in the next revision.

8.    Review of Old Action Items

1)    John Lohmeyer will contact Marilyn Courtot regarding AIIM activity.
      Carry Over.
2)    John Lohmeyer will contact Fernando Podia regarding liaison reports. 
      Carry Over.

John Lohmeyer stated that for X3T10 action items would be numbered
sequentially without end until the committee ceases as a viable organization.

9.    Subgroup and/or Project Status Reports

9.1   Project Status Summary [Lohmeyer]

John Lohmeyer presented the current X3T10 project status summary.

9.2   SCSI-2 Status [Lamers]

At BSR and approved, but letter not received.

9.3   SCSI Common Access Method (CAM) [Dallas]

Ralph Weber reported.  Rev 5 has been prepared to address public review
comments.  There were significant editorial comments that need to be
reviewed.  The next working group will have expanded hours to deal with the
further editorial comments.  

Gene Milligan moved and Ralph Weber seconded that revision 5 be accepted as
the current working draft document for CAM.  The motion passed 35:0.

9.4   AT Attachment Status (ATA) [Lamers]

John Lohmeyer reported that ATA had passed its second public review and is
now ready for the X3 letter ballot.  The X3 Secretariat held up the ballot
waiting for X3T10 to incorporate the correct ANSI patent statement.  Since
no patents have been identified to date, the appropriate statement will be
included by the technical editor and the document will be released for X3
letter ballot.

9.5   ATA Extensions (ATA-2) [Finch]

The ATA extensions project is being driven to conclusion so that it can be
forwarded.  

Project proposals for ATA-3 standards are being drafted.  ATA-3 will included
a layered document with faster transfer rates and added device type support.

The first set of projects will deal with ATA-PH, ATA-XPT, ATA-BC, ATA-PI.

A reflector for ATA has been established.  Send an email to
majordomo at dt.wdc.com.  The email should contain a line that states "subscribe
ata yourinternetaddress".

9.6   SCSI-3 Architecture Model (SAM) Status [Monia]

Charles Monia reported responses have been prepared to the letter ballot
comments.  All responses will be or have been posted to the SCSI reflector.

There are two issues that need plenary action.

The next revision of SAM will be available prior to the next plenary. 
Charles will mail a copy of the document to anyone requesting it.  It will
not be in the next mailing.

9.7   SCSI-3 Parallel Interface (SPI) Status [Lamers]

The SPI first public review is October 29, 1993 to February 26, 1994.  At its
September '93 meeting, X3T9.2 authorized its chairman to submit a public
review comment requesting that SCAM be incorporated into SPI as a normative
annex.

9.8   SCSI-3 Interlocked Protocol (SIP) Status [Lamers]

An editors meeting was held in December.  More work needs to be done. 
Another working group meeting will be scheduled.

9.9   SCSI-3 Generic Packetized Protocol (GPP) Status [Stephens]

Gary Stephens reported.  Several changes have been made to accomodate
comments received.  A revision is planned to be available at the next
meeting.

9.10  SCSI-3 Serial Bus Protocol (SBP) Status [Marazas]

Scott Smyers reported.  A working group meeting is scheduled for January 26,
1994 to resolve the letter ballot comments.

9.11  SCSI-3 Fiber Channel Protocol (FCP) Status [Snively]

Robert Snively reported.  Revision 7a is available and address all comments
received from the letter ballot.  Several items came to light in the reveiw
at the last working group.  A revision 8 will be in the next mailing.

Bob requested a letter ballot be conducted to forward FCP in conjunction with
the next mailing.  The chair stated he would make a determination on this
request at the time of the mailing.

9.12  SCSI-3 Primary Commands (SPC) Status [Weber]

Ralph Weber reported.  An outline for the SPC document was in the mailing. 
A first draft will be available at the March meeting.  This topic will be on
the agenda for the next working group.

9.13  SCSI-3 Block Commands (SBC) [open]



9.14  SCSI-3 Stream Commands (SSC) [open]



9.15  SCSI-3 Graphics Commands (SGC) [open]




9.16  SCSI-3 Medium Changer Commands (SMC) [open]




9.17  Directly-Addressable Device Interface (DADI) []

No report.

