ATA-3 11/30/94 WG Minutes

Gene Milligan Gene_Milligan at
Fri Dec 2 18:58:36 PST 1994

Accredited Standards Committee*
X3, Information Processing Systems
Doc. No.   X3T10/95-101R0
Date:      December 1, 1994
Ref. Doc.:
Reply to:  G. Milligan
To:  Membership of X3T10
From: Lamers/Milligan
Subject: Minutes of X3T10 ATA -3 Working Group  #2 November 30, 1994
1. Openning Remarks 2
2. Attendance and Membership, Introductions 2
3. Approval of Agenda 2
4. Document Distribution 2
5. Review of Action Items 3
6. Old Business 3
6.1 WD Update [Worrell] (94-239r2) 3
6.2 Conner Introduction [Lee] (94-218r0) 3
6.3 Discussion on  Proposals 3
6.4 Secure Mode [McLean] (X3T10/94-087r1) 4
6.5 >16.6 MB/s DMA transfer rates 4
6.6 Reset Pulse Width [Kalish] (94-053r3) 4
6.7 Check Power Mode [McLean] (94-154r0) 4
6.8 PFA Reporting [Colegrove] 4
6.9 Error Detection [Kalish] (94-027r3, 048r1) 4
6.10 Reduced Command Set [Landis] 4
6.11 3.3 Volt Signal Definition [Hanan] 4
6.12 Additional DMA Commands [Landis] 4
7. New Business 4
8. Call for Patents 4
9. Liaison Reports 5
9.1 ATA-2 5
9.2 ATAPI 5
10. Action Items 5
11. Meeting Schedule 5
12. Adjournment  5
1. Opening Remarks
Gene Milligan convened the meeting at 9:30 am.  He thanked Tom Hanan of Western
Digital for hosting the meeting.
He also requested that Larry Lamers take the minutes and thanked him for
accepting the request.
As is customary, the people attending introduced themselves.  A copy of the
attendance list was circulated for
attendance and corrections.
It was stated that the meeting had been authorized by X3T10 and would be
conducted under the X3 rules.  Ad hoc
meetings take no final actions, but prepare recommendations for approval by the
X3T10 task group.  The voting rules
for the meeting are those of the parent committee, X3T10.  For the ad hoc,
other than straw votes, the voting rules  are:
one vote per participating company.
The minutes of this meeting will be posted to the X3T10 BBS and the ATA
Reflector and will be included in the next
X3T10 committee mailing.
2.  Attendance and Membership, Introductions
Attendance at working group meetings does not count toward minimum attendance
requirements for X3T10
membership.  Working group meetings are open to any person or company to attend
and to express their opinion on the
subjects being discussed.
The following people attended the meeting.
Email Address
Lawrence J. Lamers
ljlamers at
Kevin James
kevin.james at
Phil Chan
phil at
Lane Lee
lane.lee at
Hale Landis
landis at
K. C. So
Cypress Semiconductor
kcs at
Dal Allan
dal_allan at
Jeff Epstein
Future Domain
jeffe at
Dan Colegrove
colegrove at
Brad Hosler
bwh at
Pete McLean
pete_mclean at
Ron Roberts
rkroberts at
Steve Timm
stevetim at
Robbie Shergill
National Semiconductor
rss at
Chris DIorio
cd-iorio at
Hide Suzaki
hideaki=suzuki at
Curtis E. Stevens
Phoenix Technologies
curtis_stevens at
Dave Tang
dtang at
Farbod Falakfarsa
Ed Hoskins
ed_hoskins at
Gene Milligan
gene_milligan at
Ron Werbow
ron_werbow at
John Masiewicz
Seagate Technology
masiewicz at
Yas Hashimoto
Devon Worrell
Western Digital
worrell at
Tom Hanan
Western Digital
t_hanan at
3. Approval of Agenda
The agenda was approved as amended and reflected by these minutes.