9.18  SCSI Common Access Method -2 (CAM-2) (93-082) [Dallas]

In suspension.

9.19  SCSI-3 Serial Storage Protocol (SSP) [Scheible]

John Scheible reported.  The project proposal is still in process.  A
proposal for an eventual working draft was in the last mailing.

9.20  SCSI-3 Controller Commands (SCC) (93-130) [Hagerman]

John Lohmeyer reported that while X3T9 did approve the SCC project proposal
in December, they failed to send it OMC for its meeting last week.  The
failure was due to misplacing the project proposal file.


9.21  Replacement of ANSI X3.80-1988, Interfaces Between Flexible Disk
      Cartridges and Their Host Controllers, with ISO 9315:1989.

In April '93, X3T9.2 voted to recommend that simultaneous withdrawal of
X3.80-1988 and adoption of ISO 9315:1989 as an ANSI standard.  X3T9 accepted
this recommendation and voted to make the same recommendation to X3.  The
public review period began October 15, 1993 and closes February 13, 1994.

9.22  RAID Study Group [Penokie]

George Penokie reported.  Two meetings have occurred since the last plenary. 
The RAID model document has been revised.  An extended addressing proposal
has been developed and is stable.  It will be incorporated into the RAID
model.  

10.   Old Business

10.1  Technical Information Bulletins

Gary Stephens had prepared a TIB on the tape partition issue.  Folks are
advised to review it.  It is anticipated that a forwarding motion will be
taken as soon as SCSI-2 is approved.

10.2  GPP: Standard or Technical Report? [Milligan] ()

A motion on whether GPP should be a standard or technical report was
postponed until this meeting:

   Whereas having two I/O protocols for each SCSI physical interconnect is
   a problem for the industry although there may be some niche applications
   where GPP is useful,  Gene Milligan moved and Ed Gardner seconded that
   X3T9.2 take the appropriate steps to convert it from a dpANS and to
   publish it as a technical report. 

The Navy stated support for using GPP in mission critical applications.

Neil Wood moved and Jim McGrath seconded that the question be called 22:8.

The motion carried 37:11:11.

The chair requested a volunteer to revise the project proposal for GPP. 
There were no forth coming volunteers.

11.   New Business


11.1  X3T10 Subscription Mailing Program

Bob Snively moved and Jeff Williams seconded that X3T10 request the X3
Secretariat to initiate a Document Distribution Program for X3T10 and to
transfer the remaining funds from the X3T9.2 Document Distribution Program
to X3T10's fund.  The motion passed: unanimous.

Steve Finch requested that consideration be given to combining the SSA task
group mailing in X3T10.  The chair stated he will investigate the
probability.

11.2  Review of new documents

None.

11.3  Task Set Basis Selection

This item was added to the agenda at the request of the working group to
attempt resolution of this recurring topic.

Ralph Weber moved and Jeff Willams seconded that alternative task set
definitions (Annex A) be removed from SAM.  The motion carried 34:2.

11.4  Delivery Mechanism Sequentiality

Bob Snively moved and Scott Smyers seconded that in-order delivery is not
required by SAM.  The motion carried 32:4.

11.5  SCC Project Proposal

Bob Snively moved and Steve Finch seconded that X3T10 forward the SCSI-3
Controller Commands project proposal (X3T10/94-035r0) with the addition of
X3T11 as liaison) to X3 for further processing.  The motion carried: 47:0:5.

11.6  MMC Project Proposal

Steve Finch moved and Jeff Stai seconded that X3T10 forward the SCSI-3 Multi-
Media Commands project proposal (X3T910/94-036r0) to X3 for further
processing.  The motion carried: 47:0:5.

12.   ISO [Milligan]

Gene Milligan, the acting X3T10 International Representative, provided the
following electronic report:

Gene Milligan TBD.

                             ISO Report
                            January 1994



13.   Liaison Reports

13.1  X3T10.1 Task Group Report [Scheible]

John Scheible TBD.

13.2  X3T9.3 Liaison Report [Cummings]

No Report.

13.3  Small Form Factor Industry Group [Allan]

Dal Allan reported on the recent SFF activities.

The January meeting was held on Monday 1/10 at the Catamaran Hotel.

All documents being balloted passed, and the projects for >528MB and ATAPI 
CD-ROM were approved.

The suggestion that the Unitized Parallel Connector (3-in-1) for Rack 
Applications be dropped was opposed. As a result of the discussion, it was 
agreed that it is important to define the 3 1/2" from factor with the same 
degree of precision as the 2 1/2". 

The call for a leader was met by Jay Neer, who volunteered to lead a SSWG 
which will be held in the first week of February to consider the following:

 - Form factor of 3 1/2" drives
 - Extended form factor of 3 1/2" drives with Unitized Serial Connector
 -     "        "    "   " 2 1/2"    "     "     "      "       "
 -     "        "    "   " 5 1/4"    "     "     "      "       "
 - Placement of Serial Unitized Connector on 2 1/2" drives
 -     "        "    "   "      "       " 3 1/2" drives
 -     "        "    "   "      "       " 5 1/4" drives

An updated revision of the >528MB draft was presented by Hale Landis.

Bill Ham extended the description of the various wiring schemes (22 of 26 
are completed) between unlike connectors. 

ATAPI CD-ROM was distributed shortly before Christmas, and a SSWG will be 
held in late January to address the remaining issues. 

13.4  IEEE P1394 [Marazas]

Scott Smyers reported.  The editing is on going - forwarding is expected in
March '94. Section 7 & 8  still need work.

13.5  IT8 [Lohmeyer]

No report.

13.6  IEEE P1285 Status [Pak]

Scott Smyers TBD.

13.7  PCMCIA Report

No report.

13.8  AIIM C21 [Podio]

No report.

14.   Review of Action Items

1)    John Lohmeyer will contact AIIM regarding AIIM activity.
2)    John Lohmeyer will contact Fernando Podia regarding liaison reports.
3)    Larry Lamers will incorporate the correct patent statement in the dpANS
      AT Attachment and will send a copy to the X3 Secretariat.
4)    On behalf of X3T10, John Lohmeyer will submit a public review comment
      against SPI requesting that SCAM be incorporated.
5)    John Lohmeyer to progress the SCC project proposal to X3.
6)    John Lohmeyer to progress the MMC project proposal to X3.
7)    John Lohmeyer to discuss combined TC/TG mailing with X3 Secretariat.
8)    Gene Milligan to revise project proposal on GPP.
9)    John Lohmeyer to contact X3 Secretariat regarding electronic SDs.

15.   Meeting Schedule

The next plenary meeting of X3T10 will be March 17-18, 1994, in Newport
Beach, CA, at the Hyatt Newporter Hotel (714-729-1234), hosted by QLogic
Corporation.  The meeting will begin at 1:00 pm on Thursday and at 8:30 am
(if necessary) on Friday.

The meeting schedule for the week of March 14-18 in Newport Beach is:
Day & Date       Meeting                             Times
---------------  ----------------------------------  --------------
Sunday 3/13      General Editing Session             1:00p -  5:00p (*)
Monday 3/14      Small Form Factor Committee         9:00a -  1:00p
                 ATA Working Group                   2:00p -  8:00p (*)
                 CAM Working Group                   9:00a -  5:00p (*)
                 FC-Arbitrated Loop                  5:00p -  8:00p
                 P1394 Connector                     1:00p -  6:00p
Tuesday 3/15     SSA UIG                             9:00a -  1:00p
                 X3T9.7 (SSA)                        2:00p -  5:00p
                 SCSI-3 General Working Group        9:00a -  8:00p (*)
                 RAID Study Group                    9:00p -  5:00p (*)
                 Fibre Channel EP/IG Work Group      9:00a -  5:00p
                 Fibre Channel Association           5:00p -  8:00p
Wednesday 3/16   SCSI General Working Group          9:00a -  5:00p (*)
                 Fibre Channel EP & Fabric Serv WG   9:00p -  5:00p
                 FC-LE Edit                          5:00p -  8:00p
                 FC - RT/Navy                        5:00p -  8:00p
Thursday 3/17    SSP (SSA protocol) WG               9:00a - 12:00n (*)
                 X3T10 Plenary Meeting               1:00p -  8:00p (*)
                 Mgt Info Bases (MIBS)               9:00a -  5:00p
                 IPI-3                               8:30a -  2:00p
Friday 3/18      X3T10 Plenary Meeting               8:30a -  2:00p (*)