4.  Document Distribution
94-053r3 Reset Pulse Duration
94-027r3 Error Detection Using Data CRC
94-048r1 Error Detection Using Parity
94-239r2 Presentation on WD Enhanced IDE 95
95-102r0 Proposal for Enhanced IDE 95 Features
Landis  Reflector messages
McLean  Reflector messages
5.  Review of Action Items
1) Gene Milligan to investigate the appropriateness of command queuing in the
ATA-3 project proposal.
 Gene stated that it is not specifically included or excluded.  He recommended
that X3T10 establish an explicit
position to define: command overlap; command overlap and queuing; or neither.
The X3T10 instruction should
include, if something is to be defined, whether the(se) definition(s) should be
included in ATA-3, published as separate
standards, or as technical reports.  The intent is to discuss this at the
1/12/94 meeting to develop a recommendation for
the plenary.
2) Larry Lamers to get document numbers for later inclusion in next minutes.
3) All participants are requested to post existing proposals for ATA-3 on the
ATA reflector.  Continued.
4) All participants to submit ATA-3 proposals for consideration in preliminary
concept form by 11/10 and final
form by January 12, 1995.  Continued.
6. Old Business
6.1 WD Update [Worrell] (94-239r2)
Devon Worrell presented the Western Digital proposal for Enhanced IDE 95.
See 94-239r2.
 add service and DMA ready bits to status register
 uses ATAPI interrupt reason register
 setting DMA or PIO operation requires a write to the features register prior to
 these commands
 uses an open collector shared interrupt that is pulsed (not level sensitive)
 enabling shared interrupts is a concern
 in ATAPI the release function could use hardware acceleration, a timeout for
polling is needed
6.2 Conner Introduction [Lee] (94-218r0)
Lane Lee presented the Conner Command Queuing Proposal.
 using precomp register to transfer queue tag
 addition of host acknowledge , disconnect, command complete and data phase bits
 command codes included for each type of queue tag (but supports consensus for
simple tags only)
 use of multiple block mode for PIO to limit number of interrupts
 proposal should work with existing host hardware
 arbitration using PDIAG and DASP
 the drive needs to drive IRQ when not selected.
 once in data phase the drive owns the task file
 on DMA the amount of data transferred needs to be determined since the drive
can disconnect at any point
 potential fairness issue with the way arbitration is specified
Several  people present voiced support for overlapped operations, but
questioned the need for command queuing.
6.3 Quantum Update If Any [McGrath] (94-)
 Dave Tang said there is no update since the Palm Springs presentation (see
6.4 Discussion of  Proposals
The question arose on how to reach conclusion on a specification for overlapped
commands given the urgency of the
situation. A need was expressed by the host side people present to have
products with this function implemented and
available by the middle of 1995. Dal Allan summarized the need with editing
principally by Brad Hosler, Curtis
Stevens, and Phil Chan as follows:
1) Overlapped commands on ATAPI with ATA-2 disk drives on the same cable
decision and sufficient definition by
February, 1995.
2) Overlapped I/O between two overlapping devices.
3) Independent queuing in drives so that they can share the same cable with o
verlap to an ATAPI device.
 Brad Hosler stated that by far, the number one priority was for number one.
This item was a kickoff for the
1/12/94 agenda item to establish a specific position by X3T10 on command
overlap and queuing in ATA.
6.5 Secure Mode [McLean] (X3T10/94-087r1)
Pete McLean reported that he had received feedback on his six questions as
Should extent locking capability be included?  Yes.
What granularity should be used? Sector boundary.
Dan Colegrove will describe the IBM Think Pad implementation of security in an
email to illustrate the use of the
secure mode.  Essentially it is two 32-byte passwords and an initialization
command to re-format the drive if the
passwords are lost.
6.6 >16.6 MB/s DMA transfer rates
Will there be a mode 3 DMA?  Tom stated that Joe Chen was prepared to re-issue
a proposal on 22 MB/s  .
6.7 Reset Pulse Width [Kalish] (94-053r3)
There were no reflector comments received.  This topic will be voted on for a
recommendation for inclusion in ATA-3
at the January Meeting.
6.8 Check Power Mode [McLean] (94-154r0)
Pete stated that no comments were received.  This topic will be voted on for a
recommendation for inclusion in ATA-3
at the January Meeting.
6.9 PFA Reporting [Colegrove]
Dan Colegrove stated that a bit will be proposed to indicate predictive
failures.  A bit in IDENTIFY DRIVE data to
indicate this capability.  The re-use of vendor-specific needs the addition of
a revision level string in the IDENTIFY
DRIVE data.
6.10 Error Detection [Kalish] (94-027r3, 048r1)
There was little support for this from this group.  A vote will be taken on
whether or not error detection will be part of
the ATA-3 development effort at the January meeting.
6.11 Reduced Command Set [Landis/Hanan]
Hale said his proposal would postulate the use of a single drive in a simple
system that reduces the firmware.  These
drives are used in dedicated applications (i.e., test equipment, game machines,
etc.) that do not need the complexity.
The Chair concluded from his description that his proposal would be given room
on an agenda when requested, but
most likely should be a project unto itself.
Tom Hanan and Devon Worrell indicated that the reduced command set they listed
at Palm Springs was actually going
to be an ATAPI set and they head decided not to propose this for ATA-3.
6.12 3.3 Volt Signal Definition [Hanan]
This will be deferred to ATA-4.
6.13 Additional DMA Commands [Landis]
The aim is have a DMA only data transfer system.  These are for the commands
that are not read or write but transfer
data. The Chair reminded Hale of the 1/12/94 deadline.
7. New Business
7.1 DSC Bit [Landis]
Hale Landis commented on the drive seek complete bit (DSC).  He recommends that
it should be a copy of  the drive
ready bit.  The problem is the coordination of the ATA-2 document with the
intended use in ATA-3. The ATA-3 group
had no objection to his proposal for this bit in ATA-2.
7.2 Version Indication
Discussion of what proposals were going into ATA-2, ATA-3, and perhaps ATA-4
led to a discussion of the fact that
Gene Milligan had proposed a set of procedures for X3T10 which required the
inclusion of a version capability. Gene
agreed to submit a proposal for this capability in ATA-3.
8. Call for Patents
Gene Milligan requested that anyone aware of any patents required for the
proposals be disclosed early in accordance
with the ANSI patent policy.
Prior minutes have already identified some patents and those have letters
offering access to licenses. Gene asked if the
PFA proposal would require any IBM patents and Dan Colegrove agreed to pursue
that possibility.
9. Liaison Reports
9.1 ATA-2
Tom Hanan reported that a number of editorial refinements in SFF 8029 were
concluded.  A SFF 8020 revision 2.0 that
includes the SFF 8029 errata document is being prepared.  Some global changes
in style will also be made.  The host
related issues will continue to be dealt with in SFF.  A series of documents
will be developed to address these issues.
The enhancements in the QIC 157 document will be incorporated in one of these
new series of documents.
10. Action Items
1) All participants are requested to post existing proposals for ATA-3 on the
ATA reflector.
2) All participants to submit ATA-3 proposals for consideration in preliminary
concept form by 11/10 and final
form by January 12, 1995.
3) Prepare and submit version indication proposal - Milligan
11. Meeting Schedule
January 12, 1995 at Stateline, NV.  Host: Silicon Systems.
February 16, 1995 - Host TBD
March 9, 1995 at Newport Beach, CA.  Host: Qlogic Corp.
April 13, 1995 - Host TBD
May 11, 1995 at Harrisburg, CA.  Host: AMP, Inc.
June 22, 1995 - Host TBD
12. Adjournment
The meeting adjourned at  5:00 PM on November 30, 1994.
*Operating under the procedures of The American National Standards Institute.
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Telephone: 202-737-8888 (Press 1 twice) FAX: 202-638-4922 or 202-628-2829
Minutes of ATA-3 Working Group - 11/30/94 X3T10/95-101r0
Gene Milligan -- Gene_Milligan at
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