(*) - Indicates an X3T10-related meeting.  All others are shown for reference 
only and
may be changed by other groups without notice.

Several other X3T10 events are also planned:
Event                           Day/Date  Time      Location/contact
------------------------------- --------- --------- -----------------------
SIP Editing Session             Mon 12/6  9a - 5p   San Diego/Lamers
SBP WG                          TBD                 ?/Marazas
FCP WG                          TBD                 ?/Snively
RAID SG                         Tue 12/7  9a - 5p   San Diego/Penokie
ATA WG                          Dec ?               ?/Finch
ATA WG                          Jan ?               ?/Finch

For more information about X3T10 activities, please contact the following
people:

Activity                     Contact        Telephone/Email
---------------------------- -------------- ------------------------------
CAM Working Group            Bill Dallas    (603) 881-2508
                                            dallas at wasted.enet.dec.com
ATA Working Group            Steve Finch    (714) 573-6808
                                            5723283 at mcimail.com
GPP Working Group            Gary Stephens  (602) 799-2246
                                            gstephen at tucvm2.vnet.ibm.com
RAID Study Group             George Penokie (507) 253-5208
                                            gop at rchvmp3.vnet.ibm.com
SAM Working Group            Charles Monia  (508) 841-6757
                                            monia at starch.enet.dec.com
SBP Working Group            Jerry Marazas  (407) 982-4423
                                            marazas at bcrvmpc2.vnet.ibm.com
SPI Contact                  Larry Lamers   (408) 432-3889
                                            71540.2756 at compuserve.com
SIP Contact                  Larry Lamers   (408) 432-3889
                                            71540.2756 at compuserve.com
SCAM Contact                 Ed Gardner     (719) 548-2247
                                            gardner at ssag.enet.dec.com
Other Activities             John Lohmeyer  (719) 573-3362
                                            john.lohmeyer at ftcollinsco.ncr.com

The long-term X3T10 meeting week schedule is:

Date             Location                  Host/Comments
---------------  ------------------------  --------------------------
Mar 14-18, 1994  Newport Beach, CA         Emulex
May 16-20, 1994  Harrisburg, PA            AMP
Jul 18-22, 1994  Manchester, NH            DEC
Sep 12-16, 1994  Toronto, Canada           Canstar (Location may change!)
Nov 7-11,  1994  Southern California       Western Digital

15.1  Authorization of Working Group Meetings

John noted that the working group meetings are required to operate under the
same voting procedures as does X3T10 (that is, one vote per organization) and
the results of a working group are not binding on the parent committee.  This
later requirement is why we have traditionally only used non-binding straw
polls in working group meetings.  Any issue where the voting rules would make
a difference is automatically deferred to the plenary group.

Jeff Stai moved and Ed Gardner seconded that X3T10 authorize the X3T10-
related meetings and events in the list above.  The motion passed
unanimously.

16.   Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 8:00 p.m. on Thursday January 13, 1994.
                       Meeting Attenders -- Enclosure (1)

         Name          S       Organization         Electronic Mail Address
---------------------- - ------------------------- -------------------------

__ People Present

Status Key:  P   -  Principal
             A   -  Alternate
             O   -  Observer
             L   -  Liaison
             S,V -  Visitor
                    Jan __, 1994 - X3T10 Membership - Enclosure (2)

                Jan __, 1994 - X3T10 Document Register - Enclosure (3)







